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Q: Are Americans as bad at teaching English as Chinese are at teaching their language?
No offense to any Chinese Chinese teachers, but I have gone through nearly 10 and every single one seemed to have the difficulties of the language reversed. For example, if I hear a long string of Chinese with "ta shi meiguoren" (he is an American) in the middle of it, that is obviously what I know, but I find locals will go immediately into translating the obvious part rather than the rest. I get the impression they consider the language impenetrable and a level above the minds of westerns. Had the same impression when studying a related Asian language; the people, even professionals employed in teaching the language to outsiders, seem to consider it impenetrable, like it is a subconscious belief held that it is nit really possible for foreigns to understand.
In contrast I have had great success using teaching programs designed by other westerns such as Pimsleur-style podcasts. Many Chinese assume I am fluent when I use phrases I learned from such programs. So again no offense intended to Chinese people, but do you think westerns such as Americans make similar bad assumptions when teaching their language and end up teaching what is easy and overlooking what is difficult to a foreigner such as people from the East learning English (or Spanish, or German, etc.)?
10 years 3 weeks ago in Teaching & Learning - China
Paul Pimsleur was American so it seems you are benefiting from American language instruction after all.
sam239:
Yes his stuff is impressive, evidenced by the fact that locals in two Asian languages respond to me as if they think i am fluent, when I use Pimsleur phrases. It is very effective use of native speakers as well. Q is, are there Ch. who have a sound understanding of what makes their language difficult (and easy) are all they all brainwashed by the "foreigners cannot understand Chineseness" bullcrap?
Harpo:
Ah I see. Guess I misunderstood you. You mite want to edit your question to the way you said it above. The way it is worded originally sounds like you are dissing American teachers.
Shining_brow:
You know there's a Pimsleur "English for Mandarin Speakers"??
Paul Pimsleur was American so it seems you are benefiting from American language instruction after all.
sam239:
Yes his stuff is impressive, evidenced by the fact that locals in two Asian languages respond to me as if they think i am fluent, when I use Pimsleur phrases. It is very effective use of native speakers as well. Q is, are there Ch. who have a sound understanding of what makes their language difficult (and easy) are all they all brainwashed by the "foreigners cannot understand Chineseness" bullcrap?
Harpo:
Ah I see. Guess I misunderstood you. You mite want to edit your question to the way you said it above. The way it is worded originally sounds like you are dissing American teachers.
Shining_brow:
You know there's a Pimsleur "English for Mandarin Speakers"??
I am together in the city with two FTs from USA, however I'm not working.
I was with US girl at parents/kids reception for part-time job. It was invitation for lunch, turned into both teachers having short show for parents.
Kids (8Y) English is very low, beginner's level.
US teacher went around the table with some 14 kids, and asked each kid: 'What is your name?' Each kid, same Q.
I asked 2 Qs first kid: What's your name?, and after an answer, I asked: How old are you?. Then I told 1st kid to ask next student both Qs, and so on. I was just watching, and helping kids either ask or answer Q. Lesson is called 'dialogue'.
She is in her 50-tis, and she is no teacher! Lucky her, I'm leaving this School.
Other US teacher (came off Qingdao) told me, she came late for her first class.
Her students invited both US teachers for dinner last night. They were waiting for her at arranged spot. She didn't come on time, and kids (14Y) insisted to go into her apartment, and see what's going on.
US teacher ringed her bell, and she apologized, she overslept, and can't join the dinner.
She is in China 3 years working as ESL.
Education at ESL can't help you, if your personality sucks!
Now, I'm not talking about all FTs from USA in China, but remember 'you're selling, what you were born into it!' Hold your 'downs'!
I studied Hebrew over Pimsleur, and I like it. I have French and Italian Pimsleur, too. Idea was to learn all 3 languages in the same time (I'm passive in Italian), however my life changed, and I simply didn't have time for this experiment anymore. Will continue, I hope!
"Ah I see. Guess I misunderstood you. You mite want to edit your question to the way you said it above. The way it is worded originally sounds like you are dissing American teachers."
I was more concerned about being seen as dissing Chinese teachers of Mandarin, which I kind of am. The last one I went to literally pointed out the exact words in a paragraph I already knew (the most common HanZi) and told me that the rest is too difficult for foreigners to understand. Ha!
And there is some room to diss American FT's as well, there are some definite clowns, but I have also found dedicated and skilled ones both in~person and online. I just have yet to find a native Ch. teacher who knows how to teach the language and doesn't insult my intelligence, hence the Q.
icnif77:
I've never studied Chinese or even talk about it with Chinese teacher. That's the reason I described short work and behavior of USA teacher.
This is also the 1st time I am with two other FTs. Mostly, I work alone at Schools in China.
I find Chinese teachers of Chinese very rigid in their teaching method and not flexible to the students individual needs.
The one-to-one teachers i hired were rubbish.
They were so-called professional, but refused to listen to what i wanted from them.
Shiningbrow: do you know of Chinese people who have used the Pimsleur English for Ch. speakers with success? It would be useful to know if they are just raised to learn in a different way, or if the "scientific" methods for language teaching like Pimsleur are useful for them as well.
Sorrel: that has been my experience as well. Only counterexamples I know are where the locals are used as native speakers in a structured program. Two I know of are apimsleur and one at AUA in Bangkok that teaches languages (Eng. Thai and Mandarin) in a way that emulates the way children pick it up. The teachers are native speakers but have an interactive classroom where people naturally pick up the language structure and vocab, almost without thinking about it.
Still they seem to have the underlying assumption that westerns are not capable of fully understanding it. I have not found this in studies of languages like Spanish.
Miost Americans in China are not Credential Teachers who do not have any teaching experiences. They are also either High School graduates or AA graduates. So how can they be good teachers. Being a so called "Native speakers of white" does not make them good teachers.
Chinese writing reveals the intention of the language. It's a simple spoken language that omits plural forms, verb tenses, a wide range of vocal sounds and breaks its own rules in order to be pronounceable (ni3 + hao3 = ni2hao3).
Different tones set syllables apart, and this may be difficult for foreigners to learn, but even these tones can't prevent thousands of homophones in the spoken language that are only differentiated by script.
The script was not designed as an accessible form of literacy for common people, but only as an elite jargon that the government disseminated among its trainees. It demands an insane amount of visual pattern recognition, meaning that if you are not skilled and practiced in this, then you are excluded from further literacy and intellectual development.
The Chinese elite became dominated by a specific form of visual intelligence, which may have led to China's preoccupation with looks/appearances, and utter disregard for further substance and quality. "I'm a Chinese intellectual because I can write Chinese flawlessly and beautifully. Why should I listen to the creative input of illiterates?"
The Chinese people underwent the same literacy practice, usually with limited success. They know that their minds thave matured since childhood, and they judge it impossible for adult foreigners to achieve perfect literacy, which may be true.
If you observe Chinese talking, it can be quite entertaining. Phonecalls lack context and visual information, making it nearly impossible for people to guess what the spoken syllables mean exactly. Chat programs have become more popular for communication now. I believe that the spoken language makes in-depth discussion of complex issues very straining on ones faculties, even for local native Chinese speakers. "You think too much." "It's giving me a headache."
Chinese languages are unified by their script. The spoken language is often secondary. Chinese teachers envision foreigners achieving no more than a dumbed-down spoken ability, and deem many everyday words to be beyond our ability.
You should probably ask yourself what the point is, of trying to learn Chinese. The people are not kind or interesting, and shun complex discussions. Paying teachers rarely teaches you more than you can pick up from normal interaction.
