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Q: Are there enough FTs in China?
Today's Jobs website sports English teacher vacancies on (let me check for the latest data) 21 pages with 25 English teaching job openings per page.
Some are repeaters, but roughly that's around 450 English teaching vacancies per today.
21 pages is the record in the last month.
It looks, Schools by posting job adverts might be making money somehow by advertising vacancies here.
I wonder, what do they (Schools) do if they can't get FT by all desired parameters.
Does Native English Teacher in China come similar as panda? Watch your hair.
8 years 42 weeks ago in Business & Jobs - China
if there were more ethnicities on the streets here, perhaps teachers wouldn't be employed as glorified petting zoo attractions. as it stands, i don't see FTs being valued for skill anytime soon, they are only worth novelty and entertainment value. it's like how drugs lose their potency after prolonged use - giving less satisfaction. diminishing returns.
i think that's why I had such a hard time when I discovered what 'teaching' in China meant: there are no long term prospects, no investment in your experience, no opportunities to be found. just a migratory lifestyle where you need to keep moving, so your face and 'teaching style' can supply novelty and entertainment value to new faces.
It's not unlike how a con artist has to skip town after a while, having outstayed his welcome, his methods and face become too well known. teaching should not be a scam.
icnif77:
'You need to keep moving' ----> never, ever think about renewing the Contract.
It's friggin' inconvenient to keep moving every year after 6y here, but one must do that.
This is the 3rd school, which was all happy with my work and 'we want to renew' and what not. Now shorting at pay occurred for the 3rd time at the different school in the end of the contract.
I would be happy somebody would say 'we don't like how you teach English', so I could adjust. But, nobody ever complain against anything I do in the class.
Shining_brow:
Actually not true.
For those who intend this to be a career path, then they put in the effort and get the qualifications (and the appropriate experience).
With the right qualifications (which can now be done online), you can get yourself into good positions, which actually make a difference. And, you can actually teach real stuff, and get some real respect.
Granted, this isn't likely if you're sticking to kindergarten... But other than that, there's international schools, and Sino-OS university co-op programs (which can still suck).
icnif77:
@Shining: I would love to stay in one place for few years, but I can't, because of how Chinese are doing business (and lack of my extra teaching education):
1. Xinjiang promised renewal of the Contract in Nov., with Contract expiration in May. April 15th: 'we can't extend Contract, because of no funds.
2. Henan wanted me to stay long term as soon as I arrived last Sep. I told them I hate to move from place to place. School wanted to be some kind of 'Sino-Alberta' thingy, however as it looks, they changed their mind after the visit of 20 English teachers from Alberta.
All Canadian books are discontinued. New Contract is for Oral English teacher, despite I worked hard on IELTS prep since Jan. I asked for higher salary as IELTS prep teacher. Now, 'shorten pay and no flight refund', despite we signed new Contract. It's like they're telling me: 'Just quit!', what I can do, because of their Contract violations.
It's clearly not in their interest, I stay here longer time. So, what I'm going to do with 5l of Italian olive oil now?
'Never plan to stay longer, but be ready to move at Contract expiration' is my thing.
You have to consider how many people advertising are legit, how many bait-and-switch positions are advertised, how many i.d thieves are advertising, how many duplicates due to agents copying from other adverts, etc.
Then, of course, are the low-ballers - 40 hours per week, 6 days per week, for the whopping salary of 3500 RMB/mo.
Yet, there are always takers...
P.S. 'Are there...'
icnif77:
I was just scoping Yahoo-gle for pl. or sin..
'demand' was in my original Q I wanted to ask with sin.
But, still every advert wants Native English Teacher.
Low ballers? I'm looking for some Summer gig: '8k for 100h/month at Webi International.' Got Contract, and everything is up and up. Now, I'm talking to the placement agent about low pay, and he replied: 'that's the highest salary offered. Most of the Summer camps are 5-6k pay with the same hours.'
So, by the no. of job adverts, pay should go up, but it doesn't. What do they do, when they can't get FT for a year of posting job adverts? Do they just say to the leader: 'no luck!', and let's repeat the same advert?
Shining_brow:
Well, Incif, as you well know, the agent will tell the school they have found themselves an awesome native English speaker from the US... with a degree from one of the top 100 universities... in English Literature...
And, the first lesson will be on pronunciation - Zdrazvituye... Kak dela? Ya ochin horosho... He-lo. Vat is yur nam?
(apologies to my Russian-speaking comrades who actualy have very good English :D:D:D)
icnif77:
@Shining: 'If I'm honest, I've never met such a FT. The worst was 'whale', US FT in Jianou last year. Her English was native, but she worked as an Amtrak train dispatcher, before she became teacher in China.
Myself, I can't ever see the Contract, before Skype live talk, so I don't think Chinese schools would bite such a bullet as you describe.'
Did you work in Harbin? Million Russians there.
icnif77:
'low ball' reply from Webi:
about the salary for summer camp, it's the decent salary in our city, our city is a small, clean, convenient and hospitable city. i don't know the other cities, but among the other cities like our city's size, the salary it's Ok. i hope you can consider about it. acording to your performance, if later the feedbacks from students are good, we can consider to have a raise.
the summer term is from the end of june to the begining of september. normally for 2 month, according to the ESL teacher's situation.
They're offering 8k for 100 hours (60') per month.
Shining_brow:
TBH, 80/hour would be the going rate... Especially in a lower tier city.
I've even seen it here (too often) in Hangzhou.... it often gets advertised for longer-term jobs.
Instead of teachers, lets just say foreigners.
In one hand there is too many, on the other, not enough.
What hand has precidence depends on how the wind blows.
China has too many skeletons in the closet yet to allow too many foreigners in. We need to wait for the closet to be cleaned before the wind blows in our favour.
icnif77:
Chinese do things somehow differently than us. You would think, on such a shortage pay would go up, but it doesn't.
They're just posting job adverts, and they're nonchalant, if they don't get anybody.
No, the demand for foreign teachers in China greatly outweigh the supply. Yet they keep offering ridiculously low salaries.
Thailand on the other hand has way too many FTs wannabe. But those won't come to China, they rather struggle in the land of smiles than in the land of smog.
icnif77:
China doesn't work on 'demand/supply' principle, however I don't understand how this 'looking for FTs' works. It's just friggin' never-ending posting of job adverts.
RandomGuy:
Job agents post adverts, not schools, they earn commissions from the schools for doing so, and the jackpot for finding teachers.
icnif77:
Yeah, that could be an A for that adverts posting. But then, somebody must pay to eChina for all this adverts.
This is what I do in my down hours.... I look out the window. Often I listen to music at the same time.
At the moment it's Talking Heads, again.
8k for 100 hrs of summer gig sounds like a shove it up your kyber pass kind of gig.
Forget it and go up the Karakoram Hwy!
diverdude1:
And you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack And you may find yourself in another part of the world And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile And you may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife And you may ask yourself Well...How did I get here? Letting the days go by Let the water hold me down Letting the days go by Water flowing underground Into the blue again After the money's gone Once in a lifetime Water flowing underground
icnif77:
That summer gig is a side show. I got much better pay for summer part-time gig. I told her, she should double the pay, if she wants me in that Camp.
Main show is at my place of work, where we just renewed the Contract, however they shortened me for some 20k in pay, and they refuse to acknowledge it.
I'm having RP renewal next week. After that 'all out war'.
Now, I have problems to get bank balance statement to count for how much exactly I got shortened so far. I don't believe, BOC would make such a big problem, because old and new passport have diff. no.
Mastards, they know exactly what are they doing. It's only us, who see it as stupid.
I'll try tomorrow again at the bank down-town.
diverdude1:
medium.... but getting there,,,, and when I get there, u can bet on three bands opening up on Soku.... Eagles, Talking Heads, ZZ Top ! Funk yeah ! 
royceH:
D. Byrne? Debbie Byrne?? Shucks, that chick was my imaginary girlfriend about 40 yrs ago. She really could sing. But overall my fave is Tina Arena. I believe she's doing very well in France this past decade or so.
@icnif... just blow up the bank. And after the RP you might as well blow up the school too.
icnif77:
Not the bank, but it looks to me message to the bank came from the school. BOC is close to the Uni Campus.
And I asked Shining and ambi for help at IELTS.
I'm showing movies last 10 days. I have classes on Sat and Sun: we'll practice 'hang-man', and vowels pronunciation.
IELTS exam in September.
'Add-it': 'Got call from BOC this AM: 'Come to the bank with both passports at your convenience.'
royceH:
Do you show movies with English subs? Where do you get them? Aren't the movies from Chinese sites all in Chinglish? As are the pirated dvds. I've never done that but perhaps I would if I could get real English subs.
icnif77:
No subtitles. Movies I get from FrostWire. They asked me for one movie last week, but it was French and in French, no subtitles. LOL.
One of the girls, she's 'fashion designer & photographer'. So, she get titles from magazines, and 'voila'.
They all sleep after 10' of movie.
There is huge demand. I've known several schools (high schools as well as universities) firsthand with a shortage of non-Chinese teachers, and no native speakers in some cases.
The problem is that China both knows it needs to get non-Chinese to come, but also is loathe to admit it (and lose face by admitting that it actually needs waiguoren), and also just can't do what's needed to keep non-Chinese, or even attract them (decent working conditions, less xenophobia, good pay, etc.).
Definitely not enough teachers to satisfy the demand. But nobody is willing to pay the real money either. I don't care much for learning the language, so money is the only thing that talks to me. I wish I were tall and black, then I could teach basketball and earn a killing!
Hmmm - get no-one and get almost nothing..
Or... get in a native speaker, and lose the bonus in the teacher's pay?
Like that's a real choice!!!
Remember, the first rule of business in China is NOT make money - it's ensure that you screw someone over while making money! The "I screwed over a foreigner" is worth thousands of free lunches and dinners!!! That sort of mianzi just doesn't come along every day (week, month, year...)
icnif77:
You don't want to know, what a story I have here at the moment.
I was complaining to placement agent about the School yesterday, and I told her they made me an IELTS trainer, after they asked me to teach Precalculus, which I refused. I said to agent: 'For the good of my students, I seek help of two Native English teachers at IELTS prep, and instead 'thank you' from the school, I must look at the Gov.'s no. Again!'
She couldn't believe it. She got me into that place last year.
if there were more ethnicities on the streets here, perhaps teachers wouldn't be employed as glorified petting zoo attractions. as it stands, i don't see FTs being valued for skill anytime soon, they are only worth novelty and entertainment value. it's like how drugs lose their potency after prolonged use - giving less satisfaction. diminishing returns.
i think that's why I had such a hard time when I discovered what 'teaching' in China meant: there are no long term prospects, no investment in your experience, no opportunities to be found. just a migratory lifestyle where you need to keep moving, so your face and 'teaching style' can supply novelty and entertainment value to new faces.
It's not unlike how a con artist has to skip town after a while, having outstayed his welcome, his methods and face become too well known. teaching should not be a scam.
icnif77:
'You need to keep moving' ----> never, ever think about renewing the Contract.
It's friggin' inconvenient to keep moving every year after 6y here, but one must do that.
This is the 3rd school, which was all happy with my work and 'we want to renew' and what not. Now shorting at pay occurred for the 3rd time at the different school in the end of the contract.
I would be happy somebody would say 'we don't like how you teach English', so I could adjust. But, nobody ever complain against anything I do in the class.
Shining_brow:
Actually not true.
For those who intend this to be a career path, then they put in the effort and get the qualifications (and the appropriate experience).
With the right qualifications (which can now be done online), you can get yourself into good positions, which actually make a difference. And, you can actually teach real stuff, and get some real respect.
Granted, this isn't likely if you're sticking to kindergarten... But other than that, there's international schools, and Sino-OS university co-op programs (which can still suck).
icnif77:
@Shining: I would love to stay in one place for few years, but I can't, because of how Chinese are doing business (and lack of my extra teaching education):
1. Xinjiang promised renewal of the Contract in Nov., with Contract expiration in May. April 15th: 'we can't extend Contract, because of no funds.
2. Henan wanted me to stay long term as soon as I arrived last Sep. I told them I hate to move from place to place. School wanted to be some kind of 'Sino-Alberta' thingy, however as it looks, they changed their mind after the visit of 20 English teachers from Alberta.
All Canadian books are discontinued. New Contract is for Oral English teacher, despite I worked hard on IELTS prep since Jan. I asked for higher salary as IELTS prep teacher. Now, 'shorten pay and no flight refund', despite we signed new Contract. It's like they're telling me: 'Just quit!', what I can do, because of their Contract violations.
It's clearly not in their interest, I stay here longer time. So, what I'm going to do with 5l of Italian olive oil now?
'Never plan to stay longer, but be ready to move at Contract expiration' is my thing.
Just as the users of this site are increasing with the average of 250 people everyday..so are the number of job vacancies...
so most probably very few of them would be legit
Also we have to consider that in big cities no one is going to work at a public gov school for Y9,000 to 10,000 with a free sh*ty apartment. Well some guys over their 60's can, go retirement job. The point is that the salary doesn't match the cost of living in the city where the FT is working, so why work there if you can't save money? This what tons of my FT friends say in Shenzhen.. It sad Shenzhen loses alot of good talent and teachers because of the high cost of rent these days.
royceH:
Fair point. I have one of those jobs but I manage to save practically all of that money and live off the sly. It's to do with location location location. But one must choose wisely.
Shining_brow:
"The point is that the salary doesn't match the cost of living in the city where the FT is working"
Rubbish!!! When you look at a city, even BJ, SH or SZ, the cost of living is suited to the vast majority earning 3000-6000Y. We FT's have higher expectations - such as the accommodation and the type of food we eat. Sharing with 3 others, and eating 10Y noodles every day isn't our style - and yet, many of our co-workers are doing just that!
We could easily live in those cities on a 6000 pay, but we choose not to.
