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Q: Are Japanese aware of the Nanjing massacre?
I'm curious if there's any truth to Chinese people saying that the Japanese government removes it from their textbooks.
When I consider the number of references I've heard to the American War of Independence (thousands) vs the number of references to the genocide of Native Americans (maybe 20), it seems that most countries tend to favour positive narratives.
Numerous Japanese government members have advocated history censorship (note that numerous Australians have too), and some textbooks in Japan include facts that favour the state (though certainly not to the absurd degree that Chinese textbooks do). Chinese history denial is several categories beyond that of any other nation, except North Korea.
I've talked about this very topic with a friend who used to live in Japan, and she said that Japanese people's awareness of history is very high. Apparently young people in Japan are lucid about what happened in WWII (not like Chinese people), are quite level-headed about international conflicts, and are amongst the most anti-war-inclined people on Earth.
Regarding Chinese people's claims of Japanese history denial: "The pot calling the kettle black" is not even remotely adequate as an analogy. A black hole calling a stainless steel kettle black would be close.
China's general approach to addressing its bad deeds (such as history denial) is to accuse other countries of them. Little girls know this tactic as "No I'm not; you are!", and it also happens to be China's official policy.
I suspect that Chinese people's perceptions of other countries are largely based on bad things that happen in China, and which therefore other countries need to be accused of. This is quite similar to Freudian projection, but on a national scale.
When Chinese people criticize Japan's censorship of history, I kind of want to thank them for giving me such a good setup. The Cultural Revolution resulted in ten times more Chinese deaths than Japan's actions during WWII, and is wholeheartedly denied and censored (including imprisoning people) by the Chinese government. This is not a winnable argument for a Chinese person.
Of course it's not winnable for you either, because Chinese people don't grasp obvious logic problems. Nationalism is the only thing they grasp as a basis for argument.
coineineagh:
Agreed on almost everything you said. But there are occasions where Japanese textbooks appear that outright deny and obfuscate established facts, to a level comparable with Chinese national myths. And the Cultural Revolution + Great Leap Fwd resulted in 40-78 million deaths, which is not 10x the 19million Chinese WWII deaths at the hands of Japan. Just tweaking some exaggerations. It doesn't undermine your point, which is valid.
When I consider the number of references I've heard to the American War of Independence (thousands) vs the number of references to the genocide of Native Americans (maybe 20), it seems that most countries tend to favour positive narratives.
Numerous Japanese government members have advocated history censorship (note that numerous Australians have too), and some textbooks in Japan include facts that favour the state (though certainly not to the absurd degree that Chinese textbooks do). Chinese history denial is several categories beyond that of any other nation, except North Korea.
I've talked about this very topic with a friend who used to live in Japan, and she said that Japanese people's awareness of history is very high. Apparently young people in Japan are lucid about what happened in WWII (not like Chinese people), are quite level-headed about international conflicts, and are amongst the most anti-war-inclined people on Earth.
Regarding Chinese people's claims of Japanese history denial: "The pot calling the kettle black" is not even remotely adequate as an analogy. A black hole calling a stainless steel kettle black would be close.
China's general approach to addressing its bad deeds (such as history denial) is to accuse other countries of them. Little girls know this tactic as "No I'm not; you are!", and it also happens to be China's official policy.
I suspect that Chinese people's perceptions of other countries are largely based on bad things that happen in China, and which therefore other countries need to be accused of. This is quite similar to Freudian projection, but on a national scale.
When Chinese people criticize Japan's censorship of history, I kind of want to thank them for giving me such a good setup. The Cultural Revolution resulted in ten times more Chinese deaths than Japan's actions during WWII, and is wholeheartedly denied and censored (including imprisoning people) by the Chinese government. This is not a winnable argument for a Chinese person.
Of course it's not winnable for you either, because Chinese people don't grasp obvious logic problems. Nationalism is the only thing they grasp as a basis for argument.
coineineagh:
Agreed on almost everything you said. But there are occasions where Japanese textbooks appear that outright deny and obfuscate established facts, to a level comparable with Chinese national myths. And the Cultural Revolution + Great Leap Fwd resulted in 40-78 million deaths, which is not 10x the 19million Chinese WWII deaths at the hands of Japan. Just tweaking some exaggerations. It doesn't undermine your point, which is valid.
I heard they went from reducing the numbers (death toll) considerably in textbooks... to many Japanese starting to totally outright deny it.
It's wrong but I can understand... China is a major victim card player and has using that card so hard... it is sickening...
What about when China invaded Tibet or the Xin Jiang area? I am sure they didn't invade and treat the locals to green tea and rice.
Every country has done things they are and should not be proud of... China needs to stop whining to Japan, and Japan needs to leave history as it is and learn from it.
Lord_hanson:
Although they shouldn't have invaded either country. There invasion of Tibet wasn't too bad. They paid/bribed most of the Tibeten soldiers to leave their weapons and go home. I think they made the right choice. Their leader had abandoned them the first sign of trouble and the soldiers were serfs tied the land. Only the ruling elite had something to lose.
I can't talk of what the people know or don't know.
However, the facts are that the Japanese governmental department which controls education in the country allows for various different textbooks to be used in the schools, and a certain amount of leniency in the curriculums of each school - and the school boards of those schools can choose which books and what's in the curriculum (obviously, some things need to be covered, but to what depth?)
Some accepted textbook publishers have downplayed some events in Japan's history. Others have not.
Statistically, very few (IIRC, less than 3%) of the schools chose to use textbooks that did much covering-up of their history. Thus, most school children were at least made aware, or had it available to them, the knowledge of such things as the Nanjing Massacre.
Obviously, I can't speak for the phrasing within those textbooks, having never seen them, nor can I read Japanese.
Shinzo Abe led The Japanese Society for History Textbook Reform - a revisionist group dedicated to rewriting the history of what The Imperial Army did in China and in other countries. He has 18 people in his cabinet - 16 are members of the aforementioned group.
A nationwide education curriculum always becomes a political football. The JSHTR hasn't managed to get its approved history texts into wide circulation (currently at less than 1%).
Sure China has more than its fair share of propaganda in schools. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I find it offensive when Abe visits Yasukuni Shrine. By doing so he commemorates rapists and child murderers.
He also commemorates the doctors who performed a live dissection on Teddy Ponczka - a young American air crewman from a B29 shot down over Guam. The military doctors removed a lung and parts of his liver while he was partially anaesthetised. They also gave him injections of sea water into his blood. Then they killed him. Then they preserved his body in formaldehyde so trainee doctors could study him.
Shining_brow:
Yasukuni Shrine (靖国神社 or 靖國神社 Yasukuni Jinja?) is a Shinto shrine in Chiyoda, Tokyo, Japan. It was founded by Emperor Meiji and commemorates anyone who had died in service of the Empire of Japan, which existed from the Meiji Restoration of 1868 until the nation was renamed during the Allied occupation in 1947.[1] The shrine's purpose has been expanded over the years to include those who died in the wars involving Japan spanning from the entire Meiji and Taishō period, and lesser part of the Shōwa period.[2]
The shrine now lists the names, origins, birthdates, and places of death of 2,466,532 men, women and children, including 1,068 war criminals; 14 of whom are considered A-Class, leading to controversies. The Honden shrine commemorates anyone who died on behalf of the empire, including not only soldiers, relief workers, factory workers, and other citizens, but also those not of Japanese ethnicity such as Taiwanese and Koreans who served Japan.
(my underline, bold and italics) So - because of those 1,068, the other 2,465,464 souls are to be ignored - correct?
No, two wrongs do not make a right. And demanding a culturally significant religious rite because it doesn't fit into politics is just... well, Mainlander thinking!
nzteacher80:
Sorry. I'm wrong. Worshipping dead rapists, child murderers and genocidal maniacs in front of a TV crew is just fine. What was I thinking?
Well when you are in a fortified positon outnumbering the attackers 3 to 1 and you get your ass kicked, yes there are a few cowards in the numbers. simple math.
