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Sign up with Google Sign up with FacebookQ: better laowai or yang guizi?
i actually always found yang guizi a nice word with some kind of nostalgic orientalism vibe...what about u?laowai or yang guizi? Please vote!
If a black guy walks past me in the UK and all the people around stop and stare, point and say things likes "look a black person!" or "look a coloured person!", I don't think there'd be a question about whether black or coloured is more appropriate. People in civilized countries don't behave that way (or shouldn't and for the most part hopefully don't). The problem is the childish reaction in adults, children being taught that someone else is different, and the whole "us and them" mentality.
happywanderer:
And yeah - I don't always say things in a very politically correct way but I'm sure you get the gist.
vuducknudle:
nobody uses coloured unless you are from the 1950's. It's a sure bet if a black person walks through a small hick town they are going to get some looks if for no other reason than curiousity. In the West however you can add suspicion in with the curiosity. It's human nature to check out what is new or foreign particularly if you have never experienced it before. More Western hypocrisy to judge what 'civilized' and what isn't without cleaning your own house first.
Laowai is OK. Waiguoren is A-OK.
Yangguizi? I retort with "riben guizi." That makes them sooo mad.
I really don't see the problem with laowai. It's just an informal way of saying foreigner. If you ask me if I am caucasian or white I will say I'm white. On government forms I would check the caucasian box. It seems to me that people in the west simply want an excuse to paint themselves as victims. It's very stylish. Hell even the wealthy and straight christian white males can find ways to paint themselves as victims. That being said, languages are living and if many chinese have negative encounters with foreigners then laowai will take on a negative connotation. As it stands there is laoshi, laoban, laobar, laohuar. All these refer to positions worthy of respect.
Englteachted:
So in your country of whatever, it would be ok to run around to every Chinese person and say "foreigner"? Yes or No?
vuducknudle:
I haven't seen any chinese running around to every foreigner saying laowai. So I suppose the answer is no. But I don't take offensive to the term. It's an informal way of speaking. You can say african-american or you can say black. you can say caucasion or you can say white. What's the big deal?
If a black guy walks past me in the UK and all the people around stop and stare, point and say things likes "look a black person!" or "look a coloured person!", I don't think there'd be a question about whether black or coloured is more appropriate. People in civilized countries don't behave that way (or shouldn't and for the most part hopefully don't). The problem is the childish reaction in adults, children being taught that someone else is different, and the whole "us and them" mentality.
happywanderer:
And yeah - I don't always say things in a very politically correct way but I'm sure you get the gist.
vuducknudle:
nobody uses coloured unless you are from the 1950's. It's a sure bet if a black person walks through a small hick town they are going to get some looks if for no other reason than curiousity. In the West however you can add suspicion in with the curiosity. It's human nature to check out what is new or foreign particularly if you have never experienced it before. More Western hypocrisy to judge what 'civilized' and what isn't without cleaning your own house first.
I vote for neither of them.
It's like voting if slope is better than Chink. I haven't met any Han Chinese who want to be referred to as either, especially when living outside of China.
I don't point and shout ethnic slurs at people, and I wouldn't want them doing the same. I also don't try to pretend that a slur is just an informal expression.
Years ago when my family lived in Taiwan, we heard "yangguizi" all the time. The phrase, meaning "foreign devil"-- is a term of abuse for westerners, very derogatory. At least the term "laowai" has a friendlier connotation. People usually say it "at" me in a non-hostile manner, and I either ignore it or smile sweetly at them and go on my way. Still, name-calling is name-calling.
Years ago when my family lived in Taiwan, we heard "yangguizi" all the time. The phrase, meaning "foreign devil"-- is a term of abuse for westerners, very derogatory. At least the term "laowai" has a friendlier connotation. People usually say it "at" me in a non-hostile manner, and I either ignore it or smile sweetly at them and go on my way. Still, name-calling is name-calling.
"Oriental" is a racist term, you fascist skinhead neo-nazi
I can't believe some people in this world could be so ignorant. The word "Polish" is not offensive. But if every non polish person started to stare at polish people and say "polish" that would be harassment. That would be the worse kind of harassment; organized and consistent which can be equal to torture.
Ask yourself this question, are you less social since coming here? Do you smile less at children? Are you less friendly? Have you developed a subconscious hatred for the people here (even though you constantly tell yourself the excuses and reasons for the people's behavior)?
No one I have met has demanded compensation or requested therapy sessions (that would be playing the victim). We simply talk to each other about it.
So pointing the finger at the recipients of the rude behavior and saying it is your fault for complaining about it is just plain .... there is not a word for that type of ignorance.
As someone above said, this is not done in civilized societies. And if a Chinese abroad was called foreigner just once , I bet they would run to the nearest police officer to file a compliant.
I would prefer neither. When at home recently I contemplated the reaction of anyone i passed if i said 'Asian' or 'African' to a child. Why would i need to do that? So I just smile to myself and continue on my way when i hear 'laowai'. If people want to make a snap judgment based on appearance, then that is their problem, not mine.
JustinF:
Laowai means foreigner, not white. "Bai mogui" would be the insult.
Mateusz:
JustinF:
It doesn't mean "foreigner". Literally, it'd be closer to "old outside", but that really doesn't convey the meaning the way it's used. After all, "chink" just means, literally, a crack in something (most often, armor), but that's not really how it's used when referring to a specific group of people.
Also, if it just means "foreigner", a term impolite in and of itself, as it focuses on exclusion, then why do people talk about someone "looking foreign", or having a "foreign face"? I've seen people referred to as "laowai" just because of their race, with the people making the comment having no idea where the perceived "foreigners" were from. Simply because someone is white, they are laowai. What I have never seen, though, is someone in China pointing at a yellow person,and shouting "Laowai!", regardless of that person's national status.
To deny that "laowai" has a racial, and racist, connotation is either ignorance, or disingenuous.
hunkydory13:
I prefer disingenuous. Mostly I hear it from children or old folks in out of the way places and rarely in a hostile manner. City-dwellers and the younger generation don't do it. Like it or not, how we conduct ourselves while living in this crazy country either reinforces or dispels misconceptions.
JustinF:
@Mateusz: laowai and chink don't have the same connotation. Chink is based on race and its equivalent would be cracker or honky. By definition, laowai means someone who comes from a foreign land, an outsider. This includes Whites, Blacks, Browns And Yellows. Laowai can also mean Chinese people from a different tribe (in older times) or different town/city/region. Some laowais are easier to spot at first sight because of their looks, so they get pointed at and get called laowai. However, once you stop wandering in your own expat group or expat-influenced Chinese groupand start integrating groups of locals you'll learn that it's different. I don't get pointed at nor get called names by passing strangers, and at the beginning, i was also under the belief that the term laowai only designated whites (with racial but not racist connotations), until i started getting more and more involved with locals. At which point, i learned that Blacks, Browns (obvious looks at first sight) and Yellows also get called laowai. Getting a more diverse group of people to hang out with might let you learn a few new things. Again, the term that is used in Chinese to call whites with racist (and racial) overtones is bai mogui 白魔鬼 (white devil, cracker, honky), the exact same translated words that have been used by all civilisations in the world to call Whites with racist overtones.
yang guizi was a term used for the foreign invaders in the qing dynasty, according to chinese history classes, they are taught that 8 different foreign invaders were in the county at that time at the end of the dynasty.