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Q: Can COVID-19 be controlled having good economy ?
3 years 50 weeks ago in Health & Safety - China
what do you think?
i'd really like to hear your thoughts on this, so i can consider a response
icnif77:
These questions come like a police interogation ... 'you TELL .., and I'll listen ..' 
what do you think?
i'd really like to hear your thoughts on this, so i can consider a response
icnif77:
These questions come like a police interogation ... 'you TELL .., and I'll listen ..'
Nah, it's going to mutate, come back harder than ever and completely root us. It might even result in zombies.
Not to worry though, I have a plan....
Stiggs:
Just like Shaun of the Dead. 
If you're wondering how to navigate these troubled times, especially if the virus does mutate and kick off a zombie apocalypse, Shaun of the Dead is probably the best documentary on the subject out there. 
Yes ... from Oz ... scientist ...
"A remarkable coincidence or a sign of human intervention."
A study led by Flinders University vaccine researcher Nikolai Petrovsky in Australia reveals that SARS-CoV-2, the virus which causes COVID-19, is optimized for penetration into human cells vs. animal cells - undermining the theory that it naturally evolved in animals before jumping to humans, according to LifeSiteNews' Matthew Cullinan Hoffman.
Petrovsky says that the results, which are not peer-reviewed, suggest "a remarkable coincidence or a sign of human intervention."
The authors of the study, led by vaccine researcher Nikolai Petrovsky of Flinders University in Australia, used a version of the novel coronavirus collected in the earliest days of the outbreak and applied computer models to test its capacity to bind to certain cell receptor enzymes, called “ACE2,” that allow the virus to infect human and animal cells to varying degrees of efficacy.
They tested the propensity of the COVID-19 virus’s spike protein, which it uses to enter cells, to bind to the human type of ACE2 as well as to many different animal versions of ACE2, and found that the novel coronavirus most powerfully binds with human ACE2, and with variously lesser degrees of effectiveness with animal versions of the receptor.
According to the study’s authors, this implies that the virus that causes COVID-19 did not come from an animal intermediary, but became specialized for human cell penetration by living previously in human cells, quite possibly in a laboratory. -LifeSiteNews
A "possibility which still cannot be excluded is that SARSCoV-2 was created by a recombination event that occurred inadvertently or consciously in a laboratory handling coronaviruses, with the new virus then accidentally released into the local human population," they added.
Engineered, naturally...
In a separate statement about the research, Petrovsky suggested that SARS-CoV-2 may not have been 'spliced' - which would leave fingerprints of genetic manipulation - but was instead 'cultured' to evolve.
... more ...
https://nationalinterest.org/feature/chinas-changing-international-norms...
China's Changing of International Norms Could Lead to Chaos
The coronavirus is showing the world that Beijing isn’t just seeking to avoid accountability, it is seeking to change the rules.
The WHO abetted Beijing’s cover-up by repeating Chinese government talking points, failing to investigate the spread among medical personnel, and praising China’s management of the new disease. A study from England’s Southhampton University found that “if interventions in the country could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier, cases could have been reduced by 66 percent, 86 percent and 95 percent respectively – significantly limiting the geographical spread of the disease.”
The WHO abetted Beijing’s cover-up by repeating Chinese government talking points, failing to investigate the spread among medical personnel, and praising China’s management of the new disease. A study from England’s Southhampton University found that “if interventions in the country could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier, cases could have been reduced by 66 percent, 86 percent and 95 percent respectively – significantly limiting the geographical spread of the disease.”
Had China shared information earlier about the human-to-human transmission, other governments could have used the time to prepare health personnel and facilities, to create screening protocols for overseas travelers, and to tell the public how to begin protecting themselves from infection. According to one study by Axios, those three weeks might have given the world time to keep of provincial outbreak from becoming a global pandemic.
more ...
icnif77:
Where did all 'scientists' go ...? 
New report is out ...
A scientific study in Australia has found that SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that has led to a pandemic, was likely created in a lab, barring some “remarkable coincidence” that led to the virus naturally evolving to be optimised to attack human cells.
The study was led by Nikolai Petrovsky, a vaccine researcher at Flinders University. The scientists in his team discovered that the coronavirus is optimized for penetration into human cells, rather than animal cells, which means that the theory that it emerged from an animal market and jumped to humans naturally is unlikely.
Lifesite News reports that the scientists “used a version of the novel coronavirus collected in the earliest days of the outbreak and applied computer models to test its capacity to bind to certain cell receptor enzymes, called “ACE2,” that allow the virus to infect human and animal cells to varying degrees of efficacy.”
“They found that “the novel coronavirus most powerfully binds with human ACE2, and with variously lesser degrees of effectiveness with animal versions of the receptor.”
The authors believe this means that the virus “became specialized for human cell penetration by living previously in human cells, quite possibly in a laboratory.”
The Study notes that “a virus would be expected to have highest affinity for the receptor in its original host species, e.g. bat, with a lower initial binding affinity for the receptor of any new host, e.g. humans. However, in this case, the affinity of SARS-CoV-2 is higher for humans than for the putative original host species, bats, or for any potential intermediary host species.”
It continues, noting that a “possibility which still cannot be excluded is that SARSCoV-2 was created by a recombination event that occurred inadvertently or consciously in a laboratory handling coronaviruses, with the new virus then accidentally released into the local human population.”
Dr Petrovsky added in a statement that, rather than being rapidly genetically spliced and mutated, the virus shows signs of being ‘cultured’ to evolve over time.
.. more ..
I hope mid of july crona virus down ..vaccine making process soonly
Stiggs:
I can't see the virus going away anytime soon, maybe mid July 2021 ...
sorrel:
@ Stiggs,
maybe by June/July most people will have had the virus, given that 80% will expereince little to no symptoms.
Isolation has just lengthened the time that the virus will be active in the population - hence the 'second wave'.
This will be the virus resurging after people emerging from isolation.
I know people who have tested positive after experienceing nothing more than a bad cold (and this in March/April) how are now completely recovered and concerned that they are not allowed exercise to regain a reasonable level of fitness - and be allowed on with their lives. Chances are that a percenatge of people have had the virsu before any 'lock-down' was even instituted.
Granted there are those who will be vulernable to more extreme symptoms, and they should be cautious, but for the majority, exposure may be the healthiest option.
the longer people isolate, the longer the virus will be around, to say nothing of the negative imapct in people's mental health and overall physical well-being that isolation brings.
Stiggs:
Yep, it's looking like the world may as well throw in the towel , let it wash over us and deal with whatever comes because for most countries there's no chance of eliminating it and staying in lockdown until we can get everyone vaccinated isn't an option either.
Covid has won this round I'd say.
sorrel:
@ Stiggs,
viruses come and go.
that is nature.
being responsible for for your own life and health will determine how you cope with this and any virus.
life is not risk free - every day you step outside your door you open yourself to risk.
even staying in your room is a risk.
making people frightened and living with fear is not a way to live, but it is a way to control people.
bottom line for me is:
allow people to be adults and therefore responsible for themselves.
if you chose to smoke you are responsible for any smoking related illness you have in later life, if you chose an unhealthy diet, your subequent health problems are your responsiblity.
information is there for those who look for it on making healthy responsible adult choices.
you can not imprison the everyone indefinitely, or emotionally blackmail people through fear and inflict long-term damage to health and well-being.
I want a healthy life, so i will exercise when and where i chose - without a face-mask becasue wearing one is not recommended by health-care professionals that i know.
if any of us review our symptoms at the start of this year, the 'cold' we had in January/February/March might have been Covid 19 - they are in the same 'family' of viruses.
I am not going to live my life in fear.
"nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more so we can fear less" Marie Curie
Stiggs:
Yes, I agree for the most part. I've never really worried too much about what could happen to me either.
This situation is different to other risks though in that if I were to go out and catch a dose of the covid it probably wouldn't impact me much, if at all. But if I passed it on to my elderly parents, or my diabetic friend, or my neighbor with asbestosis of the lungs, or the asthmatic guy I work with or any number of other vulnerable people it could be a really bad experience for them.
Or if enough people catch it that the hospitals are over run with people with the virus and someone has a heart attack or accident or whatever and needs hospital care in a system that can't deal with anymore patients that's not going to end well either.
So, I do understand the 'stay at home' plea even if it is just delaying the inevitable - sooner or later everyone is probably going to come in contact with it.
It's one of those 'rock and a hard place' situations really, a no win situation. We either expose our vulnerable friends, family, neighbours etc and accept that some will have a nasty experience and something like 1.3 percent of them will die or we continue with lockdowns and social distancing and destroy whatever is left of the economy which would bring a whole different set of problems to deal with, as well as still having the virus out there killing people.
I'm just glad I'm not running a country and having to decide what to do.
sorrel:
@ Stiggs,
all the 'lock-down' has done is delay/suspend the infection rate.
currently in my home country, the hospitals were never filled with Covid patients (normal proceedures, treatments and admissions were suspended, so there is another health problem pushed into the future)
Some Covid cases were contrated in hospitals (by both staff and other patients)
now admissions are droping, while people are still in lock-down.
It also has to so with how the cause of death was reported - each country has their own method. Appaerntly China 'under-reported' the number becsaue of the way a death certificate is written up, whereas other countries may have 'over-recorded' the impact of Covid.
for example, if there is someone who is ill with a number conditions, who catches Covid, some doctors may attibute Covid as the cause of death, whereas others would ascribe exisiting coditions as the cause of death.
there are no clear-cut criteria for writing up a cause of death-certificate - it can even vary from hospital to hospital.
letting people out and go about their business will allow people regain some of the good health lost by not having their regular fresh air and exericse - both essential for keeping in good health.
the nightmare scenario of over-run hospitals has NOT happened in some coutnries.
Until a true picture of the level of infection arises (this will not happen becasue many who have had minor to no symptoms will not have been tested), any stats. produced will be innaccurate.
i could mention a couple of countries where the predicted level of infection and mortaity was WAY off (on the over-estimation side of course), but this is being ignored.
we will never get any honesty from any governement - they have got what they wanted from us
icnif77:
In short, you have to die of sumtin' ... ... with mask or without ... 
Stiggs:
@Sorrel "we will never get any honesty from any governement - they have got what they wanted from us"
Just out of curiosity, what do you think they want from us?
US Senator Marsha Blackburne ... is reading e-Tites ...
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/coronavirus/senator-marsha-blackburn-%...
Excerpt ...
We're dealing with a government that—it's the Communist Party. They had three thousand cases before they said anything. They were locking people in their homes, allowing them to die. They let it grow from an outbreak to an epidemic to a pandemic.
President Xi knew! He knew for six days and said nothing.
Still they have not allowed the World Health Organization or the CDC [U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] into the Wuhan Institute of Virology. They won't let them in to see what it is that did happen.
We know what we're dealing with there.
If you were from Wuhan, you could not travel around China, and you could get on a plane in Wuhan and travel anywhere else that you could fly. But you just could not go around China. So they knew what they had. And they knew it was contagious.
They knew that they were stockpiling PPE [personal protective equipment] for 51 days while they were keeping their mouth shut, and then they ran the price up on people around the globe when they called and tried to buy it.
Look at what China did to France. France needed PPE and they said, "if you'll take Huawei as your 5G system, we’ll sell you PPE." Now how about that one!
I think that people have—China is going to realize that people look at them differently. Reviewing their participation in these global organizations is something else that is going to be necessary.
.. more ...
icnif77:
Trump-a in full frontal ... attack .. with letter to WHO ...
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/trump-threatens-permanently-pull-funding-cancel-us-membership-who-if-reforms-arent
"You've Got 30 Days": Trump Threatens To Permanently Pull US Money, Cancel WHO Membership If Reforms Aren't Made
What do you Chinese fancy more, OZ beef&barley or-r-r-r ... Germanic made cars ...
https://gellerreport.com/2020/05/china-who-cahoots.html/
German Intel Service Says WHO Director Tedros and Chinese President Xi Worked Together To Hide Outbreak for Weeks
A new report claims that in January, China asked the World Health Organization to cover up emerging details about the spread of the coronavirus.
The allegation was contained in the German publication Der Spiegel, according to The Daily Caller.
The Daily Caller said the German-language report said Chinese President Xi Jinping personally contacted WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus to cover up details about the outbreak in Wuhan, and cited information that Der Spiegel said was supplied by the German intelligence agency BND.
Xi asked the controversial Tedros not to announce that human-to-human spread of the virus was taking place, the report said, according to The Daily Caller.
Xi also asked Tedros to stall declaration of a pandemic, the Taiwan News reported.
The report said the German intelligence agency said that the delay in announcing the full extent of the spread of the virus led the world to waste four to six weeks it could have used to prepare for the onslaught.
more ...
icnif77:
https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/05/09/german-intelligence-china-told-who-to-downplay-virus-delay-information-and-deeming-it-a-pandemic/
German Intelligence: China Told WHO to Downplay Virus, Delay Information and Deeming It a Pandemic
According to German intelligence BND, China’s President Xi Jinping personally spoke with Dr. Tedros of the World Health Organization on Jan. 21 and asked him to delay calling it a pandemic and withhold information about human-to-human transmission.
This is pretty bombshell information.
more ...
Of course, I read at Zero in early January about WHO & declaring pandemic, but I was thinking about why WHO is waiting so long at pandemic declaration .. with reports Corona was out of China in different countries around the world, Italy, Spain and more,
Did I tell you, Zero is good ... he he
https://nationalinterest.org/feature/america-needs-pushback-plan-dealing...
America Needs a Pushback Plan for Dealing With a Calculating China
China likely did not originally intend to engage in a war. But the coronavirus got away from them. Rattled by fears of losing legitimacy at home and credibility abroad, Xi pivoted from defense to offense. China allowed people to travel from the motherland to the West while imposing a quarantine at home. It closed its borders to foreigners as the crisis eased. It refused to timely share scientific data, hoarded medical supplies, and is now waging information war absolving itself from fault and blaming the West. Xi saw an opening and gambled. Perhaps he miscalculated the harm in letting the virus loose on the world. But as John Adams said, facts are stubborn things.
One must understand how China views warfare. Western notions are, as Grotius stated, “a state of forcible contention; an armed contest between nations.” (Gro. de Jur. B. lib. 1, c. 1). China’s approach eschews armed conflict. Rooted in Sun Tzu, its Three Warfares concept and notion of unrestricted warfare embrace deception, diplomatic and economic pressure, and seek relative gain over an opponent. Its notion governs how we must judge its actions.
America must make clear that China’s war is against the international community, not just the United States. The coronavirus has caused deaths, infections, and derailed economies everywhere. Let’s frame this war as China versus the world. Bipartisan buy-in and an international coalition would strengthen America’s credibility in making this case. Additionally, America must discredit and de-legitimize China’s 2049 vision by taking its behavior to the UN Security Council for action and calling it out everywhere. China would veto a resolution. But UNSC offers a great venue for exposing China’s pernicious vision and tactics and knocking it off the moral high ground. China’s leadership understands that the result will undercut its credibility and legitimacy.
more ...
Taiwan has healthy economy ... and ... China threw a fit ... 'cause of Pompeo ...
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/pompeos-congratulations-tweet-tai...
Pompeo's Congratulations Tweet To Taiwan President Sparks Outrage With China
Taiwan's President Tsai Ing-wen was sworn in on Wednesday for a second presidential term amid worsening ties with China. US Secretary of State Michael Pompeo tweeted congratulations on Tuesday ahead of the ceremony, which led China to denounce Pompeo's message as "wrong and very dangerous," reported Bloomberg.
The Ministry of National Defense released a statement Wednesday that said the People's Liberation Army (PLA) would "take all necessary measures to firmly safeguard" China's sovereignty, while the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs said Pompeo's comments "seriously violated" the one-China principle.
"China urges the US side to immediately correct its mistakes," the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement. "The Chinese side will take necessary countermeasures to respond to the above-mentioned erroneous actions by the US side. And the US side should bear the consequences arising therefrom."
Washington has carefully refrained from recognizing Taipei's government in the past. What triggered China into a fit of rage this week is Pompeo's tweet that recognized Tsai as president and called Taiwan a "force for good in the world and a reliable partner."
Taiwan cannot accept becoming part of China under its ‘one country, two systems’ offer of autonomy, President Tsai Ing-wen said as she was sworn in for her second and final term.
