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Sign up with Google Sign up with FacebookQ: Can I tell students company ripped me off?
Recently finished my 1 year contract for teaching, but found part of my bonus was withheld for debatable reasons. I am not sure I could get the cash by going through a legal process, but I want to let the students know what happened as they generally like md and will not be happy to hear. I maintain in contact with many of them but keep conversations professional, only giving advice and the like. Is it likely that if I let the students know what happened, I could be legally punished, or is this completely valid and safe to do (esp. since I have no intention of working in the same field ie: helping spoiled brats run off to the west, again)?
9 years 31 weeks ago in Business & Jobs - China
It is highly unprofessional to involve a company's clients in labor dispute with your company. The children can't help you and they are an innocent party. The parents are usually clueless. They just drop their kids off to learn. Why on earth would you want to tell them? As Sino said, bow out gracefully. Let the company explain to the students. Wrestling with them in the bull$hit will only leave you stinky.
Hulk:
I agree. I'm purposely giving bad advice because he should know better.
Never, never, never get students involved in your personal battles with a company. One, you'll never win and 2, they'll (the company) will find a way of turning things against you.
Stand up for yourself and bow out gracefully.
I concur with Sino!
Don't post Qs as 'anon'. Register to the Board, so we'll know Qs you're asking, weren't answered already.
Type 'SAFEA' in the search above for Chinese Government (Foreign Expert Bureau) contact numbers and address in your city.
Dial FEB, and politely ask them for advice and help.
I hope, you aren't talking about part-time job, because it's illegal in China to work at other place than School/Company, which sponsored your Z visa/RPermit, and you're responsible to get shafted for pay at part-time gig.
''He makes himself a woman suit….... subjects name is Jimmy Gumm …. live caterpillars from Surinam ….
We wouldn't find him without you, Starling….. nobody's gonna forget this ….''
Tell them that you write reviews on all the ESL websites after you've finished a job... probably won't do much, but you never know.
If it's only about the bonus, don't get the students involved. If there's more to it, then re-post with a valid name (ie, not anonymous!)
Agree with Sinobear, never involve your students or coworkers in a battle against the management, backstabbing is common thing in China and if they ever side with you (very little chance) they are going to have big troubles maybe even bigger than yours.
Also in the case of coworkers if they are Chinese you are probably making 5 times or more their salary while working half the time they do, complaining will only make you look like a self-entitled moron.
If you are still in China, had/have a Z-visa/RP while you worked there and never breached the contract, then the SAFEA (aka. Foreign Affairs Bureau) will help you to get your money back (type it in the search box above), they have a branch in each major city and in every provinces, this is the legal authority that deals with foreign employees / Chinese employers disputes, unlike the local police it is very unlikely that your boss/ex-boss has relations (guanxi) with them.
Get the PARENTS involved. This is one reason why you should get guanxi in China. The parents will come down HARD on the school, especially if you've decided to leave them without a foreign teacher. They don't want their little emperors to be without a teacher now, would they?
Hulk:
Your FACE, my fist. Come here, son! I'm downloading mp3s right now, and you can't stop me no matter who you are. I'm insane.
Anyone got some sausage?
icnif77:
Sausage is bad for your liver and things. They might grind a dog in it too....
Hulk:
If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules, that would've gotten you labeled a radical 60 years ago, a liberal 30 years ago, and a bacon today.
Almost:
Good answer but I think you should warn other foreign teachers about the school with online posts at http://eslwatch.info and http://chinaforeignteachersunion.org Hulk is right though - the parents will cause some grief for sure.
It is highly unprofessional to involve a company's clients in labor dispute with your company. The children can't help you and they are an innocent party. The parents are usually clueless. They just drop their kids off to learn. Why on earth would you want to tell them? As Sino said, bow out gracefully. Let the company explain to the students. Wrestling with them in the bull$hit will only leave you stinky.
Hulk:
I agree. I'm purposely giving bad advice because he should know better.
Sounds like they had a legitimate reason to withhold part of your bonus. Your own words; 'debatable' , you can not go through the legal process. When a school owes you money a call to SAFEA will make them scurry like crazy to pay you. (I know from experience)
I post this answer to those who might really find themselves in this situation. I know this poster is probably a CFTU troll like the others.
sam239:
Well I finished the hours I signed for and more, but on two occasions I was suffering exhaustion and unable to come. The "international" hospital was useless, but these dates were over and above my contractual obligations and were in effect resceheduling my off time. So that is why I say "debatable", I did have two unscheduled absences but these were for hours above and beyond my contractual obligations. And yes this seems more like an encounter with a criminal organization than a professional experience hence why I am willing to go dirtier than I would back home.
Englteachted:
Then why allow them to schedule those classes? You are probably a newbie (under 2 years). Do not try to be nice. ever! Keep it business.
Englteachted:
Once you allow them to put you on the schedule, you are responsible. You will be lucky if SAFEA sides with you.
No I posted this, anonymously as a keen internet detective can find my identity with the information I have posted. Chinese friend suggested the student/parents thing which I agree would be highly unprofessional in a professional environment, but this seems more like dealing in a den of thieves rather than a professional environment. I guess I'll give the SAFEA thing a go as I do deserve that cash after a year's service. Oh well, all the more respect to people who manage success here.
Englteachted:
If it was really posted by you, my apologies. There have been too many odd posts in the last few days.
Hulk:
Do safea, bro. I love you, Sam. I'm sorry for being a douchenozzle to you...
icnif77:
Come back with results update, pls!
Nobody update on 'call to FEB', so sometimes I'm thinking nobody follows the advice.
SAFEA is for us here in China, established by Chinese Gov., and they helped me several times, and I always updated the Board with results.
Only me, nobody else came back to Board with update.
'Do they speak English in your city or you need Chinese translator'? 'Are they effective'? and such info would be good for anybody in similar troubles.
Engl's 'troll detector' needs updates, too…o2,O2
The parents will have already paid their money to the school; once the school gets the fees they treat the parents and students like total crap as well. Also, it is unprofessional to get them involved.
If everything is above board, you should go to the foreign affairs bureau, as the previous posters have suggested. If it's not legal, then cut your losses and find a better school.
Good luck
This is not the 1st time I heard that foreign teachers here got ripped off by school or training agents (but still, make sure it is a rip-off).
It is not good to hold your emotion back if you really feel angry about it. My suggestion is you let your students (how old are they?) know it in an informal way, if you treat your students as real friends. If you love them, they will believe in you, then what you told them will be remembered.
Another alternative is that, find the media contact from website or newspaper, or you can post it on WeChat...
Either way, please do not expect anything that will taken effect so quickly. You can learn how to can let the emotion out, and then let it play out.
icnif77:
Read some posts above. You'll find 'very quick and effective solution' way, not involving students or parents. For tease, one should ask mill's manager: 'Can you tell me SAFEA's address, please?'
October1st:
well,icnif77.
The question posted here was asking 'Can I tell students company ripped me off?'
I was answering his question from my stand of view. I did review your advice before dropping my answer but that is not my advice.
I believe the questioner who knows how to pick up useful advices :) Dno't worry.
For icnif: SAFEA was useless. The company in fact ripped off a major American educ. company as well (stealing their banner and the likes). I will do what I can to make sure their name is spread out far and wide and they are unable to suck others into their game.
It wouldn't be as much as a problem to me if they were only ripping off people in China, but the fact they are a study abroad company and practice theft against foreign enterprises/individuals is unacceptable, particularly given Pres. Xi's recent exhortation to foreign education orgs. to improve their quality. Mean-spirited and arrogant if you ask me.
hi2u:
So, how about telling us the school name as part of that "make sure their name is spread out far and wide"?
if you happen to know any parents then casually mention it to them. it won't do any good, but you never know, it may just damage their business a little. if you re lucky and ts a small town, then quite a lot. particularly if the parents love you
I was planning to go the foreign route, expose this to people elsewhere to and make an extra effort to make sure these companies are properly exposed when they advertise in professional outlets and try to take advantage/exploit the countries they are trying to immigrate to. They don't deserve quality reputable people working for them, and I think a good way to humiliate them in return is to make sure they don't get that. The decent and intelligent Chinese students will find other ways to fulfill their dreams, but some of the main agencies are essentially criminal operations IMO and need to be exposed as such.
"So, how about telling us the school name as part of that "make sure their name is spread out far and wide"?"
I believe there is an anti-defamation law in China. In any case I had a bunch of posts deleted from here earlier this year that were far less harmless than outright naming one of these companies...basically scam operations for getting the s******d c*******n of c******t o*******s out of the c******y. Can you guess the meaning of that?
BTW I would really like to hear from you again, Mike, my hero on echinacities, on how to get the last laugh.