By continuing you agree to eChinacities's Privacy Policy .
Sign up with Google
Sign up with Facebook
Q: After 4 years of service my boss is making my school transfer hard
Merry Christmas everyone,
well 2 days ago I finished my 4th year with my school. Due to the 5 year rule, I have had to find a new job. All was great a leaving party and eveything, Promises of no problems with my release letter and documents. Slowly things are turning bad. Now he is saying he will only give me the documents once I have let him cancel my residency permit. My new school have told me not to allow him to do this. I would have to leave China. I can see things getting very nasty ( no employee (Chinese or foreign) have ever left this company with what they are due. I thought I was different and he actually liked me. I have seen the release letter and recommendation letter, We are just waiting for the cancelation letter from my foreign expert certificate. I know there will be problems coming. My plan of action is to contact the SAFEA and the PSB (poilce security Bereau , Be very polite and just ask for advice. If any of you have any ideas please let me know. I have new for many years when I left it would be a massive f.... up. Cheers
7 years 16 weeks ago in Visa & Legalities - China
you should also post the name of this employer on any and all ex-pat sites as a place to avoid.
tell him you are only allowed 5 years, but if you do a year at a another school in another province, you can come back to work for him for 5 more years with no trouble.
make him believe you want to come back, but the government is screwing you and him.
icnif77:
Short sided?
I received Contract termination notice with 30-days 'last working day' with
1. 'your classes don't have an aim' - School didn't provide the book 
2. 'students sleep during the class' - 70 chaps in the classroom;
hired as an English teacher or receptionist in Hotel?
3. I don't remember the 3rd one.
After I dialled SAFEA, we had meeting with boss. I told them, I am teacher and not wake-up man, and since I am free to teach whatever (since no book), 'classes no aim' reason is corny too.
Real reason for Contract termination by School is 'I must receive full pay, when School cancels my classes (exams and what not). It happened fairly often (10-14 days of cancellations per semester). Chinese teachers here are paid per completed classes, I am not! Cost for FT is too high, IMO!
I proposed to School my conditions for Contract termination:
1. I will continue with work till I don't find another RP sponsor. As soon as I sign new Contract, I will submit Resignation notice and move out of the city in 7-days;
2. School will give me Release letter, FEC Cancel cert. and all late salaries.
They verbally agreed to my conditions, but I have problems to find new employer for two months already. One reason: 'my apartment Internet is so weak, that I can't conduct voice interview over Skype.'
Few School's teachers here gave me praise of how my classes are excellent and similar. Yesterday, one of the Chinese teachers (close to the owner) told me owner of the School can't find new FT, so I can stay and work here .... 
.
Me: 'I'll probably travel to Guangzhou for demo class with new School ....'
New School won't offer the Contract, because they can't hear my English pronunciation.
Can you believe that? I can't get new job, because owner bought the cheapest Internet in the world.
I can upgrade my Internet only after one year ....LOLOLO
Englteachted:
You can connect through your phone if you ever decided to step into this century.
icnif77:
I hate phones! Meiyou 'step into this century!'. Everything is so small! I use my phone every two weeks once .
Mine is in red colour for HK$ 190. 'Works' well for longer than 2-years already.
Next one I'll buy in the same price range will have translator. That's very neat future for one who's not-so-Chinese-fluent.
By Chinese law, your employer must give you (or to your new RP sponsor) Release letter and FEC cancel cert. in 30-days after your last working day!
Don't agree to RP cancelation, because you'll get 30-days RP extension (or L) and you'll be required to exit China and apply for new Z visa (unless your new employer will be able to apply for new FEC and all work of RP extension, ME in 30-days time).
You must be present at PSB in person with your passport for RP cancellation, so just don't go!
Good luck!
thanks guys, I am calling the SAFEA tomorrow morning. It has turned really bad. I think he is a little unstable in the head.
icnif77:
You can dial local SAFEA (where you got your FEC), but we have web link of Provincial SAFEA ----> enter 'SAFEA' in search above for address and phone no. of Provincial SAFEA (Headquarters).
I always dial out of our link, because you can get Chinese English speaker, who will usually dial your boss and put him in order immediately.
Be nice at talk with agent and ask for help and advice, i.e. 'play stupid' ----> 'I don't know, if this is right' Qs.
As icnif said: Add , send messages to your employer that you are renewing your RP and therefore it should not be canceled. Now you must understand the mainlander ego, it's very small and needs constant stroking, so offer to sign a contract stating that you will start the RP within 30-40 days after receiving all the correct release documents. And that he was a great employer and owes you nothing else.
If you want to twist his arm , remember send fucking messages (I can't believe how many people don't know to leave a paper trail) and call SAFEA while at the school.
Did you see the release and reference letter or did you receive it? There's a difference and you shouldn't be trying to mislead us. Understand, you don't need the letter just the receipt, when you turn in your FEC you get a receipt a tiny slip of paper, that's all you need.
Let's be honest and this goes for everyone, always assume when you are leaving that the boss will try to screw you. Request the release documents 6 weeks prior to leaving. If you don't get it 4 weeks prior to leaving you should assume they're trying to screw you. Learn how to be smart and tactful, mainlanders are dishonest in everyway.
icnif77:
Just for your info:
In Fujian, School terminated the Contract without valid cause. Contract allowed termination without reason given, with 30-days notice for both parties equally.
SAFEA told me, I must go with employer to PSB and cancel my RP with 'that's how things are done in Fujian!'.
I received 30-days S2 visa and new employer in Henan told me, they can't extend RP from S2 visa.
Henan also didn't have 'laowai hire authorization' yet, so I had to exit and apply for new Z. (2013/14).
I have seen the release letter only. I don't have it. I had to show them how to do one.
UPDATE ON THIS:
It is certain now, My old school will not give me the release documents or the salary owed until I go with them to cancel the residency permit.
My new school are going to call my local SAFEA tomorrow. In the meantime I am ordering my Poilce record check from the UK. That is going to be a bitch to do.
I will let you all know what happens. From what I understand is My boss is using the excuse that he is responsible for my actions under this residency permit. I will let you know the outcome.
icnif77:
No, he isn't responsible for your actions, if you submitted Resignation notice.
I had/have similar requirement in one of me Contracts here in Guizhou: 'if I tell the boss I am leaving the city (and where I am going), she will help me at any troubles I'll experienced till my return.'
I had to re-sign few Contract version for this or that reasons, and I remember one version had that provision written in.
Dial SAFEA and see what they say about RP termination.
I'd say, if you didn't commit grave Contract violation (crime), RP shouldn't be canceled.
At grave Contract violations, your RP must be canceled with 7-days exit China extension.
Thanks,
there was no resignation notice the contract just ran out December 23rd. Everything was fine until then. I finished all my contractual obligations
we will know tomorrow when my new school call the SAFEA
icnif77:
Doesn't your RP expire in the same time as your Contract?
If 'yes', your present School must take you to PSB, which will grant you either 30-days RP extension or 30-days L.
Main purpose of 30-days RP extension is either prepare yourself for China exit or it's time for your new employer to apply for new FEC and things.
If you're changing employer, you must hurry-up to your new city with Release letter and FEC Cancel cert, because your new job needs time to apply for new FEC, you must complete new Medical exam and then PSB for the new Contract duration's RP extension.
I have until March 1st on my RP.
I understand about the RP extension versus change to a L visa now.
My new school will be contacting the SAFEA tomorrow I will let you all know what happens. I am dealing with the poilce check now as a back up plan. I should have knew this was going to happen, as I have watched foreigner after foreigner get ripped off when they leave by him. If the SAFEA help me get what is due, His ego will be dented and he will learn a valuable lesson. He can't treat us this way. THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!!!! you have been so helpful. I have learnt a lesson too.
icnif77:
But, PSB will never give RP longer than the Contract's validity, at least these are my observations in last 6 years I work with Z/RP.
you should also post the name of this employer on any and all ex-pat sites as a place to avoid.
My RP always ends 3 months after my contract it is the way things ended up when I first arrived 4 years ago. And it has continued. When I first arrived I was on my old R.P for about 3 months before the school did all the paperwork. So since year one. my contract ended in December but my RP 3 months later.
THE MORNING UPDATE:
Again the school have told me :
I will get everything the release letter, FEC cancelation certificate and the salary next Tuesday but I have to go with them and Cancel my Residency Permit.
My school is calling the SAFEA today and offered a guarentee for the transfer of R.P to their school within a month.
philbravery:
better still tell your old school their presence is required at the Safea office to sort this out
ironman510:
Cool man, if all goes as planned and you get your new RP with a new job than its a win for you and us fellow expats, coffees on me if you ever come to Shenzhen.
icnif77:
You can go and cancel your RP! No worries! I said at first 'don't cancel RP', because I didn't know the cause for RP cancellation.
By Chinese law/regulations, you must receive either 30-days RP extension or 30-days L visa, which will give sufficient time to your new employer to apply for new FEC and extend RP for the duration of new Contract.
30-days RP extension give you choice:
1. apply for new job; or
2. prepare yourself for China exit.
If you committed grave Contract violation and that is the reason for Contract and RP termination, you will/must receive 7-days extension, by which end you must be out of China.
I am talking out of my own happening in Fujian in 2013: 'apartment had constant noise and School couldn't stop the noise. I complained, because I couldn't sleep at night. Public school's boss showed his muscles and terminated the Contract, which was permitted, i.e. 'termination without the cause/reason with 30-days notice'.
School wanted to cancel RP immediately with 7-days exit extension. I dialled SAFEA and cleared the matter: 'I didn't do nothing wrong! RP can't be cancelled with forced/short exit extension!'.
After SAFEA's intervention, I was permitted to stay in the apartment another 30-days (no cause termination clause), and after that I got 30-days S2 visa, which should give enough time to new employer to get all docs. (new FEC, ME and RP extension).
It will work similar in your example, after you'll cancel RP, i.e. you must get 30-days RP extension.
@brejnev
**** ECC won't let me add a comment.
you are entering the pre-Spring Festival time period, so you want to be careful that your new employer does not have your passport when you want to travel.
You are running out of time if you are transferring AND you have already made travel plans.
If the school are still jerking you around, just mention that you have notified your embassy that they are dragging their feet fulfilling their legal obligations.
Icinif: I do all my skyping through my 4g cellphone, upgrade bro
icnif77:
I shouldn't comment about Skype at your post . I saw it after, I should comment at retired's reply.
My phone is the cheapest in the world. I am proud of my choice, heheh. But, Skype always worked well over the puter.
They're all unstable in the head.
Protect yourself from now on.
Go see my post for reference on how I dealt with my boss.
You know, there very well be a logical reason for wanting to cancel the RP.... they are limited in the number of FT's they can hire, and if they've already reached their maximum, then they'll need to get yours cancelled ASAP before they can hire someone else...
Cancelling may only take an couple of hours... waiting for the transfer from the new school may take weeks... I can see why they might want to do this!
Please be weary of the promises of ESL management.
If they ask you to throw in all the chips before you get something. - DON'T DO IT
They will most likely screw you over because Chinese are extremely emotional and vengeful. There are MANY times teachers had to withhold examination result papers because Chinese schools did not :
- pay them on time
- pay their vacation pay
- give them back their passport
- sign their release documents
- give them the promised amount of classes or schedule
- give them proper allowances (living costs etc.)
- provided very poor living conditions
You must hold onto your bargaining chips and make sure that both are traded at the same time or... at the very least you give a little in good faith and then wait for them to provide their promised half.
If they start screwing around further... there is no point in using logic. It is extremely rare this will work as again, most Chinese management are extremely emotional. So what should you do?
Use their tactics against them. Play the victim card... explain how you are just a sole foreigner in China and they are Chinese trying to take advantage and hurt you. Explain how hard you worked for them and how well liked you are. How this is not your decision and instead from the government... how you would love to come back and teach in the future and give good reviews of the school... so why is he making it so hard for you? Put the focus on how you are treated and for all the other teachers to see how much of a victim you are... place guilt on your boss.
This method combined with witholding all your chips will work. They do this all the time... try to make you give up everything while making you feel like "the bad guy".
I will name the school at the end. once it is all sorted
@Icnif77:
The residency permit will be cancelled and they will give me all of the documents and salary.
I need to make sure the residency permit gets extended for 30 days and I can still transfer it to another school. (they are waiting for me)
My new school was resigned to a new z visa run. So I have been starting the criminal background check. But I have told them this maybe not the case . I have heard that if the reasons for a residency permit are finished contract and about to transfer schools they will cancel it but give you 30 days more to transfer it.
I am busy explaining this to my translator ( girlfriend) and my new school. They now see what I am saying.
If they cancel it it doesn't mean I have to start my z visa again. I might get 30 days still to transfer it. All i need is a medical health check then.
Thanks for all your help ( all I need is someone to check with my PSB that is what they will do) . I can sit back , chill out until my documents are ready next week.
Hotwater:
Be VERY careful on timings. They'll probably give you a 30-day L visa until new paperwork completed. But it takes (from memory) 5 days to issue new work permit, 5 working days for your medical results and 7-working days to issue the new resident permit. Government offices, including the entry-exit bureau, close for two weeks at CNY. This year they'll probably close on 20th January..... you add up the data yourself....I doubt you'll have your new RP before CNY which means you can't travel outside china during that time.
brejnev:
the new school are still saying however it is cancelled I will need to start my Z visa again . (leave the country) If this is the case I am screwed for china new year . My criminal record check will take at least 3 weeks.
Hotwater:
You won't need a new Z-visa! There are times when changing jobs that RP nearly runs out. So they issue you the 30-day visa to give time to process the new paperwork. Read icnif77's posts
icnif77:
You will get your passport back from PSB in 3 working days with canceled RP and new 30-days extension.
Then, you must hurry-up to the new city and with both docs. (RL&FEC cancel cert.), your new employer will be able to get new FEC and extend your RP, before 30-days extension ends!
There's no need to exit China and apply for new Z. Think about returning home for new Z, and if you're lucky new job might secure Z pick-up in Hong Kong. All traveling cost is on you!
Robk:
You are very lucky to have already obtained employment through another school before this process. They will most likely fight for you because they understand that your boss is being an idiot and that you are a good teacher (otherwise your boss would not be such a whiny turd and you would have not been there so long).
Even though your boss knows it is the government doing it, he may still cause you more issues. Why? Because he sees you as an asset or belonging. And he just lost you to another school... with that loss comes loss of face. Things get very emotional and logic is cast out the window. Since you are the source of this loss of face, then you must be punished somehow to show everyone that he is in power and try to regain his face.
So while you do have another school backing you (hopefully with more guanxi than he), be wary that he will try some last minute things to screw you over as a final desperate attempt.
If your RP is canceled and you must exit China and apply for new Z, employer must have reasons for RP termination, i.e. you did something wrong.
If you resigned with notice, your RP can stay intact!
(I heard about quotas - what Shining wrote - but, if that is true, it happened only once in Fujian: RP was canceled and replaced with 30-days S2!).
Dalian 2012: I quit with 30-days notice, because employer's Contract violations and moved to Fuk, Xinjiang. My RP stayed intact and I continued with work in Fuk. A week before Lioning RP expired, we visited PSB, which extended RP till the duration of Fuk Contract.
Kaifeng 2015: I quit with immediate termination, for the same reason as above and moved to Guizhou. Henan RP was valid some 4 months after I arrived to Guizhou. I continued with work till Henan RP expiration and then I got new RP extension till the duration of new Contract.
In both examples, I received Release letter and FEC cancel cert.
I wasn't required to exit China and apply for new Z.
Your RP will be canceled because of your Contract violation and not because of employer is unhappy, you are leaving the School.
I worked with US dude in Fujian, who got dismissed two weeks after me. He received 7-days exit RP extension, so I am guessing, he did something wrong with student. Later, he asked me for help with SAFEA, but he refused to tell me reasons for termination, what was my condition to dial SAFEA in his name. He is still out of China, i.e. can't get new Z.
what is the 5 year rule?
Spiderboenz:
Can't work in the same city/province for longer than 5 years continuously (supposedly, I've never met anyone that was forced out from this unless the school REALLY didn't like them).
omg I seriously never heard of this. I know people who has stayed in one company more than 8 years. German engineering company. He is german and get his visa renewed every year with the company with no problem. Is there a offical website I can look into things like this?
retiredinchina:
5 year rule is for "english teaching expert" only , not engineers or other professions.
Gratitude with Chinese characteristics. Doesn't matter how good of an employee you have been during these 4 years (or 10 years, or even 20), they will screw you over when you're trying to leave. The exact same thing happens between Chinese (although it isn't visa related since they don't need any, but there are other ways they screw over each others), they all complain about this behavior but will all do the same to their fellow Chinese given the chance.
In all my years in China, I have only met a handful of people with enough integrity to become business partners, 99.99999999...% will screw you over at any opportunity.
Still on this lol..... hang on guys I will fill you in on the details..... not sure what is going to happen.... My new school is sticking beside me.... I do think I will have to go to Hong Kong (maybe twice) ..... things are still happening now ,,.... My old boss is obviously looking for more ways to try and f... me over..... Hang on guys
icnif77:
Ask your new School to write on Invitation letter 'Z visa pick-up in HK'. If that is approved by SAFEA, you might be able to get new Z in HK with some two weeks stay in HK.
It depends in which Province your new School is. I hear, in all big cities Z pick-up is possible only in your home country.
My new school has fixed that mate, Hong kong it is .... Waiting on criminal record check from England should be here in about 12 days.... Just need to see how many days the PSB give me when the old boss cancels my RP.
brejnev:
I have got my criminal record check, I did not need it legalised. I can help if you are from the UK.
