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Q: The angriest, most embittered web forum for disenfranchised expats in China?
Last year, I left this forum because I got the impression that it's primary purpose was to give drunk, nationalistic, womanizing expats in China a place to vent their frustrations and to gang up on anyone who said anything remotely positive about China, its people, or its ways. Before I leave again for that same reason, I have one more question: is there a less bitter version of echinacities on the Internet?
What's bitter? I have fun here all the time.
You can prove (or disagree) people bashing China are wrong!
However, my favorite bash is US
.
What? You don't see the dominant theme of west errr USA bashing going on here? Seriously?
Yes, there are much more balanced forums. Try esl and cafe together spells?
I don't know which version of echinacities you were on last year but I actually don't see much of what you say here. Maybe you are more sensitive? Or perhaps you just don't share the views of members here? I think you should loosen up and take everything with a pinch of salt. Unless you are looking for a nice and proper site that fits your character, I think you should just live and let live.
What's positive about China...aside from it being comfortably removed from 'normality', ie; living a 'normal' life can be avoided here?
Positive things.... Cheap beer that you can drink wherever you happen to be.
Umm...the women have great legs, and you get to see plenty of them.
Ahh...hmmm....struggling for something else that's positive...
Nup, that's it.
Perhaps you could share some of your positive views of China because I sure as hell can't think of any more!
mike695ca:
Ignore him royce, hes not multi culturally minded, hes just a pompous douche. Anyone who disagrees with 100% of the population and whole heartedly feels that he must be correct lacks brain power for reason and is just a little prick. You can tell because he cant even form his own opinion he just recycles the same ideas posted on this site daily ie a sense of community and gender roles and bullshit like that but when he realized that he sounds like a fucking idiot he resorted to calling everyone un-educated drunks. Knowing full well most here are just as educated and sober. I feel bad he cant afford a pint of beer so in his ignorance their fortune has been turned to alcohalism. In my opinion this guy is more than welcome to fuck off from this site and go back to jacking off to Mao. Anyone who is so stupid as to judge everyone else when he is in the exact same social situation is beyond reason and isnt worth anyones fucking time.
xinyuren:
ahem, mike, your retort sounds embarrassingly angry, bitter, and disenfranchised. Sort of ironic.
mike695ca:
@xinuren please elaborate on the bitter and disenfranchised part?
xinyuren:
Disenfranchised, in the spirit of the OP's use of the word, describes a person who feels so powerless, he can only resort to bitter and angry words and insults. This is how your post sounded to me.
mike695ca:
, I'm a sober, college educated, and multiculturally minded man, not someone so nationalistic that I would reject another nation's ways just because they conflict with whatever ways happen to be trendy in my homeland at the moment. Aparently you arent fluent in backhand. Or irony. Him calling others disenfranchised while saying that shit to everyone else is by your definition extremely ironic. The only difference is i said it directly while not claiming to be the educated multi culturally minded folk like this dipshit did.
China tends to make foreigners angry at times. We have an acronym for it: BCD - Bad China Day. But not many here seem to be disenfranchised. Blowing off steam and sharing observations are what we do. Much of what we observe is not positve. Sorry you don't like it. If you are somehow seeking approval from us to leave this site, you need no such permission. By all means, take your leave. I assume you come from a free country.
Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out!
...
xinyuren:
Thank you for sharing your opinion on Chinese society. It seems your observations are fairly balanced and it's good to hear some perceived positive aspects of China, even if your words were condescending. Now, the door to leave is on your left if you please...
bill8899:
You're right. You are better than us, or at least me, and we (I) clearly don't deserve you. Sad to see you go. Wish you well. Bye!
Sinobear:
If you don't like this forum, feel free to create your own forum, website, what have you.
The problem is these people who constantly bitch and moan about a forum but know full well that if they created their own politically correct forum that no one (save their friend-zoned companions and parents) would join.
DrMonkey:
Yes, a lot of us are bitter, but being bitter is justifiable. I've no problem with people who are not bitter either. But, I don't think all opinions are equal, some can be defended, some, not so much.
* "emphasis on collectivism, submission to authority" : that's why many people here don't really have a sense of what is ok and not ok, not caring much for regulations, or just ignoring them. Also, I never more selfish behavior than here : no civil society, no sense of common good, apart from populist nationalism.
* "emphasis on education" : no, no, no, and no. I've seen the education system at every step, I worked in it. Education is not valued for itself, it's valued for the opportunities it offers. Education is abysmal, grades are completely disconnected with the students efforts. It's super expensive, students work a lot, but in the end, they are poorly educated in comparisons with other place with cheaper education. If people really love their kid and value education, schools would be different here. Instead, it's just a business like others, conducted with "Chinese characteristics"
* "sexual morality" : sure, the mistress culture and the attitude with sexuality (ie. prostitution) here is exemplary.
Shining_brow:
I think you've found the 'problem' you are having with this forum.
You have a certain view of how you think the world should be, and you also seem to think that China espouses some of that idealism.
We others disagree!
To the point that I'd suspect you of being a wumao.
Firstly, the majority of "westerners" almost have to be multi-culturally minded. Our countries are filled with people of so many ethnicities that you can't swing a cat without hitting someone from a different background than yourself (unless you either live way out in the country, or live in a specialised community). At the very least, you'll be hard put to NOT find even a foreign restaurant in any 'western city'. now, compare that to China, and the attitudes many people express. The very fact that so many have to point out the 'laowai' is an obvious indication of this... whereas, you're NOT going to hear 'foreigner/outsider' yelled out in cities around the rest of the world!
Collectivism... please, examples??? Cos I'm really hard pressed to even think of any that I've seen around! (other than families throwing money at newly-weds, only to expect it back later when required).
"Submission to authority" is something I think the vast majority of forum members would look at so disdainfully - for 2 reasons. 1 - the complete lack of regard for laws (eg, driving, polluting, spitting, etc etc). 2 - blind obedience is just stupid!
"Appropriate gender roles", "its lack of emphasis on the place of romantic attachment in marriage and its at least ostensible (look the word up) adherence to the sexual morality to which most industrialized regions adhered prior to the twentieth century quite appealing" - these are quite obviously YOUR attitudes and beliefs, which again, I suggest many of us do not share! I certainly do not!!! Your attitudes are quite conservative, and in my opinion, horrendous!
And, then, you decide to be insulting through the implication of "But then, I'm a sober, college educated, and multiculturally minded man" suggesting that the rest of us are 'sober' (in any context), 'college educated', nor multi-culturally minded" (note the hyphen). Granted, there are quite a number on this forum who are not men, so I'll give you that! However, speaking for myself, I'm not even halfway through my cider, and I'm only going to have that 1 bottle, so I'm not even going to get tipsy. I'm "college' educated (where I come from, it's called university, and I've done over 15 years of study through them - including studying 5 vastly different languages (thus, a tad 'multi-cultural'). I am, however, a man!
Since you are unable to abide by our opinions regarding a good many things, it seems obvious to me that it is in fact YOU who lacks the 'multi-cultural' perspective... given you seem unable to accept OUR views, and our cultures (which includes opinions and attitudes).
As for the Original Question - I'd suggest you go look at ChinaSmack. Or ChinaDailyMail.
MissA:
Brilliant reply Shining. A round of internet applause for you.
i love people with idealistic ideas of society and multi-culturalism in their heart, but tell me how you feel about it after living with it for 20 years, saying how great you are in china for the tolerance of chinese culture when they don't reciprocate the gesture is really a dead argument.
the chinese idea of preserving the society and taking the good things from other cultures doesnt seem to be working very well based on the reality i see every day instead of the perception people see and hear from the media. i really love people telling me that the reality i see is just my imagination. i guess i should have been born blind and deaf since i cant believe and should not believe what i actually see and hear everyday. damn i need a drink.
I think this is one of the best forums in China.
Most good forums are the same, a good mix of serious people, left wingers, right wingers, pro gun, anti gun and so on so on. It all adds to the debate and makes things interesting.
But what is specific to China is that a lot of people living here may be isolated from others of their own culture. I know in my case that if I feel isolated and misunderstood I can come here, have a look at the posts and maybe have a little rant myself.
It could be a lot to do with Chinese society's acceptance of us a foreigners....... they don't. Many individual people do, but the official line is that we are only here by kind permission and for a limited time only.
Compare that to developed countries. In the Toronto Mayoral race their is a candidate named Olivia Chow. She resigned as an MP to enter the race. In the UK we have lots of different nationalities in Government. Both national and local.
I think it will be an awful long time before we see a foreigner in an influential position here, if at all.
Not being included leads to disenfranchisment.
Not even having the security of long term residence leads to fustration, fear, resentment and more.
No wonder people want to rant !!!
Right, I'm off for a beer 
.
And, erm, one more thing. Officially, it's illegal to rant. It's probably even illegal to rant about people ranting 
.
icnif77:
Boris is 'authentic' Brit's name, or is it Scottish
disenfranchisment. I'll study this word next week! Pronunciation first, and then rest…..I think, you missed one 'e'
ScotsAlan:
Yeah... it came up red with the auto spell check. But I was in a hurry to get down the pub 
.
The spell check here seems to be American English, so I often ignore it 
.
.icnif77:
By his name, he must be related to Putin. I didn't use GOOG.
It suits well: 'London's Premier with Russian first name!'
Imagine same in China: Beijing CCP top head with first name Lindsey!
My dear cynical (look it up) friend, I will ask you one question: Why don't the Chinese celebrate National Day like the rest of the world?
Your day is 1st Oct ~ right?
In Aust. we celebrate this day because we truly love our country, as do other countries.
But not so in China~ besides Govt. propanda & the holidays themselves, there is nothing to show that Chinese actually/really love their country.
I've asked my adult students this question many times, and the answer is invariably (look it up) the same..they don't give a shit! Its just a holiday.
Can you please explain why?
Shining_brow:
Oct 1st is directly linked to the CCP's rise to power... while China was around for thousands of years. So, it's not really surprising.
Sorta like some call Jan 26th Invasion Day.
Personally, I've seen them celebrate, but I think it's just silly... "China's Birthday" BS!!!
I've never been drunk in China, there are no good bars.Show me a good Go Go bar.
on behalf of the other female posters, thanks for being classed as drunk, nationalistic and womanizing.
We have had a number of discussions recently on the problems of generalisations - keep it coming !
I was looking for a better forum, but no one posted one, except the Disney one. I was looking forward to a good laugh. Seems this poster did not really post a question, but a rant, did not even want an answer.
iWolf:
I personally enjoy the bitter twisted souls. This one is ok and I enjoy szstuff from time to time and gzstuff to a lesser extent (as I am from the Pearl River Delta) . It appears to be the most troll friendly site on the internet. Sometimes it is funny but like all forums, more often than not it is a bit humdrum
Mate, your response to my reply above had me snorting my cornflakes all over the place. What a heap of crap!
And then it occurred to me you were only taking the piss.
HAHAHAHAHAHA..... Verrrry funny! I gave you some marks.
And then I read on and found that you weren't taking the piss at all. That you really are a backward, uneducated racist. And with that realisation, BAMMO!
PROOF you are, in fact, a local!
HAR! You almost had me there for a while...
Anyhow, can't go on...too difficult to type and drink at the same time!
Clearly OP is not welcomed here but you have to admit one thing, most of us expats bash and trash China at least once a week for something, yet we stay here right? So is it safe to say that maybe we stay because we like China life more than we dislike it?
I dont bash China, I bash stupidity.
If it happens to align with 'China,' then.so be it.
