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Q: Best places to live In China where there arent so many foreigners
Recently i been staying in Shanghai, then Shenzhen,Suzhou a little and travelling i notice the places with so many foreigners and i feel and experience how the ever increasing globalized world is becoming more and more western like. I see Modern top tier cities in China becoming jam packed with KFC'S MacDonalds and although its a far way off Becoming like New York or London in style ,weekly it advances to reach that kind of state. Partly i feel because it desires to emulate the west's comfortable living style increasingly more .But im here to ask people for their views or experiences of places with less foreigners and much less western influence and where one can feels less like in US and more like China,not that i think China is exactly like western cities but i did come here for an experience of China and not so much China with western style of living and shops etc.
I know Shanghai is obviously not the place to be if one wants to experience China before so much western influence
Any advice or thoughts?
Thanks In advance for any comments
* Hefei. At the time I was there, visible foreigners (lots of Japanese there, but they are invisible) were really rare. There are more of them now, because industries are moving to Hefei (cheap labor force). It's a city (5 millions people) so there's cinema, shops and all those kind of things. It's an Anhui, which is not as fancy as the coastal provinces. I'm not sure what you want to do, but Hefei job's market have room for some foreigners.
* Small towns (less than a million) in poor inner provinces like Ganxu or Shanxi. No worries, you won't see much foreigners there. Getting a job might be a bit hard, but who knows, try ! If you are into education, some universities will be glad to have you, if you are not looking for money. You won't be in a Western environment, at best, it will be very poor imitations of imitations. If you such a move for one year or more, it can be hard at time. Don't except anybody to really understand you. You will be alone, utterly alone, even with a crowd of local friends. It's not bad but not good for everybody.
Definitely take Dr.Monkey's advice about smaller cities to heart - there are benefits but also serious detriments to being a lone expat. I work in a small city myself, and it's a lonely view.
As for the "China experience", expect disappointment. China has sold off its rich cultural heritage (assuming it wasn't all a glorified myth in the first place) for a bit of extra economic growth. Whether you are surrounded by 'modern' wannabes and their epic-fail-attempts to emulate western/modern life, or you immerse yourself in 'traditional' lifestyle in a smaller town, people are roughly the same.
They have all grown up in a society that pick on the weak without remorse, so wherever you go and whatever it looks like, it's still a playground for the rich. Nobody says sorry, thank you or please to strangers, unless they're trying to be friendly. People are friendly to satisfy their curiosity, or for some other reason; never spontaneously.
Everyone cares about mianzi/facesaving as an anti-bullying survival tactic. People are shallow and materialistic; easily groomed by wealthy suitors. Everyone chases wealth without creativity, because wealth is power, and protection from bullying. Lacking savings, people borrow all they can to buy cars, houses, iPad and other status symbols to augment their image, gain acceptance, and not become a target. The country is so corrupt that it has become a norm. People are very cowardly, unwilling to defend their own interests or stand up to antisocial behaviour.
Appearances are most important to Chinese, and their me-first attitude has ruined the services in the country. Customer service gets worse the higher up the ladder. If people feel they do important work, they become lazy and entitled, and you'll notice this in bank most of all.
Education is a lucrative business, but hopelessly ineffective in teaching people useful skills. Parents have certain rote-learning style expectations of education, so schools do their best to create a professional *appearance* for the money and the examination scores, but care nothing about education.
Hospitals are a disaster wherever you go, but at least the bigger hospitals in cities have some competent staff. They have no bedside manner, and will make alarming statements like "your baby's head has a strange shape" to pregnant mothers (my wife can attest), while there's nothing wrong at all. Regardless of whether they adopt Traditional Chinese Medicine as treatment or not, good health care is seriously lacking. You must pay through the nose for and hope/pray you're not being poisoned/screwed accidentally/deliberately.
Want Chinese culture? Hrrrm, should be hoardes of wreckless E-bike riders and plenty of shopping malls in most places you go. Go get some! Mcworld is very strong in China, so you won't find much of what you want.
Hotan (Khotan), Taklamakan.
sam239:
but is it safe there? a local told me it would be safe to visit but not to stay due to kidnapping risks.
royceH:
That's the city south of the Taklamakan Desert, right?
If so, I haven't been there. But my wife and friend have. It has a significant Uyghir culture and hasn't been without some Ethnic drama in the past. But I don't know that it's any more dangerous than other places is the south and south west of Xinjiang.
diverdude1:
yep, that's the place. I haven't been there either. just a dream/goal of mine to traverse the Taklamakan (North - South) on bicycle. The whole region fascinates me.
royceH:
There's a new highway that goes right through it now and I'd bet they won't let bikes on it.
Don't get sucked into paying the equivalent of a house on one of their desert jade stones.
I think you want India they still use rickshaws. China has always had cities. I think China had the biggest train station in the world, tore it down and now want to rebuild it. The only place you can see old China is rural. I saw an ''Old Town'' outside Guilin, narrow streets old style buildings with sliding wood doors, the back of the buildings were often 3 storey new block buildings.
Try Nepeal, Xinjiang, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan,,,, places nobody has ever heard of or can pronounce or wants to go to.
TedDBayer:
really? I suggest the op try Tajikistan, the womens eyebrows are really something.
If you want to find "real China" I don't think you need to go very far.
Just go up the narrow lane at the side of McDonalds and go into the village behind.
I live outside of GZ and I know of lots of places that can be described as the OP wants. People cooking with wood fires outside the houses, old people in their open fronted mud brick huts, ponds and streams that are no more than open sewers.
You just need to go to where the factory workers, street vendors and recyclers live. Even in big con-urbanized areas there are still places where foreigners are never seen. It's not very scenic, but it is the real China where most Chinese live. It's where the migrant workers can live cheap so they can save money to buy an apartment in their home towns.
The problem foreigners will have is getting the Police registration to live there
.
diverdude1:
yep, I tried to rent an apartment in an area exactly as you have described (city in Guangdong) and my chinese gf kept telling me it wasn't a good idea. I kept pressing her as to why. she kept on with vague explanations like, it's not for white people (or whatever word she used, that's what she meant), and that it was 'all chinese' , and just a lot of other things why I shouldn't/couldn't live there. Then finally after I pushed a bit, she told me also that the police would not allow it! I never forgot that.
btw: this was around the end of my first year in chinaland
ScotsAlan:
Yup diverdude. We would all like to live the dream and stay there.... but the simple fact is you will eventually have your house robbed. That's why the Police say no. Do you agree?
Don't get me wrong, the people are good. But it's expecting too much to have 40 thousand neighbours without a single wrong un amongst them.
The OP's suggestion is rather like me visiting America and wanting to stay in the real Detroit.
diverdude1:
I didn't wanna come right out and say it, but, yep that's the reason. That place was friggin' crazy at night... I didn't live there, but I hung-out there plenty of nights, and came back and walked through early in the morning. I'm not sure how to describe it, but you take a few thousand kinda wild people and booze them up on beer and baijiu & maotai and let them loose (the 'police' don't give a flip what happens there) and the result looks just like what u might expect. A living Train-wreck.
The Detroit comparison was spot-on.
I'm not double answering because I want the points.
I have been thinking about the question and I want to bump this thread up.
Effectively, what the OP want's to see is poverty. Because that's the real China, away from the western fast food joints and neon lights.
I can see why he want's to see it, but at the same time I personally would rather it not be there for him to see. What are the real motives behind the question?
Is it because he wants to take photos of poverty?. Have stories to tell? Perhaps he want's to help? Ask his Church for money to spread the "doing good buzz"?
This is a complex issue. rather like the lost tribes of South America. Rockstar Sting want's them to stay pure and untouched. But maybe the people themselves are getting fed up with high infant mortality rates and eating grubs. Why should anyone have the right to deny another individual anything that we take for granted.
It's a bit like saying " I am smarter than you, and although you don't know about it or even understand why, I have decided on your behalf to deny you access to fast food...because it's rubbish"
Hollywood want's Tibet to go back to what it was. A feudal superstitious society led by some dude who was selected as the boss because of dreams and the orientation of the stars. And that's fine, because it lets the Hollywood types make an annual trip to see their favourite Lama and then do TV interviews about how fantastic it was.
If I was living in a desperately poor place with no facilities, the last thing I would want is some rich foreign dude visiting me for two weeks telling me how lucky I am to have such a glorious simple life.
Just my opinion. The subject is well worth a debate I reckon.
The OP asked a good question.
expatlife26:
Yeah i agree scots interesting topic.
One of the best pieces of wisdom out there is to ignore what people say and watch what they do.
For example in China where people have the option to live as "westernized" a life as possible they take that option 10 times of out 10. They may say they love chinese culture...but clearly not enough to actually subscribe to that kind of life.
And they every reason not to! The alternative is feudal subsistence farming.
I really disdain expats who say they want the "real china experience"...because I think the real china experience is pretty awful and frankly so do most Chinese people who would kill to escape it.
There's nothing cool about poverty, what would have been interesting to experience about lost cultures such as Rome, Greece, Egypt, Imperial China etc. are seeing how the wealthy lived because it would have been mostly tolerable but different from what we're used to. The average people in all of those instances were going to be living like shit. Boring, dull subsistence farming in dirty conditions or getting worked to death.
ScotsAlan:
I don't mean to sound critical of the OP's question. As I said, I think it's a good question. My rant was more of a general comment on the concept of cultural tourism.
I am sure he will he will find what he is looking for. I hope he does. But... once he finds it... it will have changed... because he is there. Personally, I think that is a good thing. It means the OP can take the hassle for being the first
.
But I think it's wrong to assume a place is westernized just because it has a McDonalds. We all know these places are opened for the Chinese consumers. And there are plenty of towns that have a McDonalds (or at least a copy) without having any resident foreigners.
After all, everything here comes with " Chinese Characteristics ".
I spent enough time in small town China to know it just isn’t worth trouble. If you go to an isolated village you are even more of a spectacle than normal in China. My experience was that I encountered the worst part of China in a village, the ignorance multiplied times a hundred. I thought the people in Guangzhou could be rude and ignorant but at least they don’t actively follow me and point and snicker amongst themselves.
expatlife26:
well yeah thats the problem theres really nobody cool out there.
sam239:
You just went to a place with a high concentration of a-holes, there are better spots out there.
ScotsAlan:
I had a crowd following me in my wife's hometown about 5 years ago. Not nice at all. I went back last year, I got the pointing and staring but not the following thankfully.
Language can be an issue. Not many people in my wife's hometown speak Mandarin. But I still managed to buy beer
.
I live in Anhui for about 8 months when I first moved here in 2009. It was ok I guess...I was 22 and and fresh out of university.
Was it an interesting experience and do I feel slightly better informed on what the world is like having done it? Yeah absolutely.
Would I willingly do it again? Fuck no.
Other than as a temporary learning experience on the value of good planning and hard work (so you don't HAVE to live some place like that!)...the only thing you get out of it is tons of unearned praise from ignorant people. You ARE special and you don't have to accomplish anything to be so. It makes you lazy...why accomplish anything if you don't have to?
I am much more satisfied with my life as a professional in a big city than I was as a teacher in a small one.
expatlife26:
good point, let me qualify that statement. I would consider teaching a professional position for someone who has the background to make a solid career of it. someone who takes it seriously and wants to build their life around the job of teaching.
I would not consider people who are just kinda traveling around/hanging out/screwing around facilitated by a teaching paycheck they don't take seriously as professionals.
So a teacher can be, but is not necessarily a professional
sam239:
Well same applies to business world, I know plenty of jacka____s from uni who drank and partied in their frat houses for nights a week but in the course of that made the business connections to land "good" analyst jobs straight after graduation. This seems about on the same level as the travelling teachers you described.
Also what you say about being treated as "special" probably holds true for a visitor to any smaller city around the planet, in big cities you just blend in (a simple fact of numbers) but in small cities a single person stands out more. Not necessarily a result of being an expat in China (but maybe the sexual attention is a result of this and would not be experienced by visitors to cities in other countries)
expatlife26:
Hey plenty of people screwed around a lot in college... I did though I wasn't in a frat. But they screwed around in a way that mightve opened doors for them after graduation.
Then they probably got their acts together once they got their analyst jobs OR they quickly LOST their analyst jobs because in the private sector you need to perform or be out on your ass. Do you think I go out partying and drinking every night? Hell no.
Should you look at a successful 30 year old who is serious about their career and say "you're a phony because you used to drink a lot when you were 19?" Hell no.
But no regardless of who you were in college that doesn't mean someone that currently does not take themselves or their career seriously is a professional. And someone who does currently take it seriously probably is.
I had a good time in Jinghong in the southwest of Yunnan, a beautiful city along the Lincang/Mekong River with a nice blend of Chinese/Han, Burmese (even some Indians among them, some of them speak near fluent English) and Tai people. Very good food - you could taste the quality of the ingredients, good meat and so forth - clean air, low cost of living. There were plenty of foreigners but no westerners.
Look for a place that's cleaner and more ethnically diverse than other places. I visited Yunnan earlier this year and found both those things there. If I didn't live where I do, I'd live in Yunnan.
Both cleaner and ethnically diverse are evident where I do live though. North west Xinjiang. Yes, Chinese... but different.
Qingdao has a lot of urban places.....
and villagers too....
All i can say is these are excellent replies and just want to say thanks for taking the time to Answer them.
ScotsAlan:
Thanks for coming back to respond ricard
. What's your plan of action? Are you heading out into the wilderness? Please keep us updated on your experiences. Many people following your footsteps will be keen to know how you get on.
All i can say is these are excellent replies and just want to say thanks for taking the time to Answer them.
Almost any place with an urban population less that 2 million.
For cities like the ones you mentioned try going 100 km from the core.
A good example is Chengdu. 10 million people and a modern urban core by western standards. But go 20 km from Tian fu square and you'll find the real China.
These people don't even speak mandarin. But don't go to modern cities that have been built in the last 30 years.
I being a Brit thatn lived in Nanning for six months and enjoyed every minute of it. I saw one non Chinese man in six months. So there obviously are not too many foregners in Nanning.
donnie3857:
go to the university; there are about 20 foreigners from Canada, US, and Great Britain.
And that's just one University
I Britishand lived in Zhangjiagang until recently for a period of 3.6 years. Zhangjiagang 1 hour west of Suzhou. It's beautiful, clean and safe. I mean really clean. There are lot's of parks to relax and not too many foreigners.I lived a 2 minute walk from Walking Street. I owned a car, bicycle and e-bike so on free time I could to Suzhou/Shanghai or into the countryside. McD's is located 2-3 km outside on the ring road, Maybe that because KFC has 3, yes 3 outlets in Walking Street, each end and the middle. To do and see well I guess you make your own plan, as for the people well they are really welcoming and friendly. Although the city suited myself and I was sorry to leave, it may not suit all. I moved to Hankou district of Wuhan, with very deep regret, dirty filthy place, and not so friendly natives. Goods luck with the travels
come to jing hai, tianjin, no bars, no foreigners.
http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/china-foreign-teachers-rate-hangzh...
I agree with the top three picks. Beihai and Zhuhai are heaven on Earth as well - kind of like a poor man's Sanya.
I have been in Jiuquan, Gansu province, for 8 months. There is not even a McDonalds here. Of course, there are only two westerners in this whole place, myself and my other myself whenever I see a mirror
royceH:
I've been told that in Gansu women aren't allowed to eat in the same room as the men, have you found that?
haven't experienced men and women together in the same roon
My advice is to not experience the country side of China. They are completely devoid of common courtesy,privacy,etc. Unless you just like that kind of environment,however unlikely. I have lived in a city where I am the only foreigner, and I have not spoke to anyone whose first language is English for 2 years now. It's not fun or interesting, more like isolation in a sea of people who constantly remind you that you are different in every way.


























