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Posts: 5539

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Q: Are people trying to americanize China?

no to forced abortion (i haven't had my coffee yet), concern for human life , sanitation (you can't live, eat, breath amongst your "droppings" even animals know this,  black plague), Are these just american values?

 

this is a private message sent to me by lokethebloke. Your thoughts.

 

 

"Hello Crimo,  

 

I don't normally do this but I feel that I must put you in the picture about my nationality.   I was born in the town of Port Talbot in South Wales, United Kingdom in 1948.   I have traveled to about 40 countries in my 64 years and have had close links with the USA military since 1960.   I'm very familiar with the wonderful PX where I used to buy cheap booze and fantastic cigars, have brunch and do a bit of bowling (283 my best score).   In my military career I have worked alongside many US comrades in a number of situations, some of which are still classified.   I have a number of American friends who tend to agree with my liberal views and I know that these views can cause a great deal of hostility in your paranoid country.  So in normal circumstances I try not to be too critical even though it would be so easy.

 

I'm not a fan of people who are critical of other people's countries.   You, or your company have obviously been invited to China, you could equate this with being invited into somebody's house, you don't shit on the lounge carpet.   Not every country in the world wants to go down the 'American Way'.   You can not force people to accept that the American Way is the only way.  Sadly that's what I think you and others are trying to do on this site.  

 

You appear to have no respect for your host country and you certainly have no respect for me or my mate Gaohao, who IS English, I by the way am Welsh and would not under any circumstances ever want to be English.   Nor would I want to be Chinese and I certainly would not want to be a United States citizen."

11 years 35 weeks ago in  Culture - China

 
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It is not just the USA

a lot of countries have had influence on China over the centuries

As you know Im not a great fan of the US however I treasure the friendships I have with

some of you Yanks and Territories residents  (Raff)

from Hong Kong to Harbin foreign powers and peoples have played a part in the development  of China

and to this day we still see new things

so in part to your post yes but only in part

 

philbravery:

Happy can you translate this so it makes more sence please?

11 years 35 weeks ago
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bigasspanda:

cryingcrying

 
Shénme???

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Let the fun begin!

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11 years 35 weeks ago
 
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"Are people trying to americanize China?"

 

I am trying my darndest....I don't think it's working

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  Well I do wear a baseball cap quite a lot. Sometimes backwards! But then i'm not American, so it doesn't count.

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oh of course we do! American way is the best and only way! and it suits all countries!

cooter:

The voice of reason! +1 for you!

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I can't speak for others about wanting to "Americanize China," but I, for one, am not. I didn't come to China to turn it into a little U.S.A. I came to China to experience China. What I found when I arrived was a country in conflict with itself. Not so much on a national or existential level, but in a real sense, a country with an acute identity crisis as it seeks to balance the relationship between its own past and the possible future.

 

As Pogger mentioned, "...China takes almost all of the worst crap about western culture and mashes it together in one strange frenzy of celebration, and then they complain about foreign-worship."

 

The sacrosanct ideas from America are enshrined in our way of life, being the rights of the common people  and the 4 freedoms (freedom of speech, freedom of worship (or not), freedom from fear, and freedom from want; delivered in an address to Congress in 1941 by FDR). Add to that the right to redress the government for real and perceived wrongs, and one sees the bedrock that sets the foundation of the American idea. 

 

Much of the above, however, would not be tolerated by the current Chinese administration, for obvious reasons. So, what is allowed in, primarily as a way to placate the general populace and give the semblance of tolerance, is American (and western) pop culture and products. This has done nothing but fill the average Chinese life with things, but has done little to advance ethics. And lets admit it, Chinese ethics is currently in a shambles. As this thread is specifically about China, I won't go into how American ethics is in a spiral, also, as that is a discussion for another day.

 

If I wanted to try and Americanize China, I would be importing American ideas, not American movies, books, clothing, etc. American products will in no way Americanize China, because it has simply turned into "western consumerism with Chinese characteristics."

siyingyuan:

American ideas? Isn't that represented through American movies, books, clothing, etc?  Of course there are a few people not influenced (or at least tried their best not to) by pop culture, but as a general public, how many people in US believe American movies, products equals American ideas? How many people in US, especially the younger ones who soon is going to rule the country, developed their "American" ideas through American movies/TV? As we are living in the era of mass media, I would have to say movies/TV are THE media spreading American culture to Americans and worldwide, including China. Sure there are good thoughtful books out there, but most people in general public won't bother to read it, coz they are not as exciting as movie/TV.

11 years 35 weeks ago
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giadrosich:

You're missing the point. No, the ideas that I wrote about are not represented in American movies, ect., to a large degree. Hollywood is not America, and Hollywood's prime objective is to push it's own agenda, which in many circumstances, is diametrically opposed to the ideas that I mentioned. For further reading on the subject, two books are in order. The first was written by Allan Bloom, called "The Closing of the American Mind," and the second is "Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Showmanship," by Neil Postman.

 

The former deals with the state of higher education in America and how it has failed the concepts of democracy (and hence, a greater republic). It is worth the read because it goes into great lengths defining those original concepts as put forth by the founding fathers who framed the American Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The latter book compares the Orwellian vision presented in 1984 vs Huxley's Brave New World and specifically, how the entertainment industry has eroded both appreciation and the ability to comprehend those foundational American ideas in the name of activism disguised as entertainment, resulting in apathy among the general population, who would rather watch action-hero Joe Shmoe battle aliens, or worse, a reality T.V. show, which is anything but "real life." So, while American idealism dies the death-of-a-thousand-cuts, no one cares, 'cause "by golly, I sure laughed my ass off last nigh watching The Simpsons (which, btw, is funny)!"

 

Sorry to say, but one hand washes the other. Because of the situation present at the university level, subsequent generations (aka young people) do not have the knowledge or the fortitude to make sure that those same liberties are propagated. Hit on the other end with "what, how, and why" to think as presented in mass media, and you can witness the result in cultural implosion. Each generation gives up more and more of their rights, being satisfied to suck on the governmental teat, so to speak. So, no, movies, books, and television does not reflect real life (or the real ideas) in America, just as CCTV does not reflect real life (or the real ideas) in China.  

11 years 35 weeks ago
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siyingyuan:

I absolutely agree with you! Seems like US is losing it's true liberties, what it has is the illusion of freedom and democracy, standardized government tests and public school definitely contribute to this movement, which is sad. I can imagine the next generation now does not realize how much they've lost and won't fight for their rights. And I totally agree Hollywood movies do NOT contain true American value, even though the mass public believe so.

Well, US is still 100 times better than China. In terms of democracy I do want to be Americanized, because it's better than the current Chinese government, but politics can never be separated from culture and not everything in US fits Chinese culture (and I prefer to have true liberty than illusion of liberty), so I don't know. I have no idea how to mix Chinese culture and democracy together (hence, the kind of "mix" Chinese government doing right now is definitely not working) I'm never good at politics or figuring things out, I will leave that to those who know better; and hopefully they don't give us illusions, though I don't have much faith on that.

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As you may or may not know there is like soooooo many more western countries thats is not at all like USA or wants USA values. 

Spain,France,scandinavia,germany,darn the whole Europe

 

But one thing is for sure, USA wants to Americanize the whole world.

US was the economic power but no longer. Germany is an example that will overtake US easily,

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China bans its greatest artist, authors, and thinkers, who all move to foreign countries. Why is anyone surprised by the schizophrenia of the culture here?

 

rasklnik:

-I'd like to add I want to westernize China, not Americanize China. Many of the best things about America, are also found in France, the UK, and even Russia. Christianity gave us respect for the weak. The Germanic tradition of things taught us equal rights under the law. Parliamentary procedure was British. The idea of religious toleration was European, but brought to full force in Pennsylvania and Maryland. The Russians showed us that a corrupt inefficient regime can end without mass bloodshed, when the people value the rights and dignity of man.

 

-China gives us only despotism, cruelty, and autocracy. The Qing, the KMT and the current govt. are all guilty.

 

 

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I don't agree that 'people' are trying to Americanize China. (What people? Where? Why?) but nevertheless it's happening, isn't it?

 

I think it started back at Opening and Expansion when China consulted America in regard to Education and based their new system on the American one.

 

 While this means that those of us who aren't American have to quickly adapt to words like Sophomore and Candy and Elevator and saying different 'than', its not particularly troublesome.

 

 But when the majority of text-books, dictionaries, and available Wikis are American it means that the majority of students with whom I've dealt have a tendency to  conflate 'American' with 'Western'. (Which is why I and many of my colleagues have frequently been told 'our' culture is only 350 years old while the Chinese culture is the oldest in the world!!)

 

It stands to reason then, that the majority of movies, books, music (Boyz to Men have a lot to answer for) etc. that comes from the West comes from America. And while most of us who come here have been brought up in the knowledge of what exactly the Dream Machine is all about, locals who have not been exposed to a culture of research, questioning, critical thinking or alternate philosophies  regard such things as genuine windows on the world.

 

The idea that Western parents don't love their kids as much as Chinese parents comes from Home Alone - a premise that could never happen in China - where an entire family 'forgets' their son.  The argument that British ship-building was a short-lived and inferior venture comes from Titanic where the 'unsinkable' was not possible. While the idea that Western women are shallow, sluttish, beautiful and vacant comes from hundreds of hours of exposure to Desperate Housewives, Gossip Girls, and every B movie that ever gets pirated.

 

So no.  I don't think that there is some deliberate move afoot - by anybody - to Americanize China. I just think it's inevitable.

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might is right.

i do not hate Americans but i hate its government,its foreign policies, the will bomb you and also give you the medicine for it. they will destroy the infrastructure of your country and will provide you everything to make it again. they want the human being crawl beneath their feet which is not possible. 

governments and countries are protected by the secret services agency. they play their tricks, games, moves etc. just keep his own country safe. about Chinese Americanizing its almost completed.. you can do fair comparison, mortality is nil in both countries, same-sex marriage are and will get common in both countries, value for religion or religious stiff is declining in America and china do not give damn to it. there are much more things in it and to it.

its all war about resource, china will use its military power sooner or later and will do the imposition of its rules, standards and negotiations. history repeats, Japanese did, Americans are doing, German did, Russians did.

long moon ago...... roman civilization, Greek civilization, Egyptian civilizations they also did that...... 

 

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