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Posts: 369

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Q: 5000 RMB for a living in Shenzhen, is that normal?

Helen Group is offering this  for a contract with some "great favors" added to the contract. This is their replying to my concern:

"Dear Mr...

I am glad to hear from you.
I understand your concerns and totally agree with what you have said.
It is not a heavy work as all the kindergartens are public.
It is common the public schools won't have too much wokload in China so the salary is not as high as some other private schools.
The accommodation is provided by us and is within 10 minutes walking distance from the kindergarten.
If you get on well with the kindergarten, they will provide you free work meal.
If not, the work meal won't cost more than 8 RMB per meal.
The daily expenditure won't exceed 1000RMB when you work there.
The salary is not the highest but it is almost 2.5 times of local standard.
So I think it's reasonable and is decent.
How do you feel about?"

 

I was thinking to post it on this forum with the hope to get some experienced insight from you, about the costs in Shenzhen. I know such salary is small for a 1st tier city, but in the way the employer puts it I can't resist to ask for some opinions.

Your opinion is very much appreciated. I know one of the user on this forum has already had a bad experience with this Company. Still, I want to personally ask you about it.

9 years 35 weeks ago in  Business & Jobs - China

 
Answers (14)
Comments (30)
Posts: 3837

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The salary is low, but about normal for a public school.

definitely not a good salary for a tier 1 city

The thing to remember about public schools is that they don't tell you about all the other activities you will be expected to take part in, for the benefit of the parents, usually they will tell you at the last minute about them.

it is laughable to see that your meals will be based on performance - a bit like a zoo animal :

"If you get on well with the kindergarten, they will provide you free work meal.

If not, the work meal won't cost more than 8 RMB per meal."

local teachers might be on a lower salary, but they get bonuses and hong-bao's to make up for it.

I think another poster mentioned that the actual overheads for agents is minimal, so they are the ones profiting big-time.

the answer you received is suitable vague: if you were to pursue with this offer, you would want many more things spelt out clearly in the contract

 

JacobJohn:

I understand the part about the public school but no way that the job is easy because of this status. I've worked and very much enjoyed it, in a kindergarten. Easy, it's never been such thing at all. It was very much rewarding in the way children would answer to my endeavor and made the very many things I didn't like about the way they were educated by the Chinese nurses, much more bearable. I could not even call the so called teachers as teachers. Yelling nurses, leading animals rather than children.This is how I would see them and I would repeat to myself seeing how they would treat the toddlers. I many time found repeating myself that they were animals instead of teachers.

Thanks Sorrel for your comment. I have rejected it anyway. I happen to have a sort of deja vu with this offer. When I first came to China, I was given a 5500 RMB salary for a teaching position in a kindergarten. I asked my agent whether this is an acceptable salary for that place. She ensure me in the same way and with the same arguments, that i will be comfortable and most of it that I am paid twice and more the salary above my Chinese counterpart. I was very much duped by her and I remember a whole year of miserable poverty, unable to buy new clothing on the Winter time. That was in a very small city I rather not mention it. Imagine this in Shenzhen. Later on, the owner of the kindergarten disclosed that she pays my agent 7000 RMB every month for my job. That's a lesson to learn from it.

9 years 35 weeks ago
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sorrel:

good luck with where-ever you end up.

remember to have everything spelt out clearly in the contract: if there is any wriggle-room for your employer, they will use it against you. 

9 years 35 weeks ago
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JacobJohn:

Thank you very much again Sorrel.

9 years 35 weeks ago
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9 years 35 weeks ago
 
Posts: 916

Shifu

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5,000RMB a month? I'd ditch this job and go for another. In Shenzhen, this amount of money means you have to live a life of a hermit, well almost. But you will certainly be unable to afford the weekly bar sessions, REAL food etc. you won't get to save much either. And, working for Helen Group.....well, do a search on this forum and you may find lots of news and advice from people who have been with them before. Good luck! 

JacobJohn:

I felt a sort of despise going out of this agent's email. It is humiliating i fyou see through it, that a meal would be such a great deal base on how you're acting...or based on your behavior and so on. It's just inappropriate to try to "bribe" an English teacher with such thing. I rejected the offer anyway. Thanks Louis!

9 years 35 weeks ago
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louischuahm:

winkNo worries Jacob! If you can, stay away from recruiters. They'll scam you at every opportunity. Good luck on your job search! 

9 years 35 weeks ago
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9 years 35 weeks ago
 
Posts: 544

Shifu

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I would say to ditch it too.

 

Sorrel is spot on about the vagueness. The problem is that you're getting a lot of weasel words in there. 

 

"It is not a heavy work as all the kindergartens are public.

It is common the public schools won't have too much wokload in China so the salary is not as high as some other private schools."

 

What do they mean by "not a heavy work"? 20 hours? 30? 40? Will they ask for any extra work, unpaid and outside fo normal working hours?

 

"If you get on well with the kindergarten, they will provide you free work meal."

 

What is "get on well"? They can easily decline to provide a free meal, but saying that you didn't "get on well". They also didn't say when they would provide the meal. Also, what is the quality of the meal? It's not much of a deal if they let you have a bowl of overcooked rice, and tasteless vegetables at a school canteen with... creative interpretation of hygine standards. 

 

If they do not give solid, concrete, and specific, details in the contract, they're not trustworthy. 

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9 years 35 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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I've been told to stay away from Helen Group. She will charge the school 10k and pay you 5k and later scam you.

 

Helen Group are blacklisted amongst my circle.

 

PM me if you want more info.

 

expatlife26:

The only men with the moral authority to blacklist anyone are the heros at the China Foreign Teachers Union or CFTU. YOU cannot blacklist anyone, either recant your statement or we'll blacklist you! Good luck going to heaven then!

9 years 35 weeks ago
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ahopkins767:

MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!

 

Hell ain't bad enough for me..

 

I shall never surrender!!!! :P

9 years 34 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

Unacceptable! Soon you will be visited by members of The Leader's Secret Police who will guide you through The Cleansing. Then you will be off the CFTU blacklist. Or you can join up! Join the CFTU today and get a free hooded robe and tote bag!

9 years 34 weeks ago
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ahopkins767:

The hooded robe sounds good...

 

Is it full length?

9 years 34 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

No answers until you undergo The Cleansing. Until then you are an enemy of the CFTU and would likely be spayed or castrated if you joined as a full member.

9 years 34 weeks ago
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ahopkins767:

Too bad. :(

9 years 34 weeks ago
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9 years 35 weeks ago
 
Posts: 3494

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Consider going to a smaller city.  My friend was getting 12000 at a kindergarten in Qingdao but he was doing a lot of hours.  I'm getting 9000 at a middle school and I'm doing very few hours.

 

ScotsAlan:

That's because your students are under curfew .

 

9 years 35 weeks ago
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royceH:

Not yet Scotty.  In fact, life is as free here as anywhere else.  And more interesting.  Just no email.  Or radio.

9 years 35 weeks ago
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JacobJohn:

Royce, I love the small cities too. Big cities in China are not healthy for me. In a small city I find more happiness and comfort, if I may say so. Although Shenzhen is next to HK, with this amount of money, I won't be able to to even cross the street. I refused the offer.

9 years 35 weeks ago
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9 years 35 weeks ago
 
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5K a month is way too low for Shenzhen.

 

No way will a Shenzhen girl wait 6 months for anyone to save up to buy her an IPad.

JacobJohn:

hahahahahaah ScotsAlan, you made me laugh. Now, my dreams of getting one are vanished away, dusted in the wind. Oh my!

9 years 35 weeks ago
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Posts: 2878

Shifu

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Way too low. And in a place where there are nice places to eat too.

No way to be happy on that.

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9 years 35 weeks ago
 
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Shenzhen is the second most expensive city in China after Shanghai and before Beijing (except for real estate where Beijing is much more expensive), 5000RMB is enough if you don't party, don't hang out in bars, don't do anything but eating local food and staying in your home after work and on the weekend, you will be able to buy some acceptable quality clothes every months and then all of your money will be gone.

 

Shenzhen has many great places to eat, hang out, have fun, and it's very tempting to spend money in this city, I doubt that you will ever be satisfied with 5000RMB/month.

 

What you can do is to ask them if the contract allows you to get another job or to give private lessons on your own, if so then you can make more than people who teach 40H/week in training centers while working half the time. However public schools are definitely where you will get the best pay/hour in China, you will earn more in total in private schools and training centers but you will also work many more hours and when calculating your hourly wage will be much lower.

JacobJohn:

Eorthisio, thank you very much for your detailed comment. I have already said no to the offer. I hope I will get something better.  It is gone anyway but the agent is  willing to keep in touch.

9 years 35 weeks ago
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One must assume that your OP is rhetorical!

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9 years 35 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Helen group .... don't  even ask questions if  you  hear this name , just run. sad

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You COULD live for that money. But that would make you officially the lowest paid teacher in Shenzhen. But on the bright side, they may give you a plaque.

Also, 2.5 times the local living wage is a sham. My untrained lazy factory workers make minimin 3 a month. Most in shenzhen make comparable or more. Anyone, new to china or not, who feels their salary is fair because its double what a factory worker makes deserves to get screwed.

As a rule, kindergarten teachers get offered more than other positions because you gotta wipe asses.

In Shenzhen, anything less than 10 plus accomodation and you have been screwed.

expatlife26:

Yeah definitely comparing to a % of a local wage is a stupid argument they make cause chumps fall for it.

 

Its not even true either...maybe a fresh graduate might have to settle for 2-3K to start with but if they have even a tiny bit of ability they'll be up past that 5K in a couple of years easy.

 

The labor market for westerners is completely different from unskilled 3rd world laborers. You're paid based on your expected contribution to revenue/mandated requirements and your bargaining power. 

9 years 35 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

though Mike, to be fair I think the lowest salaries in China are in bullshit non-labor jobs like store clerk and hey maybe assistant teacher at a kindergarten.

 

tons of college grads whose braindead parents will flip out if they work in a factory. pushes factory wages up and unskilled "white collar" down.

 

at least thats my thought on it...you work in manufacturing so im sure you know better than me

9 years 35 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

I'd hold 12.5k as the average. I said no to 20k/10 months contracts in the big coastal cities. Taxes, cost of living and pollution are also factors. Though since most don't have a small county school that's earning more income as long as they are nearby to make appearances, deduct 5k from that. 15k is an acceptable coastal city salary. Salaries under 12.5k are below the norm.

9 years 35 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

Coin I think youre really overestimating the cost of living in big cities. There are tons of fresh grads who flock there, there ARE cheap eating/housing options, decent ones too if you're willing to live close to the end of a subway line

 

The only difference of a big city is you have more options. You see rents like 10-20K online and freak out but those are for really nice places in good locations. You don't HAVE to live like that its just the option is available. You want to live in a local style concrete blockhouse a bit further out it's still affordable

 

If you're comparing 20K in a 1st tier city vs. 12K somewhere else you can definitely come out ahead with the 20K by a mile.

 

You just have to be able to resist the temptation to eat something expensive every night and be willing to deal with a 1hr commute. but once a week you and your family can have a nice western meal.

9 years 35 weeks ago
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mike695ca:

totally agree with expat. Turning down 20K because larger cities is more expensive seems a little foolish.  The cost of living is no where near double, unless you want it to be. 

 

If you make 10K in say changsha, and 20K in Shenzhen, your definatly going to come out ahead in Shenzhen.  

 

I also agree that people see the rentals on websites and freak out.  No one would pay that much.  Its just a matter of location. City center, you can choose a great location and either A pay more or B deal with a less than perfect apartment.  Or you can go just a little bit further away and get both.  If you are paying 1800 for a nice apartment in say Chongqing,  your going to pay around 3-4 for that depending on location in a top tier city. Well under the 10K extra your making.  Food is negligible. 

9 years 35 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Well, you guys aren't privy to my expenses and income. I'm able to get around 15k total income from all my activities, without all the hassle of big city taxes and utilities. Locals are a bit too curious, but they aren't aggressively out to scam me like inner city Chinese - I saw those in Chengdu. My apartment is owned by a guy from my wife's village, so costs are guaranteed to go up once I stray far from my family's guanxi network. Those Biology teaching jobs in Nanjing/Shanghai/Tianjin did come out on top, enableing me to save just under 2k/month more than I do currently, but that wasn't worth it considering my 2nd baby is on the way. My family can't relocate until the house and school are sold, and that takes time. Yes, you can save a lot in city jobs, but some people also have high family expenses. ;-)

9 years 35 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

Yeah Coin if your goal is to save more $ for your family, you should definitely think about it.

 

however you're living out in the country you can live the same way in a big city for only a little bit more and have WAY more savings. Nobodies gonna be holding a gun to your head saying you gotta live in a luxury CBD high rise and drink 50RMB beers every night, you can still grab a tsingtao on the corner for a few kuai.

 

If you go from 2K to 4K in rent...maybe spend a few hundred RMB more on food. You're still banking an extra 5K a month and that adds up..

9 years 35 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

Yeah i'm not sure exactly what the difference in tax would be.

 

What kinda scams are you worried about? Like getting ripped off on the rent or something? In the daily grind of going to work and getting food you don't have to interact with anyone let alone get scammed by them.

 

But hey, you're happy where youre at that what's important.

9 years 35 weeks ago
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9 years 35 weeks ago
 
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Does this actually say: "The daily expenditure won't exceed 1000RMB when you work there."???

 

So, your 5000/month would last 5 days??

 

WTF?

 

Everyone else has said what needs to be said..

expatlife26:

i saw that too...I don't get what they are going for there.

 

It doesn't add up as a typo either cause they're saying you can eat for 8 RMB.

 

Even if they meant 100 that's still not a great sales pitch..."Hey you'll only be spending 60% of your wages on food!"

9 years 35 weeks ago
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JacobJohn:

Hi Shining! Yes, that's exactly what the agent told me. I don't even understand why would that be a value in itself enough to keep the salary this low. Is like saying: "Hey that place is so poor that even if you want to spend more, there's nothing worthy to spend on it."  Hellooooo, it's Shenzhen! I don't know what was in the agent's mind. He was just trying to find some innocent victim. Maybe, ... maybe not!

9 years 35 weeks ago
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Ask Qs about your apartment and many other things, before you sign the Contract.

 

Helen is good company as visa sponsor!Only! 

After one returns from HK, it is easy to quit, because Helen doesn't respect Contract. You just need new sponsor/school for extension of Helen's RPermit.

 

There are few treads here about my dealings with Helen.

 

I sent them CV few weeks ago for job in Hangzhou Public Middle School with 10000 Rmb monthly salary, and 16 classes/week.

However, Helen sent me reply demanding my apology, before they are ready to show me the Contract.

 

Shining_brow:

?? HUH?

 

What do you mean an 'apology'? for what??

9 years 35 weeks ago
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JacobJohn:

Hey inif77, thank you for your comment. I know you had some problems with Helen Group so thought you will share your experience too. So, did they really apologized to you? Well, that's something good from Helen Group. Are you going to work with them again?  

9 years 35 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Helen sent me an email two weeks ago, demanding apology for 'our' dealings (Hangzhou SAFEA) in 2012. Helen violated Contract, so I resigned through SAFEA (and kept RPermit).

Now, I was looking for new position, and they demanded apology, before they would send me a Contract.

I deleted that email on GOOG, so I cannot c &p. I can't even open my Gmail. 

9 years 34 weeks ago
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9 years 35 weeks ago
 
Posts: 921

Shifu

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Sorry to be rough, but...... coming to CHINA, to WORK IN CHINA, for CHINESE, for 5k a month, in 2014??

You're just missing to shovel yourself a broom up your arse to sweep their floor too....

 

 

JacobJohn:

hahahaha LOL

9 years 35 weeks ago
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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77