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Q: Anyone been contacted by Government-backed agencies for public schools in Shenzhen?
Three main districts in Shenzhen.
Bao'an - an agency wants me to live in their accommodation and earn 9k per month. Visa able to be done in Shenzhen.
Luohu - 10k per month and their accommodation, and visa same as above.
Futian - 14,700 per month. No mention of living situation etc although similar position earlier in the year offered a living allowance. Need to return to home country for visa.
Seems to me either the agencies are lying, or that the Government aren't really offering that much, tbh.
Problem for me is that I live in Futian, and the Bao'an and Luohu positions are an hour's ride away. My rent is 4k per month. Girlfriend doesn't want to move because her work is close by. Bao'an and Luohu won't pay a living allowance.
In general, I feel both Bao'an and Luohu aren't worth much.
I want to finish by going back to a topic raised by a few on this site, and a belief of mine which I still hold.
Salaries are not rising despite the ever-tightening restrictions here. I stand by an earlier comment that it's questionable whether there is any positive reason to live and teach in China.
Thoughts?
10 years 37 weeks ago in Teaching & Learning - China
Can't comment on any of the agency positions you mentioned.
But a thought on the reasons to live and teach in China: It depends on what the individual is getting from teaching in China. In your home country you might have had a job that paid a high salary, but sucked your soul, so it was a case of finding something more meaningful to do. Once the prolonged soul-sucking arrives, i know it is time to leave. I am prepared to give a new province and university a chance before moving on.
CARLGODWIN1983:
I see what you're saying, Sorrel, and I value your opinion because, as you are aware, I've told you before that I like your posts.
Thing is, as David touched upon, I've been in China for four years. 4 Mths Luohu, 3 yrs Chengdu and then here in Shenzhen for a year.
I will say, due to being fed-up of so much here, leaving Shenzhen for China is a massive step backwards because Shenzhen is the best city in China. If I had to leave here, it would be to go to another country, or back to the UK.
sorrel:
I always go with the gut feel of things. I would not presume to think what was good for me is good for everyone
Futian if you can find a cheap ticket to go home. You can come back to China as soon as your visa is processed.
Bao'an and Luohu are not that nice, Futian is one of the best area to live in China and the offered salary is standard for that area.
I'm not sure what to say regarding your long-term plans.
I'd definitely pass on Bao'an and Luohu Carl. You've probably got umpteen years of experience and the figures you've mentioned for these two jobs are the type of numbers illegit teachers tend work for.
I won't work for anything less then 12,000 after tax, and it's not because I think it's an indication of how good I am or anything, it's simply because if the school is making bank on me, I'll be damned if I'm gonna sit there and take peanuts.
To break it down, I just don't like the fact that some greedy business owner who for example charges 15 students 400RMB each for one hour are making 6k of you...for one hour!!. Now if you are teaching 18-25 classes a week they are making a killing and we're getting F.A, even with all their overheads, which I'm not even sure what these comprise off (it certainly isn't teaching resources or anything that makes doing our jobs any easier.
I know this example doesn't apply to you as these posts are government funded, but in general the average salaries offered for teaching ESL is an utter piss take, especially when you factor in their lackluster approach to education and how difficult they make teaching ESL in general. Throw in the other plethora of crap we have to put up with and unless something changes, I just can't see any reason why teaching in China is going to be worthwhile in the future.
Now given the ever tightening restrictions, that foreign teachers are on the decline and the rising cost of living, I think it's a farce how recruiters have the nerve to keep on advertising posts that offer 7k or 8k. Just because they pay Chinese nationals piss poor salaries schools it gives them the rationale to pitch "it's a high salary in comparison"....in comparison to what...slave labour!!
Concerning the stricter regulations, I know it's already been highlighted, but if the CPP really wants to tackle the illegal workers in China, how about actively going after the illegal schools, instead of just letting them operate once they've thrown a bribe up to the right official. It's far more easier in my mind to go after the illegal employers then the workers, remove the means to make money, and they will go elsewhere. It's simple, but oh no... that wouldn't compute with Chinese logic.
So in short Carl, I stand by your earlier comment too.
CARLGODWIN1983:
I actually agree, David.
What pisses me off most is that the Government offers aren't much better. I mean, are they stupid or what?
davidccollis:
It just can't make sense of it all Carl, it's complete madness, something has to give. I can see in the next year or so lots of teachers (those on F visas leaving) and with it a good number of schools closing or having to become legit. Hopefully at that point salaries will have to increase in light of the dwindling supply. I swear we should all make a pact not to accept ANY teaching position that pays less then 15k gross. Recruiters would soon get the message that the days of paying a 4 figure salary for a foreign teacher are gone.
When I first came here i couldn't believe universities were paying 5000RMB for a university post and yet, when it's teaching spoilt kids the alphabet and some basic vocab you can make 10k15k. What is that even about? The best part is when they say on the advert that if you have a masters you can earn 5500RMB....well f my ozone!! An extra £12.50 a week. At that rate it will only take me 10 years before I break even on my masters!! I'd by laughing if I wasn't crying.
Anywhere else in the world and salary scales increase in par with the level of English you are required to teach, e.g. lecturers earn more then secondary school teachers, who in turn earn more then primary school teachers. I know it's sometimes a bit more complicated then that, but thats the basic gist.
With 4 years experience, theres no reason why you shouldn't be closing in on 12k net with an apartment and that's at an absolute minimum. Is it worth trying to get them to increase their offer?
CARLGODWIN1983:
I understand, David. I agree with you too.
I think 'Face' has a a lot to do with it. Hence why kindergartens pay more. It makes them look good if they have a white face (Sorry for the racism - is a school's view, not mine).
As for 5k salaries anywhere, they can go and fk themselves,
Too right on those 5k jobs. No need to apologize Carl, I understand completely. I just find it tragic that the way that 'Face' is used. Telling a white lie ok, lying, manipulating, cheating and all that other bs, it's just a sad reflection on themselves. Worth part is to admit any this results in a loss of 'face', so it all just becomes a big cyclical pile of shite.
Face = "a phenomena characterized by one habitually speaking utter bs so to manipulate, deceive others and at all costs protect ones selfish interests"...and then justifying it by saying "well we've done it for 5000 years so it's all good".
You don't write about hours required to teach for that salary!????
'Government backed agencies'...How do you know that Government pays your salary?
Even if it is true, School always make money when hires FT, because Gov. subsidies include many other things, not only your salary. Beside that, School will always pay you a bit less than subsidy for salary is.
I am currently working for Primary School in Xinjiang, which receives Gov. subsidies for FT. I replied to their advert on March, 2013. I suggested to the School, we should sign Contract with beginning in the new semester (Sep., 2013). School replied, I should start teaching ASAP. I am working with grade 3, 4 and 6. I could never understand, why School is in a such hurry.
Another FT told me about Gov. subsidies, and assure me School is making money, when hiring FT, because subsidy is well over 100 000 Rmb, what School pays me per year. You can also count, if Agency is involved in your placement, they'll receive part of the subsidies.
juanisaac:
I heard the same thing from an Aussie teacher who is fluent in Chinese. He talked to the accountant of one government school and asked her how much they received from the Chinese government per teacher: 10,000 a month. They spend 5,000 a month for salary, and 15,000 in flight reimbursement, etc. The school gets to keep the rest.
My first school is still trying to find a foreign teacher now and trying to pay them 5k a month and they wonder why they can't find someone.
CARLGODWIN1983:
Of course the agencies get paid. They also get paid a lot.
Considering all the offers made to me above are all apparently from the Government, it is striking that there is such a big difference, so of course there are lies and flaws etc.
To answer your question; 18-12 45/50 minute classes a week, no office hours, but, you know as well as I do, if the classes are spread out, what do you do during the 45 minut free periods.
The Buxin school even had the nerve to say they pay for lunch and dinner which not all schools do. OH my word. They give me a cheap lunch and dinner at the school. How much does that cost?
Also, they're wrong, my lunches have always been offered and free.
CARLGODWIN1983:
icniff77,
You just got me thinking too.
There are still school fees, yes?
If so, that 100k is for them to spend on a foreign teacher.
icnif77:
@juanisa: I am not sure what amount Schools gets from Gov. But, they get money for 'using copy machine', and similar trivial things, FT rarely use. My School doesn't reimburse any kind of 'traveling', so there is some extra money.
@carl: I am required to work 10 h per week (16x40') but at first, School asked me to be present at School 8am - 1pm and 3pm - 6pm, M - F. I asked them for higher pay, or 'no office hours'. School changed Contract to 'no office hours', but I must work 5 days a week. On Monday and Friday, I have only 2 classes, 1st class at 9:40am, and the last class at 5:10pm, and they cannot accommodate my request to put all 4 classes in one day.
If I won't be successful with 4 days working schedule in the new semester, that will probably be reason for not renewing the Contract.
At Buxin School: 'that's Chinese upping their Contract: 'you also have free lunch, beside everything'. LOL.1. How do you know agencies are Gov. backed?
2. Schools don't offer housing? That's roughly 4000 Rmb per month in Shenzhen.
3. Most Public Schools have Contract with 40 h weekly presence at the School, same as Chinese teachers. However, I consider office hours no different than teaching hours.
Math: offered salary - apartment rent = net pay : 160h = ????
I asked my present Public School to increase my salary, or drop the 'office hours'. School offered new Contract with note: 'no office hours required'.
im not there, but im pretty sure there is no government back agencies... why would there be a government backed government school? avoid the agency, deal with the school. that is for all china, not just shenzhen.
icnif77:
2y ago, there was an agency, which offered 120 job openings around Shenzhen to Native English teachers. Contract was with 40h per week, free housing and 180 000 Rmb yearly salary.
I wasn't 'selected', because I am Non-native. However, in real I believe it works that way: 'as soon as Agency receive Resume with all required docs. (for Z visa), agency try to place FT in Schools around Shenzhen. If Agency can't find School, which would accept FT, Agency conduct interview, which (in my case) was unsuccessful.
Interviewer (lady with US twang) told me, main reason was my Non-native passport.'
They operate no different than any other Agency (without 'Gov. backed' in the title). I posted about that Shenzhen Agency, but I can't find tread here.
There's more treads about Shenzhen Agency at 'Dave ELS International (China) Board'.
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Their advert on GOOG:
http://www.eslemployment.com/shenzhen-government-looks-for-120-native-en...
Salary is much higher than few years ago, but 'free apartment' isn't included in this advert.
Yes I'm in Shenzhen, I was contacted by Ray, a Gov guy and I had an interview on Skype with a guy from India. They offered me the job, I said no due to the fact that it pays much less then what I make now, but the hours were great.
They will pay you 14700, woo woo woo, don't get too excited, lets take it slow baby. Because I asked how much after tax and they said Y11,900 after paying tax, pension, medical and a few other things. That's not including housing. I think they might help you IF you really need it, but I bet it's "ask first, offer if needed"
ironman510:
Yeah, you're correct and what alot of school don't take into account is the never heading increases in rent prices.
Shenzhen:
2006 Apartment Price: 2300 per month
As of today 2014 Same apartment but todays price is 4200
we need that bubble to burst.
icnif77:
I was very close, then. 4000 Rmb was just 'guesstimation'. Chinese 'bubbles' don't work same as Western ones. I would be very careful, when predicting 'bubble burst' in China.
Shenzhen is fulk of scammers, seriously, stay away!
Yinduoren:
Check the time dude, This guy might have already learned a lesson!
fada:
Im bumping old threads that need answer for points, i fancy a free flashlight
This might be a little late but if anyone is looking for info (since I've seen a lot of ads on here lately saying they're backed by the government) then I'd like to say that I've been working for a government-backed association in Shenzhen for the past 2 years. It's called Shenzhen Education Association for International Exchange. If the job that you apply for doesn't know what that is it's probably fake.
If the job you apply for is the same is what I have, the work is pretty easy. You teach maximum seventeen 40 minutes lesson per week, and the salary is 9000RMB before tax per month (half pay in June as your contract will start 1st Sept and end 15th June). They help you with your Z visa, give you free housing, 500RMB utilities allowance per month, return airfare, paid public school holidays and 4000RMB end-of-contract bonus. If you choose to sign up for a second year, the pay is 11,000 a month but the rest of the terms are the same.
For this position though, you need to be a passport holder of UK/US etc, have 2 years post-graduate work experience and you will need a TEFL certificate.
itsameimamario:
That agent must have big windows in his office cause they saw you coming from a mile away. 9k in shenzhen is idiot nong farmer wage, let alone educated white guy.
silverbutton1:
I agree. "9k in shenzhen is idiot nong farmer wage, let alone educated white guy."
