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Posts: 121

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Q: The 100 days crack down is a big disrespect to the foreigner??

11 years 44 weeks ago in  Arts & Entertainment - Beijing

 
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Not for me it isnt.  It is a pain in  the neck having to carry the whole passport all the time, and they make the covers of such crappy material that it starts to frey. Then Homeland Sec busts my chops because the passport looks ratty.

But, I do believe that all countries have the right to decide who will enter and who will not and for them to take appropriate action to those who do not enter by legal means or overstay, be it here or be it back home.

So, to answer your question, no.

HappyExPat:

Go to an office supply shop and buy a small plastic bag like a zip-lock and keep passport inside. For less than 5 yaun your passport will remain in good condition, less wear and tear

11 years 44 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

Thanks!

 I will do that!

11 years 44 weeks ago
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fredrikappelgren:

Why keep the passport on you? You just need copies of it on you, at least according to all the embassy's.

11 years 44 weeks ago
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From my point of view, it is not.  And basically it is because of two reasons :

 

1.- Foremost, I am a guest here.  This is not my country, so they have the perfect right to set whatever rules they want for foreigners to follow, and us have the perfect right to follow them or if in disagreement with any, leave.  They are cracking down on illegal immigrants, illegal workers, etc.  If I am stopped, and I show my passport and Registration of Temporary residence by visitor's form, within 5 minutes I am free to go.  So, in what way is that disrespectful ?.

 

2.- Since I enjoy, value and respect China, I always comply with its Laws and regulations.

So, if asked to provide my passport and required documentation, I have no problem doing so.  I do not work illegally, I do not overstay my visa, so I have no wporrie at all.

kchur:

And if they started profiling Chinese in the States, would any of that fly?

11 years 44 weeks ago
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aroberts42:

Exactly kchur. If this happened in the states, people would be furious and fight back, just like people are railing against laws like this in Arizona. It isn't OK and it should bother you. It is racism. It is wrong. Sure, there isn't anything I can do to change the law or stop it, but I can at least do more than sit back and say "yeah, it's ok to be discriminated against because of the color of my skin."

11 years 44 weeks ago
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nevermind:

It DID happen in the US, in Arizona they started trying it with Mexicans.

11 years 44 weeks ago
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HugAPanda:

Ok... in the states we fight back. Yaa us! Who's going to fight back in China? Ai Wei... imprisoned for a couple of months, if I remember correctly, without being charged, for speaking out for human rights. The blind dude who was a prisoner in his own home with his family for speaking out against the one child law. The one child law.  T-sq. If you want change in China, it is going to have to be the chinese people who stand up. And they don't. Most of them are disinterested in causing drama, or being shot or locked up and beat. All any outsider can do is support the Chinese people, teach them, show them how, and hope they dont get killed for fighting back.

 

The US and other.. civilized countries, have laws and protections built in to give us certain freedoms and human rights.  China has laws strictly forbidding freedoms and squashing human rights.  5000 years of history has only taught them to do as they are told. And with no outside influence how are they supposed to know any different. The US wasn't built overnight. It's still far from perfect. 

 

They have to WANT to make the changes, we as outsiders cant force it on them. The Chinese have way to many things to worry about fixing. IDing foreigners... low on the list darlin.  

11 years 44 weeks ago
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crimochina:

aroberts and kchur you 2 are missing 1 point. usa and china has different laws. there are no human rights in china. they treat their own worse, remember that. if "something" was going down amongst chinese they would do the same to chinese. also in usa you cant profile immigrants because we all look like immigrants. the 100 day crackdown is nothing compared to what they do to each other. example: in hohhot when a heavy truck ran over a mongolian protester. there was a thought that people will gather and protest. so they banned all the students( in the city ) from leaving the school. imagine not being allowed to leave the campus for 1 week. remember where we are.

11 years 44 weeks ago
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JSHunter:

It seems a lot of people are overlooking the fact that China is a homogeneous culture. It isn't racist to assume that a white or black person is a foreigner here; they are foreigners. There is no comparison to the situation in the USA.

11 years 44 weeks ago
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Mr_spoon:

JShunter has a point. The current U.S are made of almost only foreigners (historically).

Europe is getting used to foreigners accepted them, but it wasn't that easy at first (and even now, people are often more racist than they try to make you believe)

11 years 42 weeks ago
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11 years 44 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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While every country has the right to say who can and cannot enter the country, it is the method that is the problem. Simply stopping people on the street who look like foreigners and demanding to see their passport is wrong. In the states we call it "racial profiling" and it is racism, plan and simple.

 

I admit, I'm not too vocal about the issue because I don't live in Beijing and I don't plan on visiting any time soon so basically it doesn't affect me, but I should be (as should all foreigners). If I lived there, the hassle of having to carry my passport, the dangers of carrying my passport (such a high risk of it getting lost or stolen),  and the inconvenience of being stopped randomly or multiple times would get very old very quickly. Not to mention the bad press this gives China for treating tourists this way during peak travel season seems like a bad PR move. Also what is stopping this policy from spreading to all the tier 1 cities, and then the tier 2's? 

 

So, long story short - yes it is offensive.

HappyExPat:

In many States in USA anyone looking "Latino" gets stopped and papers are checked. And if no papers, held until papers show up, or handed over to Immigration for deportation procedures. Did you find that objectionable too ?. Once more, it is my choice to do as told, or leave. And the excuse not to carry passport because it could be stolen is a very poor one. Do you go out to the street every day pennyless ?. Your money could be stolen. Do you leave your purse or bag at home too because it could be stolen ?. I have an under shirt belly money bag. I have my passport there inside a plastic bag to prevent damage from sweat, also my registration form as required. I have been coming or living in China since 1997, and no one has stolen my passport yet. Nor my money.

11 years 44 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

I get stopped in the States too (Hispanic-Latino) and I dont mind it at all.

11 years 44 weeks ago
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aroberts42:

Of course I find the racial profiling of Latinos offensive. What, you think just because I am American I think everything America does is OK? I'm not a hypocrite. Many people are highly offended by the racial profiling of Latinos in the states and I don't appreciate being treated like an illegal while living in another country myself.

11 years 44 weeks ago
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aroberts42:

As for the passport "not getting stolen", well lucky you. I know women who have had their small bags right up against their bodies and still had things stolen out of them. And having your money stolen is a little less serious than losing your passport. And I don't carry much money with me just to be safe. In most other countries they don't require you to carry your passport with you, just an ID card. China should issue ID cards to people with resident visas (like Hong Kong)  just to keep our passports safe. 

 

Long story short, just because you think racism is OK and doesn't bother you doesn't mean it is right. Your passivism is just as dangerous as the laws are in the firstplace.

11 years 44 weeks ago
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FruitIsGood:

I've heard multiple times that a US passport has about a 10K RMB street value HappyExpat. I don't think talking about being penniless on your daily outings and carrying a 10K RMB item are quite the same.  :(

11 years 44 weeks ago
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HugAPanda:

"your passivism is just as dangerous...?" What activism have you actively participated in? Bitching about it on a website? WOW... I'm impressed. You stated it didnt concern you because you werent in Beijing. You're not only narrow-minded passive, but you're a hypocrite as well. You go Rosa Parks! Stand up for what you believe in.

11 years 44 weeks ago
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Posts: 1989

Peasant

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No , i don't think so its disrespect to foreigners because every country got their own rules and regulations and they are jus cleaning those who are illegal in china and china got this right to clean those who are illegal here so i don't think its disrespect to foreigners

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11 years 44 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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That crackdown really shamed me. I'm devastated.

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What it is is useless. Checking some random foreigner on the street and seeing he has an L visa means nothing. Unless the cops KNOW that he is also working with that visa what is the point? 

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Ueless or not, it's their country, they make the rules and visitors need to abide by them. Perhaps their isn't enough crime to keep the Police busy, so they needed something for them to do or whatever. 

aroberts42:

Saying "it is their country" doesn't make it OK. Men are also allowed to beat their wives here with no threat of the law. Is that OK because it is "their country?" 

11 years 44 weeks ago
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HugAPanda:

I absolutely agree that it isnt ok to beat your... wife/gf/husband/child/parent/dog. It's never ok. But you are in a country that does accept it. Work to change it if you want. 

 

However, the topic is checking foreigners' IDs to make sure they are legally there. If they want to do that, they absolutely have that right. Every country in the world has that right. If you want to be in a country, it should be done legally, and if you aren't legal, then you need to get out. If you need a little help... then so be it. 

 

Look at it like this... you're there legally (I'm guessing). You've paid your visa fees, you've registered your residence, or whatever you particularly have to do, you found a job you are working at legally. You are good to go because you've done everything correct. Now... lets use yaya as an example. Yaya's Visa is expired for 4 months, he's working, but his (expired) Visa is a tourist Visa, and he's not bothered to make the painstaking trip to get registered. Should he be allowed to skate by? How else is he going to get caught? Illegals cost any government money that, especially in this economic fiasco, they can be spending on the good for their on people. 

If that's how China chooses to fix it, then goooo China. If you don't like it, you can go home, or stand up against it. Good luck with that too. You are not in the states You are in China. You can't expect racism to disappear over night. They ask for white faces for employment in many instances.

11 years 44 weeks ago
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Aroberts. 

You see mountains out of ant hills.  And to call me a "racist" is just plain BS.  And last, to clism "if this would happen in the states ....." just indicates how far off reality you exist.  This has happened in USA, and almost in any country on this Earth forf centuries.  Discrimination of majorities towards minorities happens everywhere, every day.  And I have suffered it,

When was the last time you filled an application within the USA  ? .   Have you noticed where they ask your "RACE" that they list a bunch of selections that bears no relationship to any recognized race ?.  Race is caucasian, not white, not hispanic minority, not Latino, not anglo-mexican, etc.

Read the news and you will see profiling done every day within USA and many other countries. 

The target of this crackdown is all foreigners, not only US Citizens.  If it was directed only to US citizens then I would be offended and feel real bad, and will make noise about it.  But it is directed to those breaking the Laws and Regulations of China, and ALL FOREIGNERS, and that is within their rights as a country.  So, I am not offended if asked for my papers.  But if I am handcuffed, placed in a patrol car, taken to jail for several days, and then asked for my passport, I will be very pissed !.

And yes, some get their passport stolen, but it is because they are careless.  Men may carry it in their back pockets, women in their purses.  But if you know that a thief will automatically go for that, why do it ?.  I do know many foreigners here who have carried their passports with them for years, and none had it stolen.  But they came up with clever ways of doing it to avoid pickpockets. 

And the very few that I know who lost it or got it stolen, in less than a month and with a few kuai they had a new one.

aroberts42:

If you think racial profiling is OK, then you are racist. Period. 

 

Also, read what I said. I said it does happen in the states (specifically, I mentioned AZ in regards to Latinos) and I also said it wasn't OK. You are the one supporting these racist laws, not me. 

 

No wonder you are a "HappyExPat." You live in your own fantasy world where everything China does is all right and dandy because the rest of us simply don't understand their ways. Time for you to get real and wake-up.

11 years 44 weeks ago
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fredrikappelgren:

Time for you to grab that passport of yours and go to the airport and book a 1 way ticket home?

11 years 44 weeks ago
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crimochina:

sweety why do you keep saying it's racial profiling??? this is not usa. this is china. every citizen in china is of asian race. (99.9%)  so if they see a white guy they already know he is not a citizen and therefore a foreigner. so they have reasonable cause to request id.  

11 years 44 weeks ago
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11 years 44 weeks ago
 
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This is not quite the same , but when I was young (I'm white) I could pretty much count  that any cop that saw me would pull me over to check me out, then probably give me a ticket for something I didn't do. Then I started running them, they quit bothering me after awhile. Moral of the story, never drive anything stock. 

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11 years 44 weeks ago
 
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Here's something lacking respect:

 

http://english.sina.com/z/20120516foreigner/index.shtml

 

English Sina actually made a website specifically dedicated for 'decent foreigners'. This is really getting out of hand.

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11 years 44 weeks ago
 
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Its like most countries .....follow our laws .....if you don't like it leave    at least here they don't force you to speak the language  here    stop whinnying so big deal you have to carry your Passport.....how hard is that......................

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11 years 44 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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"Foreigners entering and exiting the Chinese mainland in 2010 totaled 52.11 million, a 133 percent increase on 2001. The number last year was 54.12 million"

 

So in the last few weeks we have had a attempted rape (if true throw the book at this tool in the same way that you would for a local who bashes and sexually assaults his wife) and the heinous crime of a pissed cellist putting his feet on a seat back and dropping a few F Bombs. 

 

And from that we get to.

 

"Foreign scumbags should go back to their countries. China is not the place for them to do everything they want,"

 

and

 

"The public security bureau wants to clean out the foreign trash. To arrest foreign thugs and protect innocent girls, they need to focus on the disaster areas of Wudaokou (a student area) and Sanlitun (a bar area). Cut off the traffickers, including those who can't find jobs in the US and Europe that come to China to take money, engage themselves in human trafficking and illegal immigration. Identify foreign spies, who live with Chinese women while collecting intelligence and GPS information for Japan, South Korea, the United States and European countries while holding a tourist visa. That foreign bitch has been expelled and closed Al-Jazeera's Beijing bureau. We should kick out those who demonize China."

 

Some people and I hope it is only a small minority in China really do lack logic. 

 

Would love to compare the crime figures per 50 million Chinese nationals to that of 50 million foreign nationals. I know which one I would put my money on to come out the better behaved. 

 

  

 

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11 years 44 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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crack down on what?

 

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11 years 42 weeks ago
 
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Yes, it is offensive if it's done on the streets - and not in a suspected illegal workplace. Random checks on the streets is insulting and disrespectful... if it's done in a school or similar to crackdown on those working illegally, then fine - cos that's what it's  supposed to be about!

 

Happy - the argument of "this is their country, we should follow their rules" is BS!!! Now, normally, in most countries, I wouldn't say that... but TIC - where it seems following the law is immoral. That person checking your passport... pay a few hundred kuai, and you're ok. The guy in immigration - give him a nice bottle of wine, and you get your passport renewed... that politician? It's MANDATORY that s/he be corrupt to get to where they are.

 

So, expecting someone to respect the laws of a country that virtually NO-ONE in that country does is complete BS!!! Why should I be expected to follow the laws of the country when they don't?

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11 years 42 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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They should have planned stings and make it look cool.

 

Getting stopped on the street may cause some commotion,,, why would they want that?........ oh wait.

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11 years 41 weeks ago
 
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It could be disrespectful if police 'abused' the intent and began walking about demanding every foreigner quickly satisfied the paperwork, even on any street corner at any time. 

But this doesn't seem to be the case. They aren't running around Tiananmen square demanding instant ID from everyone or going door-to-door through hotels. 

However, I DO understand how they might need to simply (and politely) start double-checking people who give some reason for inquiry. An African who has been in a market selling goods for a very long time. Western 'back-packers' who appear to have been traveling for quite a few months.

               And it can be done politely and without 'hassle'. Give them easy time to deliver documents should they have none on their person. 

Wise police are also helpful to say something like this "Excuse us, we are just doing some safety checks as the 'routine' now.".

No, I do not feel disrespected in that case. (maybe if it happens daily I'd be annoyed) but China has every right to maintain its borders, set its rules of visitation and also deport those who have over-stayed visas. 

Masahiro:

There's a reason they don't do it in Tiananmen: they don't want to piss off tourists. If travelers in China come back home and complain about this, less people will be coming. Less tourists means less money.

11 years 41 weeks ago
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jknox00:

Heh yes I agree Masahito, of course they don't want to frighten away tourism. So far, I haven't heard any stories of western foreign teachers or even any 'backpackers' being hassled over this.

*even some of the backpacker types who, without any bad intentions, tend to overstay visas (or be very loose with the rules).

       My guess? This is something more aimed at Africans simply trying to live in China, perhaps the 'shady businessmen' types who seem to come and go, appear, wander with 'unclear' business. Possibly those appearing in Muslim areas (or Tibet?) who might be 'unhelpful'?

 

*btw: Don't tell anyone but TWICE I have over-stayed my visitor visa and once went outside my declared routes. But just by 'happenstance' and forgetfulness and not for any negative reasons. But nobody asked or cared or mentioned it either. 

11 years 41 weeks ago
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11 years 41 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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its really not they have an obligation to up hold the laws of their country unlike the us where illigals are filling the welfare lines prisons and hospitols

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