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Posts: 31

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Q: Are people still using fake degrees in China to teach English.?

I was surprised to read that many of the ESL teachers in China use fake degrees to teach English.

I have a degree but found it strange that it seems no-one seems to do any checks?.
Don't the PSB or schools do checks. Aren't there any standards?

12 years 10 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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Emperor

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To really understand this you must first sort of have an understanding of how Chinese mentallity works, and what is "face".

There is a requirement for some job opennings to have an ESL degree, and for others, if at college level, for at least a BS degree.  Even to get your Foreign Expert Certificate you must have some sort of degree from a college at least.  But all it is required is to present a paper, from which a copy will be made for the record.
Now, they could know (or could not) that the degree is a fake, but because of "face" nothing will be said at first, it will be accepted at face value and no background check will be done.  But, do not get into any kind of problem, because then everything will be checked with a microscope to find enough evidence to get rid of you.  Otherwise, not much to nworry about, unfortunately.

It will be very easy to get on Internet and have any type of a degree faked for about $ 100 US dollars.  And even with such ridiculous names as American College of Arts and Science, they will be accepted here (as I said, at face value).  I do not recommend it at all, but it is very wide spread.

Almost:

Okay... BUT... what is your opinion of this here: http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=620155 .

9 years 29 weeks ago
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12 years 10 weeks ago
 
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Posts: 3025

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To really understand this you must first sort of have an understanding of how Chinese mentallity works, and what is "face".

There is a requirement for some job opennings to have an ESL degree, and for others, if at college level, for at least a BS degree.  Even to get your Foreign Expert Certificate you must have some sort of degree from a college at least.  But all it is required is to present a paper, from which a copy will be made for the record.
Now, they could know (or could not) that the degree is a fake, but because of "face" nothing will be said at first, it will be accepted at face value and no background check will be done.  But, do not get into any kind of problem, because then everything will be checked with a microscope to find enough evidence to get rid of you.  Otherwise, not much to nworry about, unfortunately.

It will be very easy to get on Internet and have any type of a degree faked for about $ 100 US dollars.  And even with such ridiculous names as American College of Arts and Science, they will be accepted here (as I said, at face value).  I do not recommend it at all, but it is very wide spread.

Almost:

Okay... BUT... what is your opinion of this here: http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=620155 .

9 years 29 weeks ago
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12 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 6321

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It depends. The last school I worked at in Guilin did check our credentials, and one of the foreign teachers got sacked because he had a fake diploma. Many wont but some will

MissA:

It's great to see that happens sometimes.

12 years 10 weeks ago
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Asus79:

Oooooooooooooo, I was there last year, working at EnglishFirst. What a joke that was. And I know their degrees aren't real. On a good note, I did enjoy my time at the cafe own by Thomas and his lovely wife. :)

12 years 5 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

Ok, I will amend. Universities check your credentials, the others I do not know since I have never worked at "English First" or anything like that.

12 years 5 weeks ago
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12 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 458

Shifu

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I'd say that China is rife with it as other Asian markets continue to demand more and greater levels of education from their foreign teachers. These standards are simply not at that level here. Yet. Fitting a racial stereotype seems to be the number one priority in the private sector.

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12 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1084

Shifu

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When the supply of teachers eventually gets close to the demand, I hope China can implement these standards for background checks.

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12 years 10 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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You needn't a degree to teach in China. It's suffice to be Caucasian.

Almost:

This is no longer true in 2014. Current requirements are far more strict. See: http://open.salon.com/blog/china_business_central/2014/09/07/new_china_foreign_employee_teacher_requirements_now_strict

9 years 30 weeks ago
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11 years 44 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Depends on what school, let's say a Chinese School or Private training school, I would say you only need a fake diploma, but as you look for the higher paying jobs, international schools, universities and so on, well, back ground checks will be done. But let's say they do implement what South Korea and Japan have done. Then if you are over 35 you are know longer welcome for you are out of the spotlight in the students and parents eyes, checks into criminal activities such as a speeding ticket or maybe smoked a joint when you where 16 would have you banned or asked to leave, so ESL workers, choose your poison. Besides, ESL isn't rocket science, I began in subject teaching at a major University, I had to have my transcripts sent by my University in a sealed envelope and the all original documents atested. So, if you teach primary students oral English without a degree doesn't matter to me, if you teach AP subjects or any subjects for that matter, it does matter about a real degree. It has always surprised me on this website, fake degrees at a training school OH MY, come on people really. You are not doctors or teaching rocket science, you are teaching people to speaki your mother language not math, science, physics and so on. Get a tesol or tefl, have a good heart and gather a good teaching methodology, why a degree?

NotGuilty:

Fake diploma?  I had no clue that there are fake diplomas ..I be damn.
So all what i need is the photoshop and the ilustrator and Viola.

It would never cross my mind to use fake diploma..UNREAL

11 years 44 weeks ago
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Almost:

So you don't get arrested and deported dude!  Yeah, maybe the odds of getting caught are only 30% but the 5 year reentry ban is a bit harsh especially if your partner is Chinese eh?

 


http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=620155

9 years 29 weeks ago
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11 years 44 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1838

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Given that the only criteria for teaching in many places is the white face, why would the school give much of a hoot whether the diploma is genuine or not?

 

As long as it gets by the local Foreign Experts' Bureau and PSB, they don't care. I guess even borderline cases can be settled by a little guanxi or money under the table.

FruitIsGood:

It may also affect how much pay you can get. Getting a job and creating a strong case for more pay are two different buffalo.

11 years 43 weeks ago
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11 years 44 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2604

Shifu

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What's a fake degree? Barrack Obama got an honorary degree and so did Jimmy Fallon. Barrack Obama got one from Harvard and they said it's a real degree he just didn't take any classes. And Jimmy Fallon got one because I think he dropped out of the school but they gave one to him anyways because he was famous and they get to add him to the alumni status. 

laowaigentleman:

James Franco is doing a phd in English literature at Yale... nuff said.

9 years 29 weeks ago
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11 years 44 weeks ago
 
Posts: 75

Governor

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To do any work legally, you need a Z-Visa/work permit. To get a Z-Visa legally, you  need at least at a BA. 

 

I guess that's where Photoshop often gets into the equitation.  

radiocrasher:

You don't need a degree or BS!

I'd stick to firing guns soldier boy!



Requirements
1. Applicant's valid actual passport with at least six months validity left before expiration and at least one blank visa page left in it. 
2. One truly completed Visa Application Form (Form V2011A). If you are applying to work in China, or if someone else travelling with you shares the same passport, or if you are applying for a visa in a country or territory other than the country of your current nationality, you should fill out the Supplementary Visa Application Form (Form V2011B) 
3. One recent passport standard photo affixed on the Visa Application Form. 
4. "Invitation Letter of Duly Authorized Unit" or "Confirmation Letter of Invitation" 
5. Work Permit (one of the following work permits): 
Foreign experts, scholars, teachers or managers to be working in Mainland of China should provide the Confirmation Letter for Foreign Experts from the State Administration of Foreign Experts Affairs of the People's Republic of China

Chief Representative of the permanent office of foreign enterprise in China should provide the Registration Certificate from the local Administration for Industry and Commerce

Foreigners engaged in offshore petroleum operations in China should provide an Invitation Letter issued by China National Offshore Oil Corporation;

Foreigners to be engaged in commercial entertainment performance in China should provide the temporary commercial entertainment performance permit from the Ministry of Culture of the People's Republic of China. If the band has not more than five members, only the Visa Notification from the Foreign Affairs Office of province, autonomous region or municipality is required.

Other foreigners who comes to china for employment should provide the Employment Certificate for Foreigners (Work Permit) issued by the Ministry of Labor and Social Security of the PRC

6. For the accompanying family members, they are not required to provide a Visa Notification Form or a Working Permit; they should provide Proof of Relative Relationship e.g. Marriage Certificate, Birth Certificate, etc

11 years 33 weeks ago
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11 years 44 weeks ago
 
Posts: 250

Governor

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Funny you should ask...

 

Maybe you should check out these recent links  http://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6767  and http://chinasupersleuth.wordpress.com

Robk:

Did you read the date on that post?

 

"Funny you should ask..." He posted it over 2 years ago dude...

9 years 30 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

yeah get with the times CFTU guy

9 years 30 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

Is that your new search engine optimization site, China Super Sleuth?

9 years 30 weeks ago
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9 years 30 weeks ago
 
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