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Q: Can we sort out this CFTU thing once and for all?
So now that the CFTU has infiltrated our forum can we deal with the questions surrounding them. Are they a real organisation? Can the English teachers on this forum contribute to this discussion? Should we pay attention to them? Could they help in a time of need? Or should admin escort them off the premises. I have no opinion either way, because I don't know, but I'd like to know, finally, what to do with them in my mind.
10 years 5 weeks ago in Teaching & Learning - China
As long as there are no names, no phone numbers, no supported data to support "their" claims and statistics...there is no CFTU.
Englteachted:
The posters you see posting are actually paid by the CCP.
DrMonkey:
Occam razor : the simplest explanation is the most likely, in absence of other evidences. You can explain the whole thing as a confidence trick, no need to suspect some CCP cunning plan.
Techtronix:
No, they do exist but I don't much care for there secrecy. I went to two of their meetings last year and although there were about 40 expats there only one girl gave me her name. Everyone else was wearing name stickers with numbers on them! Shit, I felt like I was attending a Free Mason's lodge meeting! The only thing missing was the secret handshake. I did get a lot of free stuff though.
I asked for a schedule of the meetings and activities and they said after I became a member they would email it to me. So I asked if I could sign up and they said they would first have to verify that I was really a teacher. I am obviously a white expat native English speaker, so why did I have to prove I am a teacher? And even though they don't charge money for a membership you have to do 90 hours of volunteer work for them before you can join. What's up with that?
Grumpy:
The only thing you called Englishteachted is your own paranoia. Stop spewing your bs and just answer the 8 very simple and direct questions that EZ asked you below that you keep avoiding like the plague. In other words, prove your allegations with specific facts or stop slandering people.
What is their really to sort out? Go to one of their meetings like I did in 2012 (usually in Wudaokou) and you will see that they do not hustle or promote any products or services (I was expecting some religious bs but there was none).
I examined their web sites for 3 years and I can not see that they charge money for anything and I subscribed to their mailing list to get some free stuff (China labor and visa laws, some job networking contacts, China drivers license book, free Chinese lessons, etc.). I went to their 2012 Thanksgiving dinner and everyone paif doe their own buffet dinner (100 rmb with 3 free drinks) I never got spammed from them (have you?) and they have the best blacklists and whitelists I have seen for China since the days of the CTA.
Don't like them? don't use them. I personally will never become a member of anything in China because I don't want to be monitored. I can understand why they are a bit secretive after two of their three founders were not able to get their visas renewed back in 2010. I suggest you visit and read their websites before you bash these guys. Unless they changed since 2012 they are all volunteer expats.
DrMonkey:
"Go to one of their meeting" The only trace of those meetings is you speaking of it. No pictures, no schedule, no independent reports = nothing.
"Their website exists since 3 years" And ? That proves it's genuine ? How they back something like the number of adherent, a whopping 20K people or something like that ? Where you become an adherent, there's no indication of how !
And then, there are claims of meeting a minister (posted a few hours ago) with zero references to back it up, like a news item, an official declaration... And such a thing is extremely unlikely, so a very strong proof is required for such a strong claim.
I am not a member of the CFTU but I met my partner at one of their singles activities and one of my colleagues has been doing volunteer work for them for over a year. Send me a pm and I will give you her email address. I use their website from time to time, but that is about it. Overall I think they provide some pretty useful information. Last year when I did not get paid my last pay check from a school I left, I could not afford to lose 8,000 yuan. No matter how much I complained and threatened, I never got paid. After 3 months of them stalling in hopes that my visa would expire, I asked my colleague who does volunteer work for the CFTU for help. And even though I am not a member they called the headmaster on my behalf. I don't know what they told him, but the next day they called me and told me to come in and sign a receipt. So I can never say anything bad about this group.
DrMonkey:
It's NOT up to the readers to sort out if the CTFU is a confidence trick or not, it's up to the CTFU to show it 's true. Trace of the meetings, the 20000 adherents, news item of things like the meeting with no less than a minister ? A union in China have to have the CCP blessing, where's the trace of it ?
They exist only on the internet, to collect information on teachers. You do understand unions are illegal in China. Do you really think the CCP will work with an organization that is looking to cost China more money?
Actually, at one of the meetings I attended they did openly admit that they are not an official labor union as we know it, but the woman leading the meeting that night said they chose that name so teachers would know they had other teachers to help them with problems. But until they ditch the secrecy crap, I am not going to another meeting.
. Are they a real organisation? Can the English teachers on this forum contribute to this discussion? Should we pay attention to them? Could they help in a time of need? Or should admin escort them off the premises. I have no opinion either way, because I don't know, but I'd like to know, finally, what to do with them in my mind.
Let me answer your questions.
They are an organization, but they exist to gather foreign teachers info and report them back to schools so they can be blacklisted.
They can't help you at all, but they will likely cause you more trouble. I sat beside the FAO of a school while her email was open and I saw an email from the CFTU in her inbox, subject "XXX teacher has posted a story about your school" They also reported back to my former school, and they blacklisted me. I had to take my pictures down from the web and I had to take down my postings.
Think about it!!! They have a register of all the schools and they know exactly who to contact!
Simply ignore them.
EZ4ME2B:
Hello Ted - I have a strange suspicion that you might not be a teacher after all but perhaps a recruiter agent on the CFTU blacklist? I am both a teacher an now-inactive CFTU member and I find your posts quite amusing. I just spent 30 minutes reading all of your posts on six different threads and you bash them without reason for two weeks claiming they are a "CCP government trap" and suddenly just today you recall an en email belonging to someone else at your school that you saw huh? BULLSHIT! If what you say is true provide the details and then answer all of the below questions here for all of us to see:
1) Who sent the mystery email?
2) How many CFTU meetings or events did you ever attend - where and when
3) What Volunteer No. sponsored your first meeting?
4) What is done at the close of every meeting?
5) What has the CFTU ever tried to sell you?
6) How has the CFTU ever caused you any harme or problem (be specific)
7) At what school to you yeach if you really are a teacher?
8) Exactly how is the CCP connected with the CFTU and what is your proof?
8) Why have you downvoted every user who ever said anything good about the CFTU?
After you answer all these questions, I will check out every word of your story because the CFTU is very good at documenting things Ted. And before I forget, on another thread you said there were two CFTU blacklists and one had your name and the other did not. Where are these lists and where did you see them and when? Please post the links to these lists here so we can see what you are talking about Ted. For the 14 months I was a CFTU member I only know of one black list at this link. http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.org/2012/12/china-foreign-teachers-union-posts-esl.html Where is your name Ted?
Again, after I read your posts I cannot help but feel you have some ax to grind with the CFTU and that would mean you are someone they exposed on the past as either a shady agent, scam recruiter, or corrupt principal/administrator.
I am no longer active with the CFTU due to a medical emergency in my family, but I did volunteer work for them and earned my membership over a year ago. How dare you bash fellow expats who donate their time to help fellow teachers avoid problems. Why don't you volunteer your time and "infiltrate" this "great CCP spy operation" and the you can tell us it is and then give us a full report - along with an apology. You are one paranoid mother f***ker or a recruiter. Which is it Ted?
Englteachted:
So you can try to blacklist me again, go fuck yourself. I posted about my former school providing shitty accommodations on this site and others.
, CFTU has 2 types of sites (they have many) A. sites that they attach their name to. B. sites they do not attach their name to . ESLwatch is a site that they do not attach their name to, but I should have known. After I posted on that site my current school had trouble applying for my new visa . They discovered that it had something to do with my former employer, they called them and I was told to take down my post in order for them to fix it. So I had to remove all my posts and pictures (those of you who were here , remember). I could not figure out why until I was at another school a few days later to let them know I will no longer work PT for them. While sitting in the headmaster's office I noticed an email from the CFTU that stated XXX teacher posted a complaint on ESLwatch, It was in English and short. That is how I knew my former school was informed directly by CFTU so then they put some sort of block (blacklist) so no one else could apply for my visa.
You want to get info on me so you could try and dig up dirt on me like you guys did to traveler.
I speak the truth, anyone who doesn't believe me is free to try for themselves. Post a positive review of your school on ESLwatch.info and then ask your FAO if they heard that you posted a good review of their school.
Englteachted:
"nd before I forget, on another thread you said there were two CFTU blacklists and one had your name and the other did not."
You are lying . I said there are 2 types of sites the CFTU uses to trap teachers. The CFTU then contacts the school you report on so the school can blacklist you (the teacher).
Grumpy:
No Engleteachted, you said there were two CFTU blacklists and your name was on only one of them. Where is that list - show it to us please so we can all see.
Grumpy:
You know Enlteachted, EZ4ME2B asked you 8 very simple questions and if you have nothing to hide and are an honest person you would just answer the questions. If you make accusations you should be able to prove them in my opinion. Just my opinion mind you.
As I just finished posting a comment above to Ted who purports to be an expat teacher, I was active with the CFTU for just over 14 months. If not for a medical emergency in my family I would still be doing volunteer work with the group of expats I met at a free "Cross-Cultural" training workshop they gave at Peking University. My job as a volunteer was answering email inquiries (about 150 a day) and helping to coordinate day trips and social activities.
The group has only two Chinese members that I am aware of and both are ABCs. Everyone else is an expat. The only thing they have in common with the Chinese government are annual meetings to resolve disputes and make suggestions. Yes, they do maintain a high level of secrecy and every member knows why. If you are not a member there is no reason for you to know. It is not my job or place to say more than I have to but it really ticks me off to see some clown agent masquerading as a foreign teacher bashing the CFTU in any thread that talks about expat teachers.
He makes wild accusations of the CFTU being a trap and never ever provides any proof. Those who read the comments of other teachers on the CFTU website (www.ChinaForeignTeachersUnion.org) would know in a New York second that the information and service provided by them is useful in preventing the teacher abuse that is mentioned in this article from 2012: http://open.salon.com/blog/china_business_central/2012/12/14/china_foreign_teachers_exploited_and_abused_by_scams
I read a rather interesting "debate" about the CFTU in an old ECC thread here between "Traveler" and "Shining Brow" that you all should read when you have time. Anyone can flap their lips and bash others when hiding behind anonymity but from what I can see now and what I saw for 14 months as a CFTU volunteer, not one single person said they were ever cheated or hurt by the CFTU other than the 58 scam agents/recruiters and 312 blacklisted schools on their website here: http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.org/2012/12/china-foreign-teachers-union-posts-esl.html
There is also a reason the Blogger web site format is used and if you are a member you know why. And if you are/were a member here is everything you would get for free because the CFTU does not sell or even endorse a single product or service (not even one advertisement on their web site): FREEBIES:
* Copy of China Labor & Visa Laws In English
* Teaching In China A-Z Guidebook
* China Interview Tips
* China Marriage Guide Book
* 4 Hour Cross-Cultural Training Seminar
* Monthly Newsletter
* Real-Time Scam Alerts
* Contract Samples & Suggestions
* Arbitration (When Requested)
* Agent Reply Form Letter
* Demand For Wages & Release Letter
* School Whitelist (Updated Annually)
* School & Agent Blacklist (Updated Quarterly)
* Job Placement Service (No Strings Attached)
* Chinese Lessons & Language Exchange Program
The CFTU also organizes 5-6 day trips and singles events every year as well as holiday parties. They are not free but everyone pays their own share of the costs. I went on the Great Wall and Qingdao trips with them and had a blast. Finally there is no religious or political agenda at the CFTU. Its just expats watching out for each other - period. If that is so hard for you to digest, then just pretend they do not exist and avoid them. As far as I know they have never solicited anyone for anything. Since I handled the email for quite a few months I know that every single email was a reply with no junk mail (spam) sent out to anyone. This is what I know from my own personal experience, and this is the article that originally got me interested in the CFTU: http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/articles/blogs-beijing/expat-life/scam-alert-foreign-teacher-fraud/
Believe what you want. I prefer reality.
Englteachted:
With one account you state the foreign minister is asking the CFTU's advice about setting teaching standards and here you are telling me that the CFTU practices secrecy? For "you know what" reasons. Talk about contradicting BS.
Englteachted:
Why does a secret organization document everything?
"CFTU is very good at documenting things Ted"
Your threat does not scare me. Your CCP tactics are well documented.
Grumpy:
I think Englteachted should be ignored until he can answer the 8 questions you asked him in the other post above. Since he has no answers for any of those questions, I think he may not be a teacher after all. I believe he is an expat but I think he may earn his living as a recruiter. All agents and recruiters hate the CFTU because they show people how to find their own jobs without agents.
I didn't know what answer to expect when I posted this question but what I got was AMAZING. I'm so happy I did, because wouldn't you know it, like moths to a flame they came out one by one and outed themselves as ... whatever you call them.
Step forward EZ, Grumpy, Techtronix and Cricket. You're either all the same person or are sitting next to each other in the same office having gone through the same training.
I was suspicious before but now I know. You made it so obvious, all of you had the exact same story. 'When i attended a meeting/event in 2012/3'. You guys are hilarious. Try do better on the next forum you hit up!
Thumbs up for everyone else to combat this guys chronic thumbs downing.
icnif77:
See here for the real battle:
http://answers.echinacities.com/question/phantom-down-voter-back
I actually really don't care whether they're real or not, or a CCP trick. I don't give a damn about the CFTU. I read the laws, and do what I can to stay within them, and I exercise my rights when possible.
Most of these people getting scammed are those who didn't bother to read anything.
mArtiAn:
Yo, Hulk, my fat American compadre, what the fuck is CFTU? It seems every few months, after my regularly needed sanity haitus, some new thing has evolved on this site. I've only just worked out that LOL means 'laughing out loud'. Help a brother out man.
mArtiAn:
Nope, don't bother, i'm good, I worked it out, it means Chong Facky Tong Uk, right? A rare dialect in Laos, the direct translation simply meaning 'Octavian Rights Commission of San Francisco Pervert Consortium'.
I'm right, aren't I? I always get there in the end.
icnif77:
@Mars: Isn't similar to STFU? CFTU, I always see as STFU, if am not really careful
We can sort CFTU thingy out, only if we all have a look at this tread:
http://answers.echinacities.com/question/why-are-comments-removed-after-...
Sam, Scan and myself discussing, 'if there's any fish left in the pool'!
Here is your proof. Read carefully look at the first comment. Who is the first comment from? How did they know to respond so quickly?
http://eslwatch.info/china-2/bad-school-review-in-china/5431-gdou-guangd...
Englteachted:
http://eslwatch.info/china-2/bad-school-review-in-china/5176-zenith-kindergarten-guangzhou.html
Notice how the first comment attacks the complaining teacher.
Englteachted:
How are the FAOs finding out about these posts? Because the CFTU reports back to the schools.
http://eslwatch.info/china-2/bad-recruiters-review-in-china/11479-expertise-education-beijing.html
Well, I would summarize it as I see it
* CFTU is for China's Foreigner Teacher Union, to protect foreign teachers of the usual scams, from labor practices with Chinese characteristics, and even try to raise average income
* There visible trace of existence is a page on a blog, and the following users Grumpy/EZ4M2B/Cricket/Techtronix/CFTU.Admin They all appeared at roughly the same time. They mention the classical issues of teaching in China, mention the CFTU. This, and pushing a line "Look, USA is as bad in China in the end"
* The CFTU have 20000 adherents, but somehow only Grumpy/EZ4M2B/Cricket/Techtronix/CFTU.Admin have been to the elusive meetings, organized by an anonymous lady. No precise dates, no locations, no schedule.
* 20000 people, exists since 2012, but somehow nobody heard of them, outside of those 5 users who popped up: my background in statistics and graph theory tells me it's *extremely* fishy
* They are underground and obviously not legit (20000 teachers in an union, yet not backed by the CCP ?!) yet CFTU.Admin claims to meet a minister, and get some measures adopted ! I google around in english, I baidu around in chinese, can't find anything about this. And when asking about this, all I got as answer is silence.
* The trace of existence are only anecdotal evidence from Grumpy/EZ4M2B/Cricket/Techtronix/CFTU.Admin of a friend, girlfriend and what not.
,br> * No simple, straitforward mean of contact, no clearly defined head
My prognostic : confidence trick
Sorry fellas, I don't see any sinister plot that Englishteachted keeps mentioning. And despite all his lip service he still cannot answer any of the 8 very simple question EZ asks him in the above posts. When he can answer those questions with some reasonable explanation, I will believe that Englishteachted is a teacher and not a recruiter. The theory about the con game requires money and victims to be involved. In this case there are neither. My opinions are based on my own experiences and not the ranting of some paranoid loon. Where are "Traveler" and "Shining Brow" who hashed this all out last year if I recall.
Englteachted:
A con game does not require money. Giving schools an opportunity or a stage to attack teachers and seek revenge on teachers you report their schools does not help teachers.
DrMonkey:
Why CFTU.admin does not answer questions ?
- 29642 adherent (checked the website 1 mn ago) yet nobody heard of them ?
- Meeting a minister yet no record of it ? If such things exist, why not showing them ?
- When googling around (behind the Great Firewall), the only references are CFTU websites, and posts on expat forums advertising the CFTU. What external, independent reference I missed ?
- Who's the head of the CFTU, where is the simple, straightforward why to contact them ? Where is it registered, by who ?
Those questions have been asked and not answered.
DrMonkey:
Ho, a nice one I found. CFTU website : 29,642 members !
But on ESLwatch, on a post China Teacher Union Offers Free Job Placement Service For 2014, dated 11 Feb. 2014, I read The bad news is that our membership only grew 7% in 2013. We now have 6,207 CFTU members China-wide.
Link http://eslwatch.info/china-2/news-98/603-china-newsflash/11486-china-foreign-teachers-union-offers-free-job-placement-service-for-2014.html
So, 6,207 or 29,642 members ?
What kind of B.S. is this anyway? Arguably, I agree labor unions would really help to put pressure on the Chinese government to develop and enforce its labor laws, while simultaneously helping China become a developed nation. But, let's face it, that's not going to happen. So, really whatever this CFTU crap is, sounds like a mind masturbation to me. In other words, a pointless activity that strokes somebody's ego. How about offering financial assistance or references for those of us who really are suing our employers!
Wow! This is back again!!!
I'll go through post by post, rather than comments to each...
Firstly, though, I have no vested interested in the CTFU, although I do firmly, 100% support the idea! AFAIK, I've never met any 'members', nor 'adherents' (though, obviously, I've had PMs). I do go to SH regularly now, so perhaps that might change (if every any of them bother to tell me when and where they're meeting!)
None of what I write here validates the existence of the CFTU, nor my 'involvement' with it! It's just logical argument.. which in the absence of anything else, might actually count for something!
(I also note, that just as there appear to be a number of users here who are the same person, there also appears to be another user against the CTFU who has a very similar writing and argument style...). The posts in support I will mostly not touch upon - how does one truly argue against personal experiences, other than saying they're either lying or not???
First post - Sino - not entirely accurate. TIC, and there are good reasons not to have such information publicly available. Have you tried to contact them for clarification or whatever? (even using assumed names, etc??)
TED - yeah, the CCP pays those posters... makes lots of sense... not! That's just a ridiculous suggestion! Especially without a single hint of 'evidence'!
Dr Monkey - if it's a con-trick - to what end? Again, to use Occham's Razor - which is more likely - a group of FT's who get together to try to help other FTs... or a con-trick (where no money is involved)?
2nd post - Dr Monkey - while I'd love to see the evidence of a meeting with a minister (hopefully Chinese government, and not religious 
), I do also understand why that's not going public, either. I'm not going to comment on the veracity of the claim, though. Maybe, maybe not... either way, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything to come of it. Pictures... possibly incriminating if in public (though, if they're reading this, there are ways around that, and thus should be done... but then, ppl on here will still say it's made up! I mean, it'd just be photos of a group of people - no??) Schedule? Hell no! Esp not public!!! If you want to go, contact them, get an individual email invite! "Independent report"?? Ummm - TBH, I'm confused by this! "Adherent" could be a hit, could be an email enquiry.... I can see possible ways to get certain numbers, other than just out of one's head! (which can still gel with 'member's number').
3rd post - yes, I'd like to see some further 'evidence' as well! So, yes, they do have the burden of proof. But, Cricket gave some 'evidence'! Can't be blamed for that (as much as some obviously want to!) However, some of what Dr Monkey is asking for would be.. in appropriate! If not downright foolish! Meeting the minister? Why couldn't that be behind closed doors, and done very quietly?? Makes perfect sense to me... after all, most meetings are like that!
4th post - TED - evidence?? This was hashed out a year ago. Such a claim also has a burden of proof - not just a single allegation! As was suggested then, and stated now, the word 'union' is an easy identifier - not necessarily a real-just-like-back-home 'union'. It is, in essence, what the word actually means - people getting together. (ie, not a legal entity).
6th post - TED... again, proof? Evidence? Your claims are just as valid (and invalid) as those made by posters claiming CTFU is good and real and wholesome!
EZ's post... some of the 8 are unrealistic! Such as, who sent the email...?? WTF? How is Ted supposed to get that?? Qs 1-6 are fair. Q7 isn't (too much personal, traceable information there!), Q8 (both ) are fair, although the last question is rather obvious to answer!
Ted - ESLwatch seems no different than any other ESL forum - it has long lists of schools to stay away from. Seems CTFU (if your claim is true) contacts those schools, perhaps to say "Would you care to comment on this?" or "Here's what's going on - if you want to keep teachers, and not be blacklisted, perhaps you should do something about it". Wise? Dunno! To presume they're a conspiracy is a bit OTT. Being asked to remove a forum post isn't unusual.. go read Dave's!
7th (I hope!) EZ makes personal experience claims... they're either lies, or they're true (individually). What does one say to that??
Ted - firstly, standard red herring argument - I don't see the contradiction you see. Secondly, the CIA documents everything, and remains a relatively secret organisation...
8th & 9th post... O-Watson... possibly, possibly not! If one actually reads what's been written, I don't see how you jump so such conclusions unless you had a pre-conceived idea before you posted! You've chosen to accept the 'arguments' of EnglteachTed and Dr Monkey, over that of Grumpy, Techtronix, EZ, and Cricket - and yet, the first 2 against don't really say anything other than pose questions and say it's all rubbish. So, you are calling the other 4 liars... because...????
I don't know if those 4 are the same person or not - but I do think it's a bit insulting to presume they are, just because they all have similar stories about similar events. I can make the same claim about yourself... based on your writing style and turns of phrase, you could by XYZ person as well!
I'm thoroughly confused as to the relevance of the chronic thumbs-downer... we've had them on here for years! They come and go.... maybe they just don't like Phil?? (probably cos he's a QLD, and let's face it, everyone is jealous of that! 
)
10th post - HULK!!! Hey, how's it going?? 
Are you still here.... ? PM me! Hey Martian and Incif!!
11th post - Actually, that's a bit amusing! thanks
12th post - "proof"... that word gets bandied around so much, it's quite obvious that people really don't know what it means! I see an article written about a school. I see the first comment is a refutation of the points made... and then back and forth and back and forth... I don't see a scrap of 'proof'! For that matter, it's the same crap I see on other forums (either, other ppl all agree, and anyone who disagrees is a lickspittle, or they all disagree, and the OP is a squirrel.... or whatever....) either way, it's just posts! Why did they respond so quickly? Ah, cos they just happen to be on that forum at the time?? I dunno! Why have I responded so late to this, yet almost automatically to posts on another forum???
12th post - DrMonkey...possibly. as for when members on this board show up, I could make similar connections... such as yours and Ted's both have a start date of 1st Jan, 1970... odd! As for who posts on here about it, perhaps a) 20000 'adherents' is, as I suggested above, only those who emailed?? Who chooses to write on their behalf...???
I've to to rush away now... but if I need to go further with this in a few days, I can.....!
DrMonkey:
Using the "burden of proof" card for every single claims about the CFTU, that's lazy ^^ I see a pattern : every claim cost nothing to make and the lack of proof can conveniently be by-passed : "it was behind closed door", "they have to be underground", and so on.
Yup, helping foreign teacher here, why not. Why not something open and participative then ? Like, a wiki, a forum or whatnot ? Instead of a completely opaque organization that nobody ever seen ? How it can a scam ? Well, you can ask a fee to be part of the union, for instance. You can blackmail people in irregular situation, or blackmail schools. A lot of possibilities if you manage to reach a critical mass of participants. And those 5 (or is it 1, 2...) users were trying very hard to get participation, or at least publicity. If the whole thing is a genuine attempt at helping, why the opacity and the outrageous publicity ? The circular character of the few traces of existence of the CFTU makes me very suspicious.
brother1818:
I just think what people are saying is that on other posts these '4 users' would sporadically mention the CFTU and that there were suspicions before, but now that there was a thread purely based on it, they all come out one by one in support of it with almost identical stories. TED even predicted it, he said that they would post with their other profile in 3...2...1... and then they did. Because if you're on this forum daily then you begin to understand who is just a dude and who has another agenda. Any one of us 'regular' people have no reason to promote any organization and we never do. You don't see us saying shit about this company or that company.
I just think that regular time on this site gives you a sense to easily tell when someone is up to shit and when they're just looking for answers.
coineineagh:
well, the end result is that a bunch of posters got banned by admin. i was quite shocked at it myself, but it seems to have been a rather insidious story that's been a long time in the running. Unions are illegal in China, and it's in the CFTU name after all. Any legit organization would adjust their name according to national laws. And the benefits of such a confidence trick are obvious: with any problem situation involving a teacher, the teacher spills the beans to the CFTU, CFTU informs the Chinese school about the disharmony, helping them to keep the teachers down, and screw them over even more for blabbing. EnglTeachTed has been annoyingly vocal in his opposition of the organization, but in the end he was right. He has my personal gratitude for his vigilantism, if nothing else.
Shining_brow:
Coineineigh - how did you come to the conclusion that CFTU is bad, and Ted is right?? (legitimate question..!!). Yes, I do think the sudden bannings of those members are... odd! I shall see if there is a legitimate reason for those bans that has occurred within the last few days I was away.
Brother - as you can see, I've been on this forum for a few years (with a couple of hiatuses). Yeah, I know what you mean, but I'd also suggest that those people (they are people, remember!) aren't as insidious as some suggest! And, there are others who have their own agendas on here (everyone has an agenda!)
Dr Monkey - yes, I'd agree the 'traces' are fairly circular. I have noticed this. (something Traveler did with his CDM site - it just went around and around...). In a way, I'm not surprised by it, though. Hard to get 'publicity' when such publicity can get you booted! (as it seems to be here, and by the govt).
TIC - not easy to have something 'open' when your basic raison d'etre is to piss people off! (blacklists, higher pays, putting the screws into people with more guanxi than us FTs). I do agree with you, though - it would be nice to have something that open.
As I've indicated, I have an interest in this thing, and I'll try to get along to a meeting, maybe be a member, and report back to you guys! (under this username, so you'll know I'm not putting up a multitude to advertise)
This is a fricking soap opera, but it was the thread that got me interested to sign on (along with the Malaysian Air tragedy). No I am no volunteer nor a member of the CFTU but I gave been hearing about this organization since 2010. I have been invited to attend meeting but never went. Basically I don't think any group of expats can do much to fight the corrupt teaching system and "guan xi" of China.
But in all fairness I can read and write English since age five and I read the two web sites of the CFTU and in all fairness I do not see anywhere where they claim to have "29,642 members" I see a banner on the home page that says there are basically "29,642" foreign teachers in China. So it is a big leap to say they claim to have every FT in China as a member.
Lastly, I was good friends with teacher L.J. who was one of the directosr of the old "China Teachers Alliance" which was pressured into dissolving by the Chinese government in 2010 and when I asked what happened to all the old members, including a handful that were quite vocal, LJ told me in 2011 that "most of them merged up with the CFTU and one of them is on their board." Now that was back in 2011 and since then I have not met nor spoke with any members of either group because I spent 18 months teaching in Shenyang and just got back to Beijing. I do know that one of the most vocal CTA guys was picked up and deported for exposing a corrupt principal who was related to the former Minister of Education maybe in January or February of 2012. That's all I know.
DrMonkey:
I learned English when I was 11, was awful at it for a long time, and started to really use it only when I was 24. About the banner on the website:
All foreign teachers employed in China are encouraged to apply for CFTU membership and enjoy the collective strength and support of your 29,642 expat colleagues now teaching in China.
So if you join, you can enjoy the support of your 29,642 colleagues (note the very precise count.). If they can support you, they joined ? If they did not joined and did not hear about the STFU, how they can support you ? The wording is confusing as hell to me, but maybe I'm over-thinking it.
DrMonkey:
"The googles, they do nothing !" I try to find China Teacher Alliance on google, can't find anything :(
Tarzan:
In my humble opinion there is way too much prejudice on this forum against the CFTU, which apparently is not even allowed to defend themselves (banned and apparently no explanation was given). So this begs the question "WHY?" After doing some digging, I found the answer...
Most of the people who bash and trash the CFTU are recruiters agents, and judging from these links some of them like Traveler lurk on this forum pretending to be a teacher colleague. Quite clever.
http://eslwatch.info/china-2/scams-or-schemes-in-china/12147-beware-of-agents-recruiters-masquerading-as-esl-tefl-teachers-at-expat-esl-tefl-forums.html
http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2014/04/12/too-many-agents-recruiters-now-posting-teachers-expat-forums
http://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic/t-3125
Also if you Google "Traveler, scam, China Daily Mail, China ESL" you will see WHY Traveler has been trying to smear the CFTU here at ECC. He is a recruiter for China ESL which an unethical agency blacklisted by the CFTU since 2010.
Traveler admitted to being a moderator for EchinaCities.com at this link here which is certainly "interesting" to say the least.
http://chinadailymail.com/2013/12/18/echinacities-expat-website-now-a-propaganda-machine/
As for who the REAL users are on this web site that attack the CFTU, this blog entry by Craig aka "Traveler" is even more intriguing.
http://chinadailymail.com/2014/06/04/ccp-vilifies-echinacities-owner-george-xu-for-being-gay-on-his-own-website/
