The place to ask China-related questions!
Beijing Shanghai Guangzhou Shenzhen Chengdu Xi'an Hangzhou Qingdao Dalian Suzhou Nanjing More Cities>>

Categories

Close
Welcome to eChinacities Answers! Please or register if you wish to join conversations or ask questions relating to life in China. For help, click here.
X

Verify email

Your verification code has been sent to:

Didn`t receive your code? Resend code

By continuing you agree to eChinacities's Privacy Policy .

Sign up with Google Sign up with Facebook
Sign up with Email Already have an account? .
Posts: 470

Governor

2
2
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
4

Q: Acupuncture - do you have any experience with it?

Today I tried acupuncture.
After implementing the needles the pain more or less disappeared. When taking them out the pain returned but smaller then before.
In my country the official science believes acupuncture has no effect. My today's experience shows there is the effect (I do not believe it was just placebo effect).

Did you or some of your friends try acupuncture? If yes then with what outcome?
If not is it because there was so far no reason or you would never try it?

8 years 45 weeks ago in  Health & Safety - Other cities

 
Highest Voted
Posts: 3501

Emperor

2
2
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

Yes, I've given it a fair go.  I have an inflammatory illness that has retarded me for 6 or 7 years.

NSAIDS have come and gone as my mobility has steadily decreased.  

Since being in China I've had a crack at acupuncture from a practitioner,  an orthopedic doctor and finally a TCM / orthopedic professor.

Treatment has involved some pretty out there wacko type stuff.  

All did their best (presumably) and the result is that acupuncture can only live in the mind.

So I feel I'm qualified to say it's a bunch of horseshit.

 

MissA:

As I've said below, royce, I'd be more inclined to try it in Aus than in China. It really helped dad and he was VERY dubious when our doctor made him try it.

8 years 44 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
8 years 45 weeks ago
 
Answers (8)
Comments (15)
Posts: 1723

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

I had it in my arm and it hurt, a lot. And the problem I had before hand didn't get any better.  Would never have it again.

 

 

gouxiong:

I assume the person performing your acupuncture was not good. At least today one did not hurt at all. But I felt strange pressure under the needle when he was implementing it. I told him that and he said it supposed to be like this - shall not hurt but I should have a feeling when he implements needles.

8 years 45 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
8 years 45 weeks ago
 
Posts: 3263

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

Not me, my wife. She got some pain in the neck. She got needles put in the neck muscles, just at the surface of the skin. Then the technician plugged that to an alternative current generator. The muscles were pulsing gently. A few minutes later, it was all done. The pain was gone too, for a week or two. Then it came back : maybe a bad sleeping or seating position...

More generally, this summarize well my experience of actual acunpucture (not electric current to excite muscles)

http://sci-ence.org/series/the-ghosts-of-woo-acupuncture/

gouxiong:

Thanks for sharing the link. It's an official European science standpoint. I know. Still not sure it is correct. For instance lately US official diatery recommendations were changed as it turned out the previous scientific reports were simply not totally correct :)

8 years 45 weeks ago
Report Abuse

DrMonkey:

European science... So science is a geographically variable thing ? Like, in China, statistics are like human bodies, they are different ? The comic mention statistics, solidly documented cause & effect chains, etc. This have nothing to do with being European or not. Diatery recommendation changes, yes, but I call red herring on that.

8 years 45 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Shining_brow:

Actually, yes, science can be said to be 'geographically located". What constitutes 'evidence' for some may not be evidence for others. Same with the concept of 'proof'. There is a cultural distinction.

 

But, I know what you mean.

 

Unfortunately, the website you linked doesn't really help the situation any. They cited only 1 (ONE) study apparently disproving the efficacy of acupuncture, and yet the document itself wasn't so conclusive as that. (yes, I've got access to such articles etc).

 

The main researcher has done quite a bit of research on acupuncture, and a number of papers saying why it's difficult to effectively do scientific research on it. These haven't been fixed, and even that study mentioned above has some of the pitfalls.

 

One of those pitfalls is the comparison of efficacy of individualised acupuncture vs a standardised system. Ie, in TCM, the individual patient is treated as a whole. In western medicine, a body is a body is a body... and if your liver hurts, then they try to fix the liver - not the whole body.

8 years 44 weeks ago
Report Abuse

gouxiong:

There are of course different judgments of certain facts in different parts of the world as Shining_brow wrote.

According to World Health Organization report on the efficacy of acupuncture, studies have shown that acupuncture is effective in inducing analgesia (as also Scandinavean mentioned), protecting the body against infections and regulating various physiological functions.

 

 

8 years 44 weeks ago
Report Abuse

DrMonkey:

@Shining_brown "Treated as whole" : treatments are tested extensively, and it includes secondary effects, proper coverage of common physiological traits (things like common allergies and intolerances), and cross-effects with other treatments. Same goes with diagnostics, doctors take in account things like women's cycle, local environment (things like local pollen, local fauna and flora, etc.) Liver treatment looking only at the liver, that is urban legend, not medicine as practised nowadays. I work on designing treatments, we go to *great* length to factor as much things as we can. There are guys trying to work with large set of data, trying to understand what goes down to the molecular level but also daily habits, etc. Versus empirical knowledge with very little predictive power aka. TCM

@gouxiong Different judgments, yes, but I won't give the same value to judgments. In some places, people might judge that the world is flat and the sun is moving in the sky. It's a personal judgment, but it does not equals any other judgment, such as the world is (roughly) a sphere moving around the Sun. Protecting against infection with acupuncture : I want sources showing that it's above placebo effect. Because if we are chasing statistical flukes, most things have an effect. If we are chasing a significant, non-ambiguous effect, that would be antibiotic, proper body care and proper diet.

8 years 44 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Shining_brow:

DrM - it depends on the medico, and the problem. The diagnostics you just mentioned (right down to the molecular) are for when a patient has had a chronically recurring issue that hasn't responded well to most normal (read - 'quick') fixes. The average consultation time for a doctor in most clinics and hospitals is about 10 minutes. The patient history is usually "fill out a form". In most TCM clinics, diagnostics tend to be 30 mins or more, and the practitioner takes notes themselves - not a form.

 

Also, while both patients may have a 'headache', the treatment protocols could be completely different (IIRC, there's about 9 different issues leading to headache). This is merely the first treatment session - not the 5th or 6th when the quick fix hasn't worked! (no, I'm not saying western medicine doesn't work - just that there tends to be a difference in the doctor/patient/illness relationship).

 

BTW - empirical knowledge has a very large predictive value!!!

 

If things were as simplistic in testing as you make it out to be, then there wouldn't be the detailed studies into how to effectively conduct acupuncture trials there weren't grossly flawed... for years! Issues such as actual similarities in patient condition (from a TCM perspective - not a western!!), what actually constitutes an acupoint (yes, this is actually debatable! Non-meridian points have been documented and discussed for a couple of thousand years!), the need (or not) to get 'de qi' (that very strong feeling that's not actually 'pain' per se, but something like an incredible discomfort... practitioners in China say very important, in Japan no), is actual sub-cutaneous needling necessary? (again, there are debates within the TCM world about this...).

 

Why are there so many differences in opinion (which you may see as proving the malarchy that TCM is) - because it's hard to rule out any one individual factor - because everyone IS an individual... even western medicine has serious issues it has problems explaining within it's own theoretical setup... such as, why do placebos sometimes work? Why do 'standard' treatments sometimes not work? Why do some people get side-effects, but others not? Why do some people go into full remission, while others become frail and die in short period of time? (why do some people like metal, and others K-pop??) Why do some ppl love GoT, and others hate it?) These are all indiividiual differences, such that making gross generalisations about all humans is extremely difficult.

8 years 44 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
8 years 45 weeks ago
 
Posts: 3501

Emperor

2
2
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

Yes, I've given it a fair go.  I have an inflammatory illness that has retarded me for 6 or 7 years.

NSAIDS have come and gone as my mobility has steadily decreased.  

Since being in China I've had a crack at acupuncture from a practitioner,  an orthopedic doctor and finally a TCM / orthopedic professor.

Treatment has involved some pretty out there wacko type stuff.  

All did their best (presumably) and the result is that acupuncture can only live in the mind.

So I feel I'm qualified to say it's a bunch of horseshit.

 

MissA:

As I've said below, royce, I'd be more inclined to try it in Aus than in China. It really helped dad and he was VERY dubious when our doctor made him try it.

8 years 44 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
8 years 45 weeks ago
 
Posts: 4540

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

haha,,,,  the post caught my attention.   I underwent surgery in SZ, the first thing the surgical team did as I lay on the table was to roll me up over on my side and jab what felt like a dull butter knife about 5cm deep into my spine.  devil  dunno if that is modern surgical acupuncture, but it darn sure got my attention!  I let out a howl that would have made Dr. Mengele proud of his work.  

*fun thing is, they repeated three times. I'm a lucky guy.  :)

royceH:

Spinal anaesthetic or epidural.  Not acupucture by any means.

Epidurals/spinals are technically difficult and you want an experience practitioner to be the one on the end of the (thick) needle.

In you case it sounds like they weren't proficient, or perhaps they used you for practice.

Whatever, bad luck, as it is indeed very painful.

At least, I guess, they must finally have got it into the right place, otherwise the surgery would have done you over like Dustin Hoffman's dentist.

 

8 years 44 weeks ago
Report Abuse

diverdude1:

thx for the answer... I have been wondering wtf they did.  I was just waiting to ask my sis in the US, but thx for your answer.  funny thing is how painful it was is the hardest thing to relate.  truth is, I screamed my fkng head off.  take pain, multiply by 100 and u r getting there.

   crazy doctor:  is it safe?

    hoffman: is what safe?

   crazy doctor:  is it safe?

   hoffman:  is what safe?  yes, it's safe.... it's safe...

 

   best damn movie scene ever!  boy, I felt bad for Dustin!

8 years 44 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
8 years 45 weeks ago
 
Posts: 9743

Emperor

1
2
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
1

Acupuncture is the ONLY part of TCM to have a documented effect. In my country, with modern medicine, it can be offered alongside normal pain medication, pain relief is the only documented effect.
My mother in law suffers from migraines (she thinks, in fact she just has some severe muscle tensions, but not one can diagnose that and she of course trusts the witch doctors more than me, well maybe that makes sense) and she often goes for a good needeling. This seems to help her, altough, I am fairly confident that it will never solve her problem.

gouxiong:

I would not be so harsh in judging TCM.

A lot of TCM methods is simply based on the herbs. And just lately it was found out in UK that the herbal formula from the 9th century is surprisingly efficient against golden staphylococcus.

In that sense that a lot of herbs used in TCM are also having its effect. 

8 years 44 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Scandinavian:

The problem with TCM is not the concept of using herbs, it is the concept of saying something works without using the scientific method to prove it works. It is placebo at best and at worst a way of removing money from people in a desperate situation. Most people are better of just drinking a glass of water (not in China of course as the water is usually pretty crap) 

8 years 44 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
8 years 45 weeks ago
 
Posts: 19937

Emperor

1
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
1

I also underwent 'acu-pee' once.....in Cape Cod, MA. The purpose wasn' t really to heal, butT.....I must be really in the 'honest' mood as of this moment.
I had traffic accident in Boston just few days before 911.......Somebody banged into the back of my Merz, while I stopped at the red light.
Insurance & traffic law 'analyst' would 'really' come handy in the further read.

My car was 'deemed' totaled, and Insurance Co. issued me refund for around US$ 3000.
Car was some 10Y old, remodeled and what not, so I felt 'pain' at the lousy refund.....and-d-d-d..... went to the Hospital a month after the accident, with the claim of excruciating pain in L shoulder when I make 360* move with L arm. Main 'cause' was the impact of the safety belt on my shoulder at the crash.
'Medical Pro at the Accident Cite'---->For the all Un-initiated'
MD (on duty) suggested healing with accu..., and shoulder's electrical therapy, what I all underwent in some 2M treatment.
I really wanted to 'soften' Ins, Co. up with all all my 'pain and medical cost'.
All shoulder's medical procedure was covered by Insurance Co. Free car too.

MD further suggested shoulder surgery as the last resort, what I 'agreed' to underwent (only) after few months observation of my shoulder.
My 'pain' ended as soon as the Insurance Co. deposited US$18 000 or so to my account.
If ins. Co. would force me to come out with my 'new' injury/disease, it would warrant Ins. Co.'s bankruptcy.
'When you step on the cat's tail, it (always) sounds (very 'loud') MIAU'-----> 'ButT ....u all know that!'
B. Marley wrote a song (mush earlier, thou) about 'acupuncture healing and things'.
It's called 'Don't Rock my Boat' ------> too hard....

royceH:

P - I - S...     S - E - D...

A-G-A-I-N......   Pissed again, lala la la.....

 

8 years 44 weeks ago
Report Abuse

icnif77:

No, I wasn't pissed yet. I couldn't edited reply.

8 years 44 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
8 years 45 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2616

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

in my early dreams ..  I did acupuncture with a credited acupuncturist in Canada ...many needles and a few electronic charges, today, I just look after myself and if I screw something up, well ... I live with it  ...soon it will be better, and it always is...I am healthy today...... no need for anything but my belief.

Report Abuse
8 years 45 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2385

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

My dad struggled with chronic back and elbow pain for years. When it was really bad he got a medical referral from our family GP to recieve accupuncture within our medical system. It worked, well, every time. I'm disinclined to think it was a placebo, he's a moody old bastard and I just can't see mind games working. He said it hurt, but only a little.

Oddly enough, I'd be more inclined to seek out and try accupuncture in Aus than in China.

royceH:

I see.  Thanks.  I guess you're a good daughter.

 

8 years 44 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
8 years 44 weeks ago
 
Know the answer ?
Please or register to post answer.

Report Abuse

Security Code: * Enter the text diplayed in the box below
Image CAPTCHA
Enter the characters shown in the image.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd> <img> <br> <p> <u>
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
  • Textual smileys will be replaced with graphical ones.

More information about formatting options

Forward Question

Answer of the DayMORE >>
A: In my personal experience, teaching certificates have varied in releva
A:In my personal experience, teaching certificates have varied in relevance depending on the context and location. Here's a breakdown of each aspect:a) Getting the teaching job: Teaching certificates can certainly enhance your chances of securing a teaching position, especially in formal educational settings such as schools and language institutions. Many employers prefer candidates who have undergone specific training in pedagogy and instructional techniques, which these certificates often provide. However, other factors such as experience, references, and the demand for teachers in a particular area also play significant roles in the hiring process.b) Getting a higher salary than your uncertified competitors: In some cases, holding a teaching certificate can indeed lead to a higher salary compared to uncertified competitors. Many educational institutions have structured salary scales that take into account factors such as level of education, years of experience, and additional certifications. Holding a teaching certificate may place you in a higher salary bracket or make you eligible for certain salary incentives or bonuses. However, this can vary widely depending on the specific policies of the institution or organization.c) Getting promotions: Teaching certificates can be beneficial for career advancement and securing promotions within the field of education. They demonstrate a commitment to professional development and mastery of teaching skills, which are qualities that many employers value when considering candidates for leadership positions or administrative roles. Additionally, some promotions may require specific certifications or qualifications, making holding a teaching certificate essential for advancement in certain cases.Regarding which certificate yields better results, it largely depends on the specific requirements of the job market and the educational context in which you intend to work. For example:A Postgraduate Certificate in Education (PGCE) is often highly regarded in formal school settings and can be advantageous for those seeking positions in primary or secondary education.Montessori certification is valuable for individuals interested in working in Montessori schools or implementing Montessori principles in their teaching approach.A Teaching English as a Foreign Language (TEFL) certificate is particularly relevant for those seeking to teach English to non-native speakers in international contexts or language schools.Ultimately, the best certificate for you will depend on your career goals, the specific requirements of the positions you're interested in, and the preferences of potential employers in your target job market. It's essential to research the requirements and preferences of employers in your desired field and tailor your qualifications accordingly. -- ruqaiya761
Recent Popular