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Posts: 3269

Emperor

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Q: CFTU = government scam?

this isn't going to be an exposition of expatlife26's magnitude, but it may be meaningful. the more i think about it, the more it seems that all those websites must be closely tied to the Chinese government. we know they employ plenty of wumaos that influence people in ZhongWen, so it stands to reason they might try out the expat community, which ECC is a significant part of.

i know it seems preposterous at first, because we're not accustomed to governments being involved in such cheap and deliberate deceptions, but remember: TIC. no entrapment laws here, i think. creating online deceptive alteregos seems quite popular in China; it could be considered a national pastime. civil servants here probably see it as a perfectly acceptable method to hunt for illegals. the best way to root them out is to get them to confess, or be reported online.

the frequent return and the constant pattern suggest the culprit needs to meet a quota.

the lack of creativity in the disguises show that there is no time to wait out vigilance. inspirational ideas don't come fast enough to meet the quota. they MUST keep posting links, so they best they can come up with on short notice is "i'm XXXLARGE, where can i find condoms to fit me."

all the websites that are linked to talk about dangers from liars, cheaters, scammers, informants and other things. they appear helpful at first glance, but i believe this is a common scam, to masquerade as a knight in shining armour.
this preoccupation with deception and exploitation reveals what's on the mind of the aouthor of all those websites. that's why i believe it's an ABC doing his "patriotic" duty, not some average western guy employed as a wumao. that would.explain the partial understanding of American language and culture, but significant lapses in knowledge from living within an isolated Chinese community with rigid world views.

someone also mentioned admincat's slowness to respond to these scams, and i now believe this is very telling. if admin knows on some level that this is the work of a government department, interfering with their work too readily, wil have the authorities knocking on his cat flap soon enough.

also ask yourself: why always about China? perhaps some of those scam sites appear more generalised, but i wouldn't be surprised if their only up-to-date content is China-related.

the focus on appearances and lack of substances indicates to me that this is a Chinese operation executed by Chinese wumaos (ABCs). when asked to verify the validity of the CFTU and other scams, the best they could do was present a few usernames claiming to be CFTU members. i believe presenting an actual flesh-and-blood individual to give a real face to it all, would be beyond the scope of what this wumao department is tasked to do. and as we all know, Chinese employees do exactly what they are told to do. luckily for us, the scams are easy to recognize and expose due to their hamfisted, soulless execution.

9 years 5 weeks ago in  Business & Jobs - China

 
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Emperor

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That's a theory, that can mesh with what we know, but it not proved, just suspicions. You can be from country X, or USA, and do a bad imitation of a US citizen, clumsiness is universal. I have a hard time to believe that our tiny audience is worth 1 Mao of effort to disrupt or censor. Add the website to the Great Firewall, bam, job done once and for all. Why bother with shenanigans like Almost and the subsequent sock puppets ? I think the "scammer wannabe" or "angry man who want to see the place burn" hypothesis are more likely.

 

Let's not go all "red guard" about this. It's easy for anybody to be anybody on internet. We denounce the bullshit every time it lands here, and that's enough Smile

coineineagh:

this is my personal hunch, is all. adding ECC to the firewall wouldn't gain anybody any information. i believe this scam project is the government's attempt to elicit the sensitive info it wants from people.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

What information, to do what with it ? Being expulsed for ranting on a minor expat website, in a language most Chinese can't read, especially not-scholar-English-at-all ? From people who will eventually leave the country, in all likelihood ? Come on... We are ants on the back of a buffalo.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

DrM: don't forget the topics of these CFTU-type scam-spams are always about teaching, legalities, employers, snitching and so on. clearly, they want info on teachers & schools that break the rules. whether it's to impose fines, extort bribes or simply hold over people as leverage, this scammer is fishing for whatever sensitive info a gullible teacher might tell a union, when needing advice or help.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

Or... ESL teacher tends to be easy targets for employment with Chinese characteristic. Due to the English teaching market (no regulations), shit tend to happen more often than for say, specialized engineers and academics. You want to scam desperate people, they are more willing to believe anything... Our scammer got itself some ESL experience in China, he saw the law enforcement with Chinese characteristics, and he saw an opportunity. Nothing to loose, just need patience and persistence. Throw some stories to create or amplify a feeling of insecurity. Repeat the words "scam", "snitch" to ramp-up paranoia. Amongst the 1000s of ESL teachers, some have to be insecure, in a difficult situation, and desperate for a white knight. It  sounds like a far more likely hypothesis to me, because it involves a smaller scale: less people, lower stake at play. I occam razor. The scam is not subtle, but who said all scammers are good at their game ? Some people felt for the Nigerians email scams, it's all about persistence ^^

9 years 5 weeks ago
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9 years 5 weeks ago
 
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Comments (36)
Posts: 548

Shifu

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I really don't understand this obsession everyone has about this CFTU organization or whatever it is. If you are legal here and doing your own thing, no harm. Right. I tried to follow the long and boring expose that was written on another website trying to describe something about CFTU. But, it is written for people who are in the details of this stuff. And, this posting really did not explain much to me either. Put it to me in laymen's terms. What is the CFTU? Why is everyone always commenting on it? And, are they even relevent to most foreigners in China? From everything I have read, they just seem to be an annoyance on these type of sites. But, so are many other trolls whol like to stir up trouble. Not much difference from what I can tell.

coineineagh:

because solidarity. many hardworking english speakers from different countries have no other option than to work illegal. and even for those of us with the right passport, it's not difficult to stumble into illegal situations after being tricked by greedy employers or unscrupulous recruiters. here's a few references to the dystopic Chinese situation i'm getting at: (1) the song:"if you tolerate this, your children will be next" (2) the ancient Roman strategy of Divide & Conquer (3) first they came for the Communists, and I didn't care. Then they cam for the Jews, and I said nothing… (4) nicholas rockefeller III? once told his friend aaron spelling (movie director) of his nefarious world schemes. aaron asked "you're hurting so many people. why do you do this?" rockefeller replied (practically quoting confucius here): "why do you care? just take care of yourself and take care of your family."

9 years 5 weeks ago
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dongbeiren:

I asked a similar question months ago and was accused of being a scammer... I dunno what it is exactly but you can check old threads on the topic. It's clearly some kind of scam and has nothing to do with me but the spam is annoying.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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nashboroguy:

Clearly I struck a cord with the idiot squad on this forum. Thumbs down for a legitimate question.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

i saw your question more as an opening to discuss the value of solidarity. it wasn't meant to berate you personally. and i didn't vote you up or down. i'll upvote you to prevent our comments from getting hidden.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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nashboroguy:

Coin: I was not referring to you. I have an idea who they are. The kindergarten club has been badgering me since I joined this forum. They cry because I keep bring nukes to the fight when they can only bring toothpicks. Their arguments are childish and just plain rude. They can hide behind their fake profiles and feel like bullies. I don't care for them. And, they do not care for me. But, Karma is a bitch and it will rain down on them one day.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

Bully? Has anyone threatened you? Has anyone made you feel you might get hurt? Lokie, OldMajor , Snowball those accounts all claimed to be bullied as well. 

I can only speak for myself. When someone states that all 3000 students were success stories and then in the same thread says 10-20% were success stories that tells me you are full of shit. And you just whatever nonsense comes to mind at that time. 

Your BS posts that have been asked in different ways by another BS poster using different accounts makes it clear to me (at least) who you really are.

You criticized someone else's grammar when you make serious glaring mistakes in everyone of your posts 'I keep bring nukes'.  If you are going to be a dick and go around correcting other peoples' posts start with your own. Either way you are a loser.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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nashboroguy:

Hey Coin...my point exactly right here. Need I say more?

9 years 5 weeks ago
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Java.Joe:

Here's the deal... There are three shady ESL job recruiters who are regulars here at ECC and they were outed by the CFTU in 2011 for telling newbies to come work in China illegally without a Z visa.  Since then they have been trashing the group every chance they get.  These links below tell the story but the CFTU was banned at ECC for trying to tell their side of things and their comments were even deleted. This is the magic of moderator censorship at work. If you be your own judge you will smell the proverbial coffee here... http://eslwatch.info/china-2/scams-or-schemes-in-china/12147-beware-of-agents-recruiters-masquerading-as-esl-tefl-teachers-at-expat-esl-tefl-forums.html

 


http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/activities/cftu-sponsors-cross-cultural-training-seminar-for-new-china-foreign-expat-teachers/

http://www.thebeijinger.com/events/2014/may/cftu-cross-cultural-training-seminar-new-expat-foreign-teachers-free

 

http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.org/2012/12/china-foreign-teachers-union-posts-esl.html

 

http://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6828

 

http://eslwatch.info/china-2/news-98/603-china-newsflash/12418-do-you-know-your-employee-rights-as-a-china-foreign-esl,-tefl,-or-ap-teacher.html

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/cftu-dyi-guide-how-to-check-out-a-china-foreign-teacher-job-1

http://www.expat-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=437213

 

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/china-employment-contracts-for-expats-is-a-sneaky-shell-game-scam-watch-out-foreign-teachers

 

http://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6322

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/forum/topics/15-free-anti-scam-weapons-for-expat-china-foreign-teachers-from

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/your-help-needed-to-update-the-2015-cftu-china-esl-tefl-school

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/activities/china-foreign-teachers-union-freebie-fun-day/

 

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/cftu-webinar-china-contracts-and-labor-law-for-foreign-teachers-expat-employees/

 

http://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic/t-3178

 

http://eslwatch.info/forum/china/93-what-is-the-best-free-way-to-find-decent-and-safe-jobs-in-china-as-a-foreign-teacher.html

http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2014/02/07/free-legal-guide-english-china-expat-foreign-teachers

 

http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.com/2015/01/free-cftu-guidebook-china-labor.html   

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/cftu-advises-how-to-break-your-contract-resign-from-a-bad-or

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/blog/scam-alert-foreign-teacher-fraud/

 

http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?638583-China-Internship-Scams-Is-Paying-Money-for-Internship-a-Scam&p=1876869#post1876869

 

I personally think that two users here at ECC have a personal grudge against the CFTU since they are the two that constantly want to trash and bash it, yet never have any proof of their allegations. Maybe they these two people are shady China job agents that were outed and blacklisted by the CFTU - I cannot be sure. But I do find this article here to be interesting http://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic/did-you-notice-the-fake-teachers-posting-on-esl-tefl-forums/

 

Secondly, I do not see anywhere on the CFTU website that anything is being sold and nobody is asking for money - so how can there be a scam with no money involved, and what exactly is "the passive income stream" the OP alleges???  What proof do you have or is this just your guess? The membership is free and from what I know, always has been free.

 

Since we are not allowed to mention names on line here I will only say that I know two people involved in the CFTU and one is a former director "J" who worked for EF for three years and is now doing private tutoring. He invited me and my partner to the CFTU Christmas party in 2014. We both had a good time at Frank's place in Lido and there were about 120 people there.- Mostly foreigners but a dew Chinese girlfriends.  The only downside to the party was some annoying girl who kept trying to corner us and tried to talk about how she "found Jesus", but that was not a CFTU thing - just her own personal passion.

 

The group has five directors and I met three of them (Tina from the UK, Gregg from America, and Denise from Australia. The 2 I didn't meet were back in America for the holidays) 

 

I also found all these links online recently and it all looks legit to me.

 

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/activities/cftu-sponsors-cross-cultural-training-seminar-for-new-china-foreign-expat-teachers/

http://www.thebeijinger.com/events/2014/may/cftu-cross-cultural-training-seminar-new-expat-foreign-teachers-free

 

http://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic/china-school-agent-blacklists/

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/cftu-advises-how-to-break-your-contract-resign-from-a-bad-or

 

http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.org/2012/12/china-foreign-teachers-union-posts-esl.html

 

http://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6828

 

http://eslwatch.info/china-2/news-98/603-china-newsflash/12418-do-you-know-your-employee-rights-as-a-china-foreign-esl,-tefl,-or-ap-teacher.html

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/cftu-dyi-guide-how-to-check-out-a-china-foreign-teacher-job-1

http://www.expat-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=437213

 

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/china-employment-contracts-for-expats-is-a-sneaky-shell-game-scam-watch-out-foreign-teachers

 

http://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6322

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/forum/topics/15-free-anti-scam-weapons-for-expat-china-foreign-teachers-from

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/your-help-needed-to-update-the-2015-cftu-china-esl-tefl-school

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/activities/china-foreign-teachers-union-freebie-fun-day/

 

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/cftu-webinar-china-contracts-and-labor-law-for-foreign-teachers-expat-employees/

 

http://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic/t-3178

 

http://eslwatch.info/forum/china/93-what-is-the-best-free-way-to-find-decent-and-safe-jobs-in-china-as-a-foreign-teacher.html

http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2014/02/07/free-legal-guide-english-china-expat-foreign-teachers

 

http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.com/2015/01/free-cftu-guidebook-china-labor.html   

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/cftu-advises-how-to-break-your-contract-resign-from-a-bad-or

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/blog/scam-alert-foreign-teacher-fraud/

 

I am also confused as to how the CFTU group could be part of any government when all the members are expats?  What would the government connection be and for what reason?  Like I said before, I think there are just a couple of people here at ECC with an ax to grind. I personally got a lot of free and useful information from the CFTU and although I will never join up with any organization in China because of what happened to the old China Teachers Alliance (the leaders all had their visa applications rejected after they criticized the teaching standards in China), I give the CFTU my moral support, even though all the unlicensed recruiters and job agents probably hate them - and understandably so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also notice on their website that they do not sell nor advertise ANYTHING. Even their memberships are FREE. So again, those that smear them can only be people who were blacklisted by the group, and when I look at the CFTU blacklist I see over 70 foreigner names, and 320 Chinese names. Those are surely now all enemies of the organization.

8 years 7 weeks ago
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9 years 5 weeks ago
 
Posts: 928

Shifu

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He's just an individual trying to create a passive income stream. He's your classic, disgusting, lazy slob. This scam he's created, in his mind, is the ultimate way to outsource labor and turn it into free money. If all works out well, he won't have to do much of anything and he'll earn a "decent" amount of cash every month. Whereas most people work 5 days 4 weeks a month, he would just have to sit around and surf the internet every now and then and catch a few insecure and unsuspecting victims with his lies. The research done by Riri showed most of those sites were created on the same days or within months of each other. So sure, at first you put in a lot of work by creating and registering your network of websites and trying to "convert" different forum communities to be believers. But if you get lucky with one or two forums, then you effectively establish a foothold. The more dormant the forum the better; there won't be any opposition there so whatever you posted will look "credible" in that it has no detractors. Finally all that would be needed once a foothold is made is merely "updating" and maintaining the scam, with the same old BS stories and fake identities and lack of evidence. The money would roll in slow but steady. Who knows, he may already make a few bucks off people clicking his fake links. But the fact he shows up here consistently with the same drivel, despite being discovered so many times leads me to think that those other places aren't really turning out any profits. eChinacities is sorta "THE China expat community" so managing to get his crap posted in an uncontested manner here would be making it big in terms of how his operation is concerned.

The admin have taken care of the guy before, it is just that they usually wait way too long to do it. I wish they'd just ban him on sight though. That's what most other admin on forums would do. But considering he's been booted before, I don't think it's quite the same as what you described. Your observations about the creep were pretty right though.
Anyway, I think he could be:
1)Making money off of advertisements on his website
2) Possibly selling some kind of "kit" or package or "legal advice" for a semi cheap price to people trying to come to China, or
(3) outing people he discovers for some kind of reward? (But that seems the most fishy and unrealistic)

coineineagh:

it seems like a workable scam, but i think ESL teachers in China are a rather narrow (and arguably educated) target group to focus on. perhaps he has some real life knowledge that justifies choosing this group to prey upon, but otherwise, there are way more lucrative audiences to try to scam. all i'm saying, is that it makes sense if this was a government operation, because that explains why he'd want to target foreigners in his country. as for the income stream, you are undoubtedly correct. but after collecting hefty bribe/blackmail fees, he puts everyone on the snitch list, to show employers that his activities are productive.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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jetfire9000:

Do you think that schools/ teaching companies in China would give a rip about a "list" that they were or weren't on?  I know... there's not too many foreign teachers in China, ect ect. But look at how China operates.  Consider for a moment the personality and character of Chinese people.  They're not easily threatened or goaded into these types of scams. We're in their country.  We are actually the ones with perceivable weaknesses and exportability. If you wave a list in front of their face they'll laugh at you and move on.  I doubt they'd even know what eChinacities is.  When you tried explaining to them, if you could, you'd most likely get a "Shenme?" and that'd be it.  Even if you got your point across, you know that mess wouldn't register with them.   I just don't see the feasibility of making such a dubious effort of having to educate each and every school about this website, about the list you're making, and what it means to be on or off it.  And on top of that adding a threatening feel to it all.   That's just another reason I think it is a personal trick he's doing.    

 

Plus  - you'd need some kind of face to carry out such threats in China.  You'd need a phone number to call somebody with or you'd need to visit them in person.  E-mail may work but a lot of that stuff goes to spam anyway.  As we've seen, this guy doesn't have a face at all.  He essentially just stays down in momma's basement. 

9 years 5 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

that scenario definitely fits the bill, too. regarding your last comment about him having no face: if he were on the government employ, it's clear that taking any personal risks is not among his duties. perhaps a regional immigration officer contacts the teacher or school on behalf of the project, for whatever it is they want, be it bribe, arrest or leverage..

9 years 5 weeks ago
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jetfire9000:

He's doing it under the same username on Shanghai Expat as well.

 

http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/phpbbforum/china-foreign-teachers-group-busted-by-chinese-government-t182276.html?sid=8738dfb1740e38f428864e7c1ece1116

 

He uses the names Rooster, Adventurous, and XXLarge.   And he's talking to himself quite a bit more over there than here! 

9 years 5 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

speak of the devil, with 'her' annoying wall of links to his own posts and websites. your account was already unmasked when you answered a question about a threesome as a male, Wendy. so, you just thought, "fuck it, i'll do what i always do."

9 years 5 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

My favorite thing that CFTU guy does is talk about traveler.

 

"I talked to former ECC Moderator traveler and he said you guys are all recruiters!"

 

What about all those posts where traveler was saying the CFTU was chinese run? One of those stupid CFTU-network sites like china scam patrol or something even has a blog saying craig hill/traveler is a fraud.

 

Craig hill/traveler also had a beef with echinacities and wrote an article on his blog about how ECC isn't trustworthy...so now in that context CFTU guy's accounts link to him like he's some kinda trusted resource.

 

Here's that stupid anti-traveler blog


http://craighillchinadailymail.blogspot.com/

 

So which is it? is he a scammer or is he a trusted resource...but only when he says something to back up the CFTU scam's agenda?

 

 

9 years 5 weeks ago
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Swirl:

I personally think that two users here at ECC have a personal grudge against the CFTU since they are the two that constantly want to trash and bash it, yet never have any proof of their allegations. Maybe they these two people are shady China job agents that were outed and blacklisted by the CFTU - I cannot be sure. But I do find this article here to be interesting http://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic/did-you-notice-the-fake-teachers-posting-on-esl-tefl-forums/

 

Secondly, I do not see anywhere on the CFTU website that anything is being sold and nobody is asking for money - so how can there be a scam with no money involved, and what exactly is "the passive income stream" the OP alleges???  What proof do you have or is this just your guess? The membership is free and from what I know, always has been free.

 

Since we are not allowed to mention names on line here I will only say that I know two people involved in the CFTU and one is a former director "J" who worked for EF for three years and is now doing private tutoring. He invited me and my partner to the CFTU Christmas party in 2014. We both had a good time at Frank's place in Lido and there were about 120 people there.- Mostly foreigners but a dew Chinese girlfriends.  The only downside to the party was some annoying girl who kept trying to corner us and tried to talk about how she "found Jesus", but that was not a CFTU thing - just her own personal passion.

 

The group has five directors and I met three of them (Tina from the UK, Gregg from America, and Denise from Australia. The 2 I didn't meet were back in America for the holidays) 

 

I also found all these links online recently and it all looks legit to me.

 

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/activities/cftu-sponsors-cross-cultural-training-seminar-for-new-china-foreign-expat-teachers/

http://www.thebeijinger.com/events/2014/may/cftu-cross-cultural-training-seminar-new-expat-foreign-teachers-free

 

http://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic/china-school-agent-blacklists/

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/cftu-advises-how-to-break-your-contract-resign-from-a-bad-or

 

http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.org/2012/12/china-foreign-teachers-union-posts-esl.html

 

http://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6828

 

http://eslwatch.info/china-2/news-98/603-china-newsflash/12418-do-you-know-your-employee-rights-as-a-china-foreign-esl,-tefl,-or-ap-teacher.html

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/cftu-dyi-guide-how-to-check-out-a-china-foreign-teacher-job-1

http://www.expat-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=437213

 

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/china-employment-contracts-for-expats-is-a-sneaky-shell-game-scam-watch-out-foreign-teachers

 

http://www.esl-jobs-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6322

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/forum/topics/15-free-anti-scam-weapons-for-expat-china-foreign-teachers-from

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/your-help-needed-to-update-the-2015-cftu-china-esl-tefl-school

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/activities/china-foreign-teachers-union-freebie-fun-day/

 

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/events/cftu-webinar-china-contracts-and-labor-law-for-foreign-teachers-expat-employees/

 

http://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic/t-3178

 

http://eslwatch.info/forum/china/93-what-is-the-best-free-way-to-find-decent-and-safe-jobs-in-china-as-a-foreign-teacher.html

http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2014/02/07/free-legal-guide-english-china-expat-foreign-teachers

 

http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.com/2015/01/free-cftu-guidebook-china-labor.html   

 

http://www.bjstuff.com/profiles/blogs/cftu-advises-how-to-break-your-contract-resign-from-a-bad-or

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/blog/scam-alert-foreign-teacher-fraud/

 

I am also confused as to how the CFTU group could be part of any government when all the members are expats?  What would the government connection be and for what reason?  Like I said before, I think there are just a couple of people here at ECC with an ax to grind. I personally got a lot of free and useful information from the CFTU and although I will never join up with any organization in China because of what happened to the old China Teachers Alliance (the leaders all had their visa applications rejected after they criticized the teaching standards in China), I give the CFTU my moral support, even though all the unlicensed recruiters and job agents probably hate them - and understandably so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

8 years 12 weeks ago
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9 years 5 weeks ago
 
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That's a theory, that can mesh with what we know, but it not proved, just suspicions. You can be from country X, or USA, and do a bad imitation of a US citizen, clumsiness is universal. I have a hard time to believe that our tiny audience is worth 1 Mao of effort to disrupt or censor. Add the website to the Great Firewall, bam, job done once and for all. Why bother with shenanigans like Almost and the subsequent sock puppets ? I think the "scammer wannabe" or "angry man who want to see the place burn" hypothesis are more likely.

 

Let's not go all "red guard" about this. It's easy for anybody to be anybody on internet. We denounce the bullshit every time it lands here, and that's enough Smile

coineineagh:

this is my personal hunch, is all. adding ECC to the firewall wouldn't gain anybody any information. i believe this scam project is the government's attempt to elicit the sensitive info it wants from people.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

What information, to do what with it ? Being expulsed for ranting on a minor expat website, in a language most Chinese can't read, especially not-scholar-English-at-all ? From people who will eventually leave the country, in all likelihood ? Come on... We are ants on the back of a buffalo.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

DrM: don't forget the topics of these CFTU-type scam-spams are always about teaching, legalities, employers, snitching and so on. clearly, they want info on teachers & schools that break the rules. whether it's to impose fines, extort bribes or simply hold over people as leverage, this scammer is fishing for whatever sensitive info a gullible teacher might tell a union, when needing advice or help.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

Or... ESL teacher tends to be easy targets for employment with Chinese characteristic. Due to the English teaching market (no regulations), shit tend to happen more often than for say, specialized engineers and academics. You want to scam desperate people, they are more willing to believe anything... Our scammer got itself some ESL experience in China, he saw the law enforcement with Chinese characteristics, and he saw an opportunity. Nothing to loose, just need patience and persistence. Throw some stories to create or amplify a feeling of insecurity. Repeat the words "scam", "snitch" to ramp-up paranoia. Amongst the 1000s of ESL teachers, some have to be insecure, in a difficult situation, and desperate for a white knight. It  sounds like a far more likely hypothesis to me, because it involves a smaller scale: less people, lower stake at play. I occam razor. The scam is not subtle, but who said all scammers are good at their game ? Some people felt for the Nigerians email scams, it's all about persistence ^^

9 years 5 weeks ago
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Shifu

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Interesting theory Cotton let's see how it plays out...

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Shifu

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I think it's odd how he relies on Yahoo questions so much.  I thought only old people looked at that.  By old, I don't mean grandpa old, but 40 or up. 

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I must admit, I have been thinking the same. But, thinking more about it, why would they bother.  All the Government have to do is put notices on their consulate websites indicating that illegal teachers are not wanted. Or, they could add a statement to the visa application form, to be signed by the applicant, that they will not be working on a tourist visa etc.

 

Now, I am not a teacher, but I don't like this CFTU scam. The reason is simple. It is propaganda. It is a campaign that someone has designed for whatever reason. Their various websites appear in too many web searches and it is nothing short of pure scaremongering. It paints China, and the Chinese, in a bad light and puts people off from coming here.

 

Ok, we often vent on here, and there are relatively few members, but thousands of people look at this site everyday. Many of who are probably looking at working here.  So it's important that this propaganda is counteracted.  We should not allow these propagandists to put people off coming to China.

 

Every time we get a post we suspect is CFTU, we should question it. Ask for evidence. Is there a link to a genuine news article?

 

That's my take on it anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

coineineagh:

accidental downvote. sorry. you may be right, that this kind of elaborate trickery is beneath the authorities. i just try to keep an open mind, with all the chinese characteristics like wumaos, laws designed purely for leverage, selling of gov't records by employees, xenophobic media coverage, bribe-taking culture, etc. with all this in mind, i wouldn't put it past Chinagov to waste time and effort on this sort of undertaking. in fact, it's entirely in keeping with their MO.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

My vote goes to it being someone trying to get website hits to raise advertising revenue.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

Have an upvote to balance out Coin's clumsy thumb wink

9 years 5 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

I notice the same thing, it looks like it's just stuff designed to scare people. Just to spread mistrust among expats with each other, their employees, their employers, the govt. etc.

 

And it's all just nonsense you know? I'm sure there are a ton of unscrupulous recruiters here but these people make it sound like literally everybody who is here is getting constantly scammed and taken advantage of and that's just not true. 

 

Those posts are completely unhelpful and just make people feel bad.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

I really don't think the govt is too concerned about illegal unqualified teachers. They use it as propaganda and in Beijing they simply moved the unqualified teachers to agencies and hired them through those agencies. ForeignHr benefited greatly from this. Not a knock on them, but when I posted this before the CFTU guy became very defensive and protective of ForeignHr claiming to know one of the higher ups. So clearly they are protective of some agencies. Maybe they offer to target the competition?

9 years 5 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

@Engl: i'm sure the government isn't concerned about expat teachers per se, but they know there are plenty of parents paying bundles of cash for English lessons with a FT. there are lots of training centers capitalizing on the market, and not all of them follow the rules and pay their taxes. the more dirt authorities have on a school, the bigger the cut of their profits they can claim as bribes. a FT's statements could mean moneyin the bank.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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Shifu

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Definitely could be...I dunno what to think anymore. Could just be a run of the mill crazy person. Could be a shithead local just trying to make living in China seem really unpleasant. Could be a cult...

 

The only thing I know for sure is that it's not out there to help anybody who is on any of these sites. If it was they would address criticism like adults instead of throwing around accusations when anybody calls them out.

 

"You don't support our unsupported claims!?!! How dare you! You must be a recruiter! Want proof? Here's a link to another message board where I say that anyone who doesn't support our claims is a recruiter! That's all the proof you need!"

 

It seems like now that realize the CFTU "brand" is bunk and they're kinda stepping away from it. Almost posted more just dumb scam.com links and kept saying "it's YOU guys who are talking about the CFTU!"

 

 

RiriRiri:

Don't think it's a cult, and it's certainly not government backed... that would be ridiculous.

 

But yeah probably a blackmailing scheme or, from my original statement, linked to Craig Hill.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

Yeah I don't think it's a cult either really,

 

It's just their claims are so damn absurd...you know thousands and thousands of members yet not one person with a name. face, or background has ever posted anything related to them.

 

So yeah it's either one scammer, or thousands of members of anti-scam cult all living on a remote compound sworn to secrecy. The simplest explanation right?

9 years 5 weeks ago
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The 2 things I know for sure is that they report back to schools and that they claim that they will  help you find a lawyer that will charge you 10k which is complete BS. They don't want people going to SAFEA.

At first I thought they were connected w/ the govt because many legit blacklist sites were banned. 

But I really think it could be 1 guy. Because of the evidence that has been previously posted.

But I really do have a lot of questions.

Why does the govt allow him to continue?

What or how does he gain or profit? I can't imagine schools paying him for the service of reporting teachers who complain about them. But he does seem to go after some schools.

icnif77:

I believe, SAFEA holds some record of the FT. They probably have record of problematic schools, too.

Example: 'as soon as I arrive to new employer, rep. clearly state, 'School won't deposit salary to any other Bank, but School's used Bank', before I even ask them if they can deposit my pay to CMB, as 'we'll deposit salary to BOC, and not to any other Chinese bank!'

I asked (and make them do it with SAFEA's help) my previous employer, if 'they could deposit salary to CMB instead ICBC'.

New employer might called my previous employer, and asked about me and my work (as it's usual in West), but I think they get all details about me at SAFEA, while applying for new WP/FEC.

 

9 years 5 weeks ago
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But why do people keep creating new posts about it?? Doesnt it give them more opportunities to feed their shit to people?? It keeps these kind of posts always near the top.
No offence to OP but doesnt starting these convos actually gurt people more than help? Some newby comes and falls down the wormhole.

I say from now on We never answer. Let them all sit in the " need answers" section. If they answer it. We only reply with comments calling it bullshit. No arguments just bullshit. That way it will fall down the answers list into oblivion. If they keep answering it will be obvious to even new people on the site that the particular OP has an agenda to keep this at the top. Comments only. No new answers!

mike695ca:

FYI i realise im an idiot and just made an answer instead of a comment....soooooo starting NOW!!!

9 years 5 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

i think silence would be more harmful. then he'd keep on posting entrapment links, and since nobody criticizes him for it, uninformed visitors would have no reason to even suspect him of being a scammer, just a helpful, concerned user posting links. as tedious as it sounds, we should continue to call him out for his shenanigans. this guy won't go away if regular board users ignore him, because we aren't his target audience.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

I agree with Coin on this. Because we stand our ground and call BS he launches attacks on us on other boards, then answers himself. We are not the targets of his scheme, but mayby one of his targets will read these threads and think.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

But I agree with Mike too. So I will stop posting on these threads. Unless he posts something really dumb.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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jetfire9000:

I agree with you on the notion of ignoring them. But in the end that's sorta' what the guy wants too.  He hopes he will be ignored so his posts will sit in this forum, uncontested, making them appear to be believable and credible.  If they sit in the need answers section, he'll just use the other 2 accounts to pull them out of that section. 

 

It's best if Admin takes action like they're supposed to.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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mike695ca:

I think you guys misunderstood. I wasnt saying ignore it. I wad saying call bullshit only in the comments. Dont create new answers thus moving the shitty post back to the top. Anyone reading the post would see all the comments calling it bullshit just the same.

9 years 5 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

I will go with Mike on his no answer policy. only comment.

 

I have found the CFTU source.  A guy called Kenny.  I can't open this link, but I have done a lot of clicking tonight and it comes back to this.  Lots of links from the CFTU to this on the Beijinger.

 

www.international-recovery-service.com

 

 

9 years 5 weeks ago
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A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change student visa to labourer one is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77