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Posts: 226

Shifu

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Q: Avoiding confrontation - can it be dangerous to Chinese girls abroad?

One of my former students recently went to Germany as en exchange student for 6 months. Every once in a while she sends me an email to tell me how things are going over there. Her last message really frightened me.

This girl went with 3 other Chinese girls to a club on a Friday night. For two of these girls it was their first time going to one. They had a couple of drinks (by Chinese women's standards, that is already a lot), danced and were immediately surrounded, as you will be, by a pack of guys.
 

They ended up being separated. One girl was in a corner being talked up by two guys, who were 'acting very friendly', touching her shoulders, her back, etc. When her three friends 'stole' her away from him and warned her, she was surprised. She thought that's just the way things went in Europe and North America. That people were more friendly and that touching each other wasn't such a big deal.

My former student was 'called up' by a guy at the bar and took a friend of hers to go talk to him. Here's the crazy part. She didn't want to talk to him, but felt like it would 'have been rude'.

Other example: all exchange students are in the same residence building, each with their own small room. This one guy has been calling her incessantly, to the point that she'd become uncomfortable. She stopped answering and he became angry. They all share a kitchen, and so obviously they ended up crossing each other. He asked her not to ignore his calls. She said okay. One time she was singing in her room, shortly after not answering one of his calls, and he came pounding at her door. Again, they ended up seeing each other in the hallway later and she apologized, saying she wouldn't do it again. She's told me honestly she dislikes him, feels super uncomfortable around him.

The point of this wall of text: I've tried warning her, but it just seems like her, and her Chinese friends' approach is: this is the culture here OR our culture is to avoid confrontation by all means. I told her to go to the university's student services and request another room. I know, 100%, that she won't do it.

She's a good person, but unbelievably naive, and I honestly fear something might happen to her.

12 years 4 weeks ago in  Culture - China

 
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this has come up before and I personaly feel I have to do something if I come accross it first hand.
Girls come to my country as students with no life expirience and I guess that happens in China too from the country side to the big bad City.
it's probly a bit late but you nead to do the uncle thing and explane things to her.
maybe talk to her teachers and see what they can do.
the school must have some sort of commity to look after foregin students.
keep in touch and let us know what happens
best of luck

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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
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Maybe you can find some articles or true stories about these dangerous types of situations. Tell her again that this isn't normal or safe behavior in any country. Maybe you should try explaining it in terms of face? Like "In the west, you lose face by letting someone walk all over you" or "You lose face by not standing up for yourself or taking care of yourself." Even better, get a woman to talk to her, it might get through better than this information coming from a man.

It both amazes me and scares me how naive some of these girls are. We always talk about how dog eat dog it is in China. It can be just as bad in the West, we just know what rights we hae and tend to use them to our advantage. These girls don't know the signs of abuse, they don't know that they don't have to put up with it. They think it is better to be quiet. Like I mentioned, keeping quiet until something happens and everyone finds out means losing face. Telling people doesn't mean losing face. Try to tell her that.

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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
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the dude clearly is derranged. what i would do is if it is my own home country (i know the rules) i would tell her to send him a text message flat out explaining that she does not want him calling her, texting her, knocking at her door. she must be explicit that she wants no contact with him. she must understand that she is dealing with a sexual predator and that she cant talk to him , or try to "be polite", or afraid to hurt his feelings. also, she needs to notify the resident director , campus security and the local police (with the understanding that they cant do anything but she simply making them aware) and she needs to learn to be direct and honest if she is in any way manipulative when talking to these people they will assume it is her fault. tell her never to delete his emails, texts or voice mails. 
she cant send the guy mixed messages. tell her to learn this phrase "i'm sorry i dont want to talk to you!" she must learn to say it with authority and walk away from him. sexual predators prey on the weak. she must buy 3 -4 canisters of mace. she learn to use it and keep one on her at all times. and hide the rest through out her dorm. you need to tell her to imagine scenarios of him trying to attack her and how she should fight him off. 
sadly chinese culture teaches women to be mentally and physically  weak , so they make perfect victims. and it is tough for the words of a foreigner to penetrate through the indoctrination.

some may read this and think i'm over reacting but it is better to be safe than sorry. also tell her to buy a rice cooker so she can cook in her room so she can avoid him for a while. good luck because i know what it is like to try and advise a young chinese girl in this situation they just dont folloew your advise they just think it is a cultural difference or they dont want to hurt the jerk's feelings.

philbravery:

what you said is not over the top. these Bastards have no place in any part of the world. It pisses me off that there is sweet f@# all we can do about it. I think we all agree that she needs to get back up and all we can do is suggest what we have (police,school,ect)

12 years 4 weeks ago
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Jnusb416:

That reminds me. Today one of my students that usually eats meals with me mentioned protecting herself, as in she didn't really know what to do. So I told her about S.I.N.G., although at the time I forgot what the "N" stood for (it's nose, by the way). So I think I'll talk about something like that in class. My classes are mostly girls, and it wouldn't hurt to teach the boys something like this too.

12 years 4 weeks ago
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crimochina:

i know what you mean phil, as a man we are protective and usually in our home countries there are laws set up and in place for people to protect themselves from creeps. but in a country like this people are just taught to take it or else they will get punished . one of the things i quickly picked up on is that there is a group that specifically targets immigrants because they know they usually dont come from a country where they are allowed to stand up for themselves. i dont want to say too much but shat like this really pisses me off to the point of action. jnus: for us old folk what does s.i.n.g mean?

12 years 4 weeks ago
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Jnusb416:

S.I.N.G. = Solar plexis, instep, nose, groin. It's the order in which a woman should hit a man if he grabs her from behind, so he's down on the floor (hopefully) and she can run away.

12 years 4 weeks ago
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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
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I'm going through this right now. Currently, I'm private tutoring a 16 year old, very pretty girl who is going to live in Toronto this Fall. Typical Chinese youth, not only am I trying to get her English "up to par," but I find myself trying to explain to her what North American culture is all about and how to deal with it. Absolutely no one has any idea of what she is up against socially but me.

I've explained the situation to my wife, who has had to sit down and talk to this young lady how western society is sexually saturated, and what to expect when she arrives. I felt that it really wasn't appropriate for me to talk to her on these subjects, but I wanted her to know that as soon as she steps off that plane, she "won't be in Kansas, anymore."

Her innocence is commendable, but it will only be to her benefit in China. Anywhere else, it will mark her, as the saying goes, 'ripe for the picking." At times, I sound like "Dear, Abby," because I'm trying to teach her social graces (how to eat, how to dress, etc.).

In a very real sense, she is going to have to learn how to handle confrontation, and come out on the winning side, not only in terms of real survival, but in order to prosper and grow as a person going to college in the West. Learning to "say no" is a wonderful thing.

nevermind:

Boxing lessons?

12 years 4 weeks ago
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giadrosich:

I've since found out that she is taking Tai Kwan Do lessons, so my worries are somewhat abated. Time to test her to see what she can do, lol.

12 years 4 weeks ago
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philbravery:

good on you for trying to prepare her. trouble is with alot young people they think they are bullet proof and it will never happen to them.

12 years 4 weeks ago
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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
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She should certainly tell her dorm security about this POS

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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2604

Shifu

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Need to go talk to security about that. Remember that one guy at Virginia Tech that started doing that sort of stuff stalking. Yeah he had a mental breakdown and we all know what happened then. I knew a guy that shot himself in the head with a shotgun because his girlfriend wouldn't see him anymore because of the distance. I wouldn't be surprised if this person is an extremist. He's already showing signs by pounding on the door and telling your friend that she better not miss a phone call. Need to have something done ASAP get the security and need to watch that cat.

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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
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She should feel uncomfortable around him. That's good. Means she isn't as naive as one might think. 

She needs to go to the campus security. If they do nothing, or tell her not to sweat it, she needs to go to the police and file a report. Stalking is a criminal offence in Germany, punishable by 3-5 years in prison. 

If she has a advisor she can talk to, or any of her professors she feels comfortable telling, her roommate, any close friends... making people she is close with aware, who can advise her what to do and who to talk to, is recommended. 

One thing we tell people who feel they are being stalked, keep a journal of every interaction, including time, date, place, what is said, and tone. Also include how it made her feel. (threatened, scared, anxious, all the above)

She has done good not confronting him or not being confrontational. Angering a stalker, not a good idea, unless you are sure you can kick his ass. Even then, many stalkers carry weapons, or objects that can be used as weapons. 

And I hate to say this, but if he isn't removed from her surroundings, then she should remove herself. If she is given an order of protection, if he violates it at all, even if he claims it to be accidental, she needs to report it.

If she can get her hands on some mace or pepper spray, she should carry it. 

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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
Posts: 47

Governor

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Firstly, Panda, carrying mace or pepper spray can get the girl arrested in the EU. So that's horrendous advice.

Secondly, we don't know the nationality of the other person. Perhaps he has just 'fallen in love' and, we all know how that is, you can become crazy. If she flat out tells him she doesn't want anything to do with him, then he'd have no excuse, as heartbroken as he may be.

Another one is that I'm not sure in the club situation that it's normal for your friends to 'pull you away'. In the UK if a girl likes you in a club and you like her and her friends come over and pull her away, she'd be pretty pissed off. All the Chinese girls aren't so defenceless that they can't handle flirting with boys in a bar? It's local / worldwide culture to flirt in a nightclub and talk and chat, why are we telling the Chinese not to get involved in that?

ady:

For a young girl's first time in a nightclub, in a foreign country, with a completely different culture, maybe it's not that obvious...

12 years 4 weeks ago
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crimochina:

wtf another dumb wu mao? you clearly dont know a god damn thing. 1. who the puck cares if it is illegal to carry mace my life is worth more than the fine. 2. what does nationality have to do with it? clearly you are chinese and therefore have very little "life " experience so i shouldnt be too rough on you 3. so damn what if he is in love, love is not an excuse to annoy and intimidate . love is not an excuse to try and force someone to love you. 4. club scene what do you know about the club scene? the reason why girls go to the club together is so they can intervene when one is making a bad decision. you clearly never been to the club (outside of china). but like i said you are a local and have no experience outside of china actually i think you are right we dont know his nationality maybe he is from a country that spoils their boys, so that they believe they are entitled to always have their way . so they grow up to be narcissistic nightmares. i wonder what country could he be from. just to educate the racist nationalist morons out there . bad behavior is bad behavior period. regardless of race, nationality, gender, age, or religion. wake up

12 years 4 weeks ago
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crimochina:

and by the way in GERMANY it is legal to carry pepper spray. further evidence you are a phony thinking the EU has 1 set of laws someone from london should know that.

12 years 4 weeks ago
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HugAPanda:

LOL You're an idiot. Did you even read what the OP wrote? You're not even worth debating with. :) If you think anything that the man in the OP's post did was... healthy behavior, then you're either a stalker or wife beater, or will be. Turn yourself in now and save everyone the sorrow later on.

12 years 4 weeks ago
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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
Posts: 47

Governor

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Crimochina you absolute moron. The Treaties of Rome and Maascricht mean that the EU law now over-rides existing national law, so in effect ANY EU legislation must be enforced legally in all those countries in the EU.

Secondly, I read the post hugapanda, and where did she tell the guy she was uncomfortable? I'm sorry but she has to TELL HIM before he can get the message, otherwise he may just think it is Chinese culture to play hard to get or something. If I send messages and phone a girl up and she doesn't tell me she doesn't like it, what am I to believe? (Although yes, as a westerner I would probably be aware that 2 non replied texts or calls means = no thank you, but in some countries constantly calling might be the thing. Here in China many of my Chinese friends are called constantly by their girlfriends, they love each other but oftne they ignore the phone calls to each other because they have nothing to say.

Lastly, on to the other guy about the club, why didn't the girls go out in China?Although perhaps Chinese parents prevented that. Beside that I do not see what is wrong with a group of guys talking and flirting with a group of girls. Am I missing something? Should w e all immediatley stop, and, when in a club, ONLY talk to our friends? As soon as I see my friend talking to a guy or a girl I'll immediatley pull them away. S'all good.

12 years 4 weeks ago
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crimochina:

ahh douche bag not answering the phone sends a clear message!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


actions speak louder than words

12 years 4 weeks ago
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crimochina:

by the way asshole that treaty deals with commerce trade, security and economics.

also you are using bf / gf as an example. you dont know the difference between that and this situation???

you dont know why her friends would take her(singular) away from a group of guys in a club? (she is in a new anf foreign environment, and you dont wait until they bring her to their place before you go looking for her) i hope you never have daughters. i hope you dont have a mother or sister either (too late for that) you clearly are de ranged yourself if you are manipulating the facts to blame her.and how the puck do clubs in china come into this? have you been to the clubs in china? is the club in germany some how located in china? why do you keep trying to make this about china?

very simple she did not answer his calls. (she is not his property) any functional human being would stop calling! he found her and told her not to ignore him. that at the very least is intimidating behaviour signs of a sociopath. after she did not answer his calls again he went banging on her door. for a retard or sociopath or narcist that may not seem like a bad thing. it is her fault because she did not say the words even though the actions can not be disputed. you dont need a translator or a cultural dictionary to understand what not answering the phone means. 
now i will entertain your silly argument about "playing hard to get" that is an excuse to keep calling?? i will give you that BS argument. that is no excuse to go banging on her door or telling her not to ignore your calls. no way no how. which culture is calling a girl that you are pursuing endlessly acceptable? you contrdict yourself when you bring up "playing hard to get"  and gf/bf calling each other endlessly as a sign of love . you dont play hard to get w/ your bf becoz he already "got you".   it's call fractured thinking. you're undiagnosed. 

12 years 4 weeks ago
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crimochina:

and yeah you are a westerner. the western part of which province in china?

12 years 4 weeks ago
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crimochina:

and another thing phony . as someone who claims to be from london. you should know that EU policys dont override any countries laws they instead must be adopted by said govts. example uk has not adopted the euro but is still in the eu guess which country london is in?

12 years 4 weeks ago
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crimochina:

why am i wasting my time with a brain dead wu mao. "as a westerner" ( we westerners always refer to ourselves as such) i have better things to do.

12 years 4 weeks ago
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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1911

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Boqie,

No person is OBLIGATED to tell a person who they feel uncomfortable around that they are uncomfortable. He has NO right to bang on her door and INSIST that she answer her phone when he calls. That's plain and simple bullshit. With that mentality, one would have to tell a rapist that they didn't want to be raped, a murderer that they didn't want to be shot, a burgular that they didn't wish to be robbed.. And if you believe anything else... you are as ignorant as you are coming across. 

And yes, in Germany, you are allowed to carry pepper spray/mace as long as it is labeled for use on animals, and if it is used in self-defense, you won't be in trouble.

The man, from the facts that were presented to us in the OPs post, is exhibiting signs of a potential stalker or rapist. No woman is obligated to subject herself to any situation in which she is uncomfortable. She does not owe him any explanation, she owes him NOTHING NADA ZILCH.

Whether or not he fell in love with her in that very short time they spoke in the bar (that's a whole other issue), she owes him NOTHING.

And seriously, if you are under the belief that a woman owes you something because you spent 10 minutes talking or because you buy her dinner or a drunk or smiled charmingly... you are as whacked as any stalker I have come across.

She deserves the same respect as any woman would in any country, regardless of where she is from. If ANY man came to my door, uninvited, banged, demanded I do anything... he better be prepared to eat his own testicles. 

giadrosich:

Don't mention the last sentence too loudly, It could become the latest "craze" dish in Beijing!

12 years 4 weeks ago
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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
Posts: 44

Governor

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Keep urging her to change rooms and tell her that these things aren't normal.

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12 years 3 weeks ago
 
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