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Q: Childbirth and China.

Life is full of crazy surprises and I got a big surprise recently.  I'm going to be a dad... somehow.
Due to visa processing times I will most likely end up here in China for the childbirth. I would 100 percent rather have it in Australia but things only happen so quickly.

Do you trust the hospitals here?
Can I travel to a better city for the birth?
Money isn't a problem but how much is a trustworthy place?
Where is the best or most reliable?

I may seem ultra cynical but I am super sad to have this baby in China. I do not trust anyone in China to do their job right and most people aren't qualified to do anything. As far as I have seen.
I will most definitely leave china as soon as possible  but there is just a waiting time on my partners immigration.

Can anyone share their experiences?

 

9 years 3 weeks ago in  Family & Kids - China

 
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i wrote a blog about our experience with the hospitals here, and my wife's struggle to get a natural birth after a horrendous c-section. unfortunately the blog was not approved due to alleged company names. even after editing every name out, it still wasn't approved. suffice to say, chinese doctors are a bunch of play-it-safe cowards, reccommending complicated procedures, over-perscribing TCM placebos, and withholding needed painkillers and medication. all to ensure the miracle of life is so traumatic for average-income households, that they wont want to go through it again. avoid if possible. brace for impact if unavoidable. pay through the nose if you have to.

ScotsAlan:

You should cut the names out and post the blog. Readers dont need names. They want to read your blog, not your allegations. As I said above, my wife had a miscarriage. At the time I thought the proposed treatment was awful. But I knew at the time the baby was gone. So did my wife. But my mil insisted we save her. She changed us from one hospital to another. My good mate Hotwater was ready to help out with the cash. We all knew the baby was gone. The doctors said so, we said so, the mil insisted money could cure. Nope. sorry Mil. That baby did not "set" in the womb. Babies are easy to make. We made another. Sometimes nature has precidence over the medics.

9 years 3 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

There weren't any allegations, unless you mean about hospitals in general. And all names have been edited out long ago. But if it's of any use to them, I'll copy the text here: VBAC IN CHINA. I write this story to send back home by e-mail, as well as post in a blog online. VBAC (= Vaginal Birth After Cesarian) is a moderately risky procedure, because there is a 0.5% chance of uterine rupture and death of the mother. Most Chinese hospitals, in fact most hospitals in the world, advise against it, and can reject patients on the grounds of danger. But the problem in China is more serious, because many people in China, like my wife, are pressured into having a Cesarian section without realizing how damaging the operation is for their health. All these C-sections, just because it's easier, safer and more profitable for Chinese hospitals to do so. This story details my wife's struggle to get a natural birth, after having experienced the horrors of Cesarian section. It's not meant as professional advice or a how-to guide, just take the information for what it's worth.

(Owen) Last year{written 2014}, my son Owen was born in March, he is almost 18 months now. We wanted natural birth, but the hospital pressured my wife into C-section, because it's more profitable and safe *for them*. To this day, I still believe they administered a muscle-tensing drug to her, because 20 hours' labour with only 3cm dilation is not normal. Owen was born very healthy, but the Cesarian section was very harmful for my wife. Many women feel deathly ill and are bedridden for months after such an operation. It was a long, painful, slow road to recovery. She wasn't able to enjoy Owen's first months very well, and keeping milk production going while she was on medicines was very difficult. When standing up, it really does feel like a thin layer of tissue separates your intestines from the floor. It's far more than a cut; the integrity of your stomach region is compromised. When my wife became pregnant 8 months after the operation, our first thought was that abortion was the safest option. Her scar had only had 8 months to heal, and most Chinese doctors reccommend abortion (though they advise that too readily). After 3 separate visits to an abortion clinic in Chengdu, we decided we couldn't go through with abortion, so that started my wife's quest to have a natural birth. Even most western hospitals rarely allow vaginal birth after Cesarian (VBAC), and Chinese hospitals allow patients even less choice than most. Of course, if you have money, you can buy the best health care in the world, anywhere in the world. But we don't, so we needed to be resourceful. Besides some basic scans and checks, my wife never registered at any hospital for the child birth. She made no written birth plan, and consulted only with a VBAC specialist (a professor of Midwifery) in distant Hainan province online. Her plan was to show up at a hospital when labour was too advanced to allow the doctors time to operate, in essence forcing them to assist in a VBAC. It seemed very risky, but my wife has a history in nursing, so I trusted that she knew what she was doing. On the evening of the 12th, contractions were so intense that we decided to go to the hospital in our local city. At 11:30 pm, we were rejected at the hospital. Hearing her unwillingness to consent to a Cesarian, the hospital staff there advised her to go to a larger hospital in Chengdu. Whether is was for the professionalism, or because the local doctors wanted to go back to playing with their phones, we also decided that that place in Chengdu would be best. It must have been 1am when we arrived at the hospital for women&children in Chengdu, and we were dismayed that they rejected us with the lame excuse "no beds". Sure, it was pretty busy there, but they have an abundance of staff on hand, and there were beds to be found. At this point, my mother-in-law and aunt were trying to get my wife to agree to a Cesarian. My wife argued with them about it, and won. Keep in mind that I had been holding my wife steady and massaging her back during painful contractions since 2pm already. We checked in to a *hotel* nearby, to await further contractions. My wife was determined to have a VBAC at that hospital. I said nothing, but I began to seriously question the wisdom of my wife's plan at this point. We had brought a large ball for my wife to bounce on (a common DOULA practice, I learned), but the ball was a little too big for her. we had left the right one at home, to our regret. In the early morning (5:30?), we checked out and returned to the hospital. They admitted her this time, and we had to wait about 2 hours outside, worrying. A doctor came by occasionally with yet another form for me to sign. After a while, I asked my in-laws, through broken Chinese and miming, if my wife was getting a C-section. They gestured YES. I was sad. After a whole day of pain, my wife didn't get the natural birth she wanted so much. I started to worry how we could take care of 2 young kids with a wife who needs to recover for months. Later on, a doctor said I could visit my wife. Apparrently she wanted me there, and was willing to pay extra for me to go into the isolated ward where she was being treated. I put on the protective clothing and footwear, and walked into a ward packed with hospital staff and women in/near labour. A few patients gave resentful glares at the foreign male allowed into a nearly 100% female ward, but at this point it was of little relevance. I saw my wife with her belly intact; the baby still inside. So, they hadn't rushed to operate; I was relieved. I got to witness the doctors' final attempt to persuade her into C-section. They even appealed to me, for my wife's safety. I showed solidarity with my wife's decision, and could explain in English that she needed to recover quickly to care for our babies. Something a C-section doeasn't allow for. The doctors understood, and came across as respectful and professional. Much better than the bullying doctors who hounded us at the county hospital last year. I consulted with a professional American nurse working locally in Chengdu, who has a family business here. She has a lot of expertise and good ties to reputable hospitals, midwives and doctors in Chengdu. Since our budget was limited, her greatest contribution was emotional support for me. She checked on our progress at the time, which she didn't need to do at all. Unfortunately, a lot of the good advice fell flat in the public hospitals. For example, they'd never allow anyone to give birth on hands and knees, even if it makes the process easier and less painful. My wife was allowed a chance at natural birth, despite the 0.5% chance of uterine rupture and maternal death. My wife used to work as a nurse, so she knows how Chinese hospitals restrict patient choices, erring on the side of caution for their own sake. But this hospital was one of the few places that could possibly perform a VBAC safely. This Hospital is staffed by hardworking people, not some incompetent setup occupied by bimbos playing on their iPhones. When it was time to give birth, my wife was sat down on one of those legspread-gynacologist's chairs, right next to a birthing pool. I really wanted them to switch 'chairs' to that pool, becausze I heard how much it relieves pain. But realistically, we were lucky to get this far, so it wasn't the time to make extra demands. The process still took hours and hours before labour commenced. I had been awake for 36 hours by then, and I was dozing off between contractions. When labour started, the doctors' and nurses' changed their demeanors from concern to positivity, as it was clear that my wife's scar wasn't an obstacle in any way (I read that scars are often fully healed after 3 months, though Chinese doctors typically advise 18-36 months between pregnancies). The baby's dreaded size also didn't seem to obstruct my wife, though they did make some incision to relieve tension. "We will cut into your wife's perineum to help the baby come out." they said. I was too zoned out to remember if that meant up or down, I just nodded 'OK'. It was down and to the left, and was later stitched up excellently by experts. I wish the local anaesthetic could have lasted a bit longer though; my wife could feel them stitching. When I asked her if it was very painful, she replied: "Nothing like Cesarian pain or labour." Always look on the bright side, and that's the whole reason why we went through so much trouble. My wife was standing gingerly but independently that very evening. Compared to the look of dismal terror I saw in her eyes after the C-section last year, I know that the trouble was worth it.

Andy, our 2nd baby, was born on 2014/08/13 at 15:49, which surprised me, since I lost track of time so badly, I could have sworn it was all still in the morning. He weighed 4400grammes, 50 less than Owen did, but perhaps leftover lung fluid made Owen heavier than Andy, whose fluids were pushed out during labour. He was very purple when he came out, but I never saw a birth before. A nurse was quick to reassure me his colour was 'pink'. I was asked if I wanted to cut the umbilical cord, but I blurted out no before I even thought about it.

I got the honour of presenting Andy to relatives outside the ward, and everyone was very excited. People were trying to incite a jealous reaction from my first son Owen with cheap shots like "Daddy doesn't like you anymore." but Owen was just happy to see me, and a little curious about Andy.

Owen is mostly happy to be with Andy, and surprisingly gentle with him. He can be a little jealous when it's Andy's breastfeeding time, but not too much. We should ween Owen off it already, because it's becoming uncomfortable for my wife.

Sidenote: Always go for breastfeeding as much and as often as you can. 2 weeks of powder feeding will make the mother unable to produce milk any longer, so don't fall into that trap. When your child has grown big, strong and healthy, fighting diseases with the mother's antibodies instead of its own, you'll be very glad you did. And if you prefer to use powder milk because you don't want your wife's breasts to change shape, well... I wish I could punch you in the face on behalf of your growth-impaired child.

9 years 3 weeks ago
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royceH:

Hey Coin, you and your wife are great!  Congratulations to you both.

Now......where's that darn daughter.....

 

9 years 3 weeks ago
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royceH:

rats

9 years 3 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

hah! i once mentioned expecting a daughter in one of my old blogs. should i blame the ultrasound or the doctor for "dropping the balls" on that one? No Andrea after all, to my wife's slight disappointment. We were both hoping for a daughter, but Andy's a great baby too. He has the sweetest smile. He's 7 months now, and 12kg! I call him my little piggy. He's vocal and merry, compared to Owen being physical and adventurous. Andy has barely even turned over, while Owen was walking independently at 9 months. Owen however, understands plenty in Chinese and English, but he's taking his sweet time with talking. Almost 2 years and saying mostly just Mama, Yu (chinese word for Fish), and the occasional Baba if he's feeling generous.

9 years 3 weeks ago
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sunderlandt:

What an adventure. Thanks for sharing that, reading happy endings helps.
Best of luck to you guys!

9 years 3 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Good blog wink

9 years 3 weeks ago
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dongbeiren:

Well-written and descriptive blog post Coin. I'm glad it worked out in the end for you.

9 years 3 weeks ago
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9 years 3 weeks ago
 
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The hospitals here are fine when it comes to delivering babies. We used a downtown GZ hospital and I think it cost about 15k RMB. But remember you need to be married to your partner because you need the baby permission book or they will turn you away. First hand, I have not heard any horror stories about child birth. But be warned.....having babies in China is most definately a woman thing. Her mum will want to be in the delivery room and you will end up feeling pushed out. But thats no problem.

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Trusting hospital there => My wife had to go to hospitals for minor but annoying issues, the experience was consistently bad, until we found a Singapore-run hospital. More expensive to get a consultation, but it ends up cheaper than the 100% local hospitals because they don't over prescribe and they don't send you to X-ray/ultrasounds even for a sore throat... Overall, my own trust is very low.

 

Ho, and China is C-Section country, world highest rate of C-Section usage. "but Asian women are narrow" => yeah, right, then why they don't need more C-section than other women out of China ?

 

Travel to an other, better city => Reading the blogs of a few woman living in China, and who gave birth in China : *YES*, several did that (going to HK, or at least Shanghai).

How to know if the place is ok => Ask women (online) who gave births, where they went. Don't listen too much about what men says (I am a man ^^), I think it's the women who have to do the really hard part, and who can talk from 1st hand experience. Some samples (you have to type those in Google, need VeePeeN):
http://therealexpathousewivesofwuxi.blogspot.com/.../pregnant-in-china.html
https://mystrangefamily.wordpress.com/2011/.../pregnant-in-hong-kong/

I understand very well how you feel. We wish to have a child, but I pushed *a lot* to be in France when this is likely to happen : I want proper care for my family, with much less pollution. It's not cynism, it's being responsible and caring for your family.
 

ScotsAlan:

Yup Dr M, babies are a woman thing :-) But its also different from anything medically non standard. The baby doctors and nurses are doing the same thing day in day out. When it comes to babies they know what they are doing. I did have an unpleasant experience when the wife had a miscarriage, but I understand what was going on with that now.

9 years 3 weeks ago
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9 years 3 weeks ago
 
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well, I feel like I have to say this-  I have been given Wonderful treatment at hospitals in SZ. Absolutely wonderful.  Including surgery following an accident.  I've witnessed professional treatment, equipment, and attitude. Basically saved my life and I am very thankful for their treatment, care, & concern.

 

* I am of the XY chromosome persuasion, so I'm pretty sure I'm not talking about childbirth

* sometimes some of the facilities do look 1970ish, but not all, and they still did a very good job for me

* I hate to say it, but I do believe that I was given somewhat special treatment being an American caucasoid (but all in all I think anyone would get proper treatment)

coineineagh:

wrong post

9 years 3 weeks ago
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9 years 3 weeks ago
 
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And, well, I feel like I have to say this.... I do not trust the medical system in China to perform at anything above the most basic of levels.  

If your baby's birth is uncomplicated then you can get it done and get the hell out of there.  (And don't be suckered into staying any longer in hospital than is necessary.  ie; healthy, uncomplicated child birth = overnight in hospital.)

But, and I'm sorry to suggest it, if there happens to be some concern, for mother or baby, well good fkn luck!

I have had first hand experience of hospital procedure in China and it is 3rd world.  I can say this based on the fact I have worked in hospitals for over 2 decades.  More than 12 years in an operating theatre.

Trust me, the accepted practices here in China are 19th century.

Quite seriously, if it was my wife and I having a baby in China, I would arrange to be in the best hospital I could find.  Pay the money.  And I would have established a rapport with an obstetrician as early in the pregnancy as possible.  And that rapport would involve a pact that, whatever the time of day, that obstetrician will commit to being at the delivery.  A pact like that will involve cost, and I would be only too happy to pay it.

Otherwise the risk is run that whoever is on duty will manage the birth.  And better than even money that that person wouldn't even get a look in at any 1st world obstetrics unit.

If you have to have the baby in China then start doing your homework now.

In the event of something not going quite right you should want to be somewhere where they can manage it.

And mate, good luck to you and your sweetheart!

Oh, one more thing, why not consider The Scotsman's advice?  

 

 

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9 years 3 weeks ago
 
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First of all...Congrats to you.

My friends just had a baby this past December. We all live in a third tiered city, so it was a small hospital. It was the hospital's first foreign born baby they said. The doctors and nurses were very patient, polite and professional. Yes, they had to do the picture thing (selfies with the baby). But, the care and treatment was very good.

Due to the size of the baby and a tired mother, the child was born through a C-section. And, the baby was born with hypoxia (lack od oxygen). There was no real danger to the baby. The hospital placed the baby in an incubator for a few days to raise the oxygen level of the blood. The parents were able to stay in the room with the baby. And, when the baby was moved to the regular room with the parents, it was nothing but great service.

I will say this about delivering babies in China...who else has more experience? They have 1.35 billion people in China. One third of the world's population has been born in these hospitals. I think they are well prepared for most situations. Of course, there will be the negative expats on this forum that will say nothing good comes from China. But, I would not worry too much about having a baby in China, regardless of where you live.

DrMonkey:

Sure, quantity is everything... Seriously ?!!

9 years 3 weeks ago
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And dont forget...this is the year of the sheep. Not a good year to have a baby for the Chinese. But excellent for us. The hospitals will be empty because of stupid superstition.

coineineagh:

if they're afraid of their kids becoming like sheep,i'd say it's too late already.

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I've had three children born in China, one 12 years ago and twins just over five years ago.

I used the Sino-Japanese Friendship Hospital in Beijing for my first-born and GZ's #1 Provincial Hospital for my twins.

There's a lot of western clinics attached to hospitals that can offer you western-style deliveries. The one attached to the #1 Provincial hospital couldn't give me an estimate on delivery of my twins except to say, "40K RMB to 100K RMB minimum."

The #1 Hospital quoted 14K RMB but it ended up being 30K RMB.

Way back when, the Sino-Japanese Hospital was supposed to be 8K but it was closer to 20K RMB when all was said and done.

All deliveries were by c-section (first delivery was already +2 weeks overdue, the twins because my wife's water broke but there were no contractions five hours later).

Choice of hospital may also depend on whether or not you plan to register your baby as a foreign national or not. Keep in mind, for later, that the system does not allow for names longer than 14 characters in total so a long (multi-part) English name may present problems for registry for birth certificates/citizenship/passports later on.

The experience, personally, was hell for me. Not allowed in the delivery room, pay-as-you-go before you even hear about the health/condition of your wife and children, you've got to plan for and think of everything,

Anyhoo, it's a different and unique situation for each person. I've had my experiences, you'll have yours.

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Im also having a kid and it will be born in China. We are in the process of finding a private hospital now. Looks like it will be some kind of VIP room with like a two bedroom apartment in the hospital! Balcony and kitchen and living room as well. Never heard of that but it was impressive. Facilities look much better than the public hospitals but im super worried about the staff being dumb.

As for the C section i was prepared to threaten them with death if they cut my wife just to make a profit. But my wife being from a C section country doesnt seem to be sooo against the idea. So its up to her i guess.

As for money im guessing around 30K plus more if they do the C section. Whatever it takes to make her comfortable and safe.

ScotsAlan:

Congtratulations Mr and Mrs Mike :-) Hoefully baby will inherit mum`s genes :-)

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i wrote a blog about our experience with the hospitals here, and my wife's struggle to get a natural birth after a horrendous c-section. unfortunately the blog was not approved due to alleged company names. even after editing every name out, it still wasn't approved. suffice to say, chinese doctors are a bunch of play-it-safe cowards, reccommending complicated procedures, over-perscribing TCM placebos, and withholding needed painkillers and medication. all to ensure the miracle of life is so traumatic for average-income households, that they wont want to go through it again. avoid if possible. brace for impact if unavoidable. pay through the nose if you have to.

ScotsAlan:

You should cut the names out and post the blog. Readers dont need names. They want to read your blog, not your allegations. As I said above, my wife had a miscarriage. At the time I thought the proposed treatment was awful. But I knew at the time the baby was gone. So did my wife. But my mil insisted we save her. She changed us from one hospital to another. My good mate Hotwater was ready to help out with the cash. We all knew the baby was gone. The doctors said so, we said so, the mil insisted money could cure. Nope. sorry Mil. That baby did not "set" in the womb. Babies are easy to make. We made another. Sometimes nature has precidence over the medics.

9 years 3 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

There weren't any allegations, unless you mean about hospitals in general. And all names have been edited out long ago. But if it's of any use to them, I'll copy the text here: VBAC IN CHINA. I write this story to send back home by e-mail, as well as post in a blog online. VBAC (= Vaginal Birth After Cesarian) is a moderately risky procedure, because there is a 0.5% chance of uterine rupture and death of the mother. Most Chinese hospitals, in fact most hospitals in the world, advise against it, and can reject patients on the grounds of danger. But the problem in China is more serious, because many people in China, like my wife, are pressured into having a Cesarian section without realizing how damaging the operation is for their health. All these C-sections, just because it's easier, safer and more profitable for Chinese hospitals to do so. This story details my wife's struggle to get a natural birth, after having experienced the horrors of Cesarian section. It's not meant as professional advice or a how-to guide, just take the information for what it's worth.

(Owen) Last year{written 2014}, my son Owen was born in March, he is almost 18 months now. We wanted natural birth, but the hospital pressured my wife into C-section, because it's more profitable and safe *for them*. To this day, I still believe they administered a muscle-tensing drug to her, because 20 hours' labour with only 3cm dilation is not normal. Owen was born very healthy, but the Cesarian section was very harmful for my wife. Many women feel deathly ill and are bedridden for months after such an operation. It was a long, painful, slow road to recovery. She wasn't able to enjoy Owen's first months very well, and keeping milk production going while she was on medicines was very difficult. When standing up, it really does feel like a thin layer of tissue separates your intestines from the floor. It's far more than a cut; the integrity of your stomach region is compromised. When my wife became pregnant 8 months after the operation, our first thought was that abortion was the safest option. Her scar had only had 8 months to heal, and most Chinese doctors reccommend abortion (though they advise that too readily). After 3 separate visits to an abortion clinic in Chengdu, we decided we couldn't go through with abortion, so that started my wife's quest to have a natural birth. Even most western hospitals rarely allow vaginal birth after Cesarian (VBAC), and Chinese hospitals allow patients even less choice than most. Of course, if you have money, you can buy the best health care in the world, anywhere in the world. But we don't, so we needed to be resourceful. Besides some basic scans and checks, my wife never registered at any hospital for the child birth. She made no written birth plan, and consulted only with a VBAC specialist (a professor of Midwifery) in distant Hainan province online. Her plan was to show up at a hospital when labour was too advanced to allow the doctors time to operate, in essence forcing them to assist in a VBAC. It seemed very risky, but my wife has a history in nursing, so I trusted that she knew what she was doing. On the evening of the 12th, contractions were so intense that we decided to go to the hospital in our local city. At 11:30 pm, we were rejected at the hospital. Hearing her unwillingness to consent to a Cesarian, the hospital staff there advised her to go to a larger hospital in Chengdu. Whether is was for the professionalism, or because the local doctors wanted to go back to playing with their phones, we also decided that that place in Chengdu would be best. It must have been 1am when we arrived at the hospital for women&children in Chengdu, and we were dismayed that they rejected us with the lame excuse "no beds". Sure, it was pretty busy there, but they have an abundance of staff on hand, and there were beds to be found. At this point, my mother-in-law and aunt were trying to get my wife to agree to a Cesarian. My wife argued with them about it, and won. Keep in mind that I had been holding my wife steady and massaging her back during painful contractions since 2pm already. We checked in to a *hotel* nearby, to await further contractions. My wife was determined to have a VBAC at that hospital. I said nothing, but I began to seriously question the wisdom of my wife's plan at this point. We had brought a large ball for my wife to bounce on (a common DOULA practice, I learned), but the ball was a little too big for her. we had left the right one at home, to our regret. In the early morning (5:30?), we checked out and returned to the hospital. They admitted her this time, and we had to wait about 2 hours outside, worrying. A doctor came by occasionally with yet another form for me to sign. After a while, I asked my in-laws, through broken Chinese and miming, if my wife was getting a C-section. They gestured YES. I was sad. After a whole day of pain, my wife didn't get the natural birth she wanted so much. I started to worry how we could take care of 2 young kids with a wife who needs to recover for months. Later on, a doctor said I could visit my wife. Apparrently she wanted me there, and was willing to pay extra for me to go into the isolated ward where she was being treated. I put on the protective clothing and footwear, and walked into a ward packed with hospital staff and women in/near labour. A few patients gave resentful glares at the foreign male allowed into a nearly 100% female ward, but at this point it was of little relevance. I saw my wife with her belly intact; the baby still inside. So, they hadn't rushed to operate; I was relieved. I got to witness the doctors' final attempt to persuade her into C-section. They even appealed to me, for my wife's safety. I showed solidarity with my wife's decision, and could explain in English that she needed to recover quickly to care for our babies. Something a C-section doeasn't allow for. The doctors understood, and came across as respectful and professional. Much better than the bullying doctors who hounded us at the county hospital last year. I consulted with a professional American nurse working locally in Chengdu, who has a family business here. She has a lot of expertise and good ties to reputable hospitals, midwives and doctors in Chengdu. Since our budget was limited, her greatest contribution was emotional support for me. She checked on our progress at the time, which she didn't need to do at all. Unfortunately, a lot of the good advice fell flat in the public hospitals. For example, they'd never allow anyone to give birth on hands and knees, even if it makes the process easier and less painful. My wife was allowed a chance at natural birth, despite the 0.5% chance of uterine rupture and maternal death. My wife used to work as a nurse, so she knows how Chinese hospitals restrict patient choices, erring on the side of caution for their own sake. But this hospital was one of the few places that could possibly perform a VBAC safely. This Hospital is staffed by hardworking people, not some incompetent setup occupied by bimbos playing on their iPhones. When it was time to give birth, my wife was sat down on one of those legspread-gynacologist's chairs, right next to a birthing pool. I really wanted them to switch 'chairs' to that pool, becausze I heard how much it relieves pain. But realistically, we were lucky to get this far, so it wasn't the time to make extra demands. The process still took hours and hours before labour commenced. I had been awake for 36 hours by then, and I was dozing off between contractions. When labour started, the doctors' and nurses' changed their demeanors from concern to positivity, as it was clear that my wife's scar wasn't an obstacle in any way (I read that scars are often fully healed after 3 months, though Chinese doctors typically advise 18-36 months between pregnancies). The baby's dreaded size also didn't seem to obstruct my wife, though they did make some incision to relieve tension. "We will cut into your wife's perineum to help the baby come out." they said. I was too zoned out to remember if that meant up or down, I just nodded 'OK'. It was down and to the left, and was later stitched up excellently by experts. I wish the local anaesthetic could have lasted a bit longer though; my wife could feel them stitching. When I asked her if it was very painful, she replied: "Nothing like Cesarian pain or labour." Always look on the bright side, and that's the whole reason why we went through so much trouble. My wife was standing gingerly but independently that very evening. Compared to the look of dismal terror I saw in her eyes after the C-section last year, I know that the trouble was worth it.

Andy, our 2nd baby, was born on 2014/08/13 at 15:49, which surprised me, since I lost track of time so badly, I could have sworn it was all still in the morning. He weighed 4400grammes, 50 less than Owen did, but perhaps leftover lung fluid made Owen heavier than Andy, whose fluids were pushed out during labour. He was very purple when he came out, but I never saw a birth before. A nurse was quick to reassure me his colour was 'pink'. I was asked if I wanted to cut the umbilical cord, but I blurted out no before I even thought about it.

I got the honour of presenting Andy to relatives outside the ward, and everyone was very excited. People were trying to incite a jealous reaction from my first son Owen with cheap shots like "Daddy doesn't like you anymore." but Owen was just happy to see me, and a little curious about Andy.

Owen is mostly happy to be with Andy, and surprisingly gentle with him. He can be a little jealous when it's Andy's breastfeeding time, but not too much. We should ween Owen off it already, because it's becoming uncomfortable for my wife.

Sidenote: Always go for breastfeeding as much and as often as you can. 2 weeks of powder feeding will make the mother unable to produce milk any longer, so don't fall into that trap. When your child has grown big, strong and healthy, fighting diseases with the mother's antibodies instead of its own, you'll be very glad you did. And if you prefer to use powder milk because you don't want your wife's breasts to change shape, well... I wish I could punch you in the face on behalf of your growth-impaired child.

9 years 3 weeks ago
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royceH:

Hey Coin, you and your wife are great!  Congratulations to you both.

Now......where's that darn daughter.....

 

9 years 3 weeks ago
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royceH:

rats

9 years 3 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

hah! i once mentioned expecting a daughter in one of my old blogs. should i blame the ultrasound or the doctor for "dropping the balls" on that one? No Andrea after all, to my wife's slight disappointment. We were both hoping for a daughter, but Andy's a great baby too. He has the sweetest smile. He's 7 months now, and 12kg! I call him my little piggy. He's vocal and merry, compared to Owen being physical and adventurous. Andy has barely even turned over, while Owen was walking independently at 9 months. Owen however, understands plenty in Chinese and English, but he's taking his sweet time with talking. Almost 2 years and saying mostly just Mama, Yu (chinese word for Fish), and the occasional Baba if he's feeling generous.

9 years 3 weeks ago
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sunderlandt:

What an adventure. Thanks for sharing that, reading happy endings helps.
Best of luck to you guys!

9 years 3 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Good blog wink

9 years 3 weeks ago
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dongbeiren:

Well-written and descriptive blog post Coin. I'm glad it worked out in the end for you.

9 years 3 weeks ago
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9 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Thanks for the comments. That's why I still like this website, for the answers section.
Sometimes it seems like a propaganda machine but you guys are great. Thanks.

coineineagh:

Yeah, it is that too. But it's the only expat site that loads fast in China, so we're pretty much stuck with it. No disrespect for the staff; they do produce the occasional good article.

9 years 3 weeks ago
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9 years 3 weeks ago
 
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As a funny addition to this thread....

 

A UK mate got married to a Chinese woman last year. They had to get married, because the baby had been made. Intentionally of course.

 

Anyway, she wanted the baby to be born in the UK. She would not believe us when we said the baby could be born in China and would still be British.

 

So my mate went and spent a fortune on an agent to get his wife a spouse visa, and off they went, complete with an auntie, to have the baby in the UK.

 

Now get this. I am a Brit. And without a doubt the British National Health service is fantastic.  And it's free too. For everyone.

 

But,.... my friends Chinese wife was not impressed.  She could not understand why she could not pay for "extras". She could not understand why the medical staff wanted her to spend as little time in the hospital as possible.  She thought she could go in as a VIP ( my mate has money) and be given extra special treatment.  The care she got was great of course, but it blew her mind that all patients in UK NHS hospitals are treated equally.

 

Lol, I giggled about that. The irony of it.

 

As an additional note about the NHS. I remember a few years back the company sent a Chinese worker over to the UK to do some training. But the woman fell ill, and she was taken to hospital.  Unfortunately, she had a miscarriage, and in the end was in the hospital for about a week.  The company asked the hospital how much the bill was ( Chinese on UK business visas are not entitled to free health care). The hospital said, "Don't worry about that, just get the girl home to her husband".

 

Good news was that she did go on to have a cute healthy baby a few years later.

 

On yet another note, while I sing the praise for Chinese hospitals and medical staff for the giving birth part, no way would I trust a Chinese hospital to do an abortion.  No way.

 

 

 

 

coineineagh:

Oh yeah. There's plenty stories in China of women unable to concieve after having an abortion. It's probably like this: "I'm a loyal Red Guard doctor, and I consider it my patriotic duty to gunk up the works while I'm in there, to promote One Child Policy."

9 years 3 weeks ago
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9 years 3 weeks ago
 
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In Zhuhai we have the Womens and Children hospital. This is where most want to go, and also where my child was born. It has a good reputation among the locals and most expats who've had children seem to also have used it. 

 

The doc that we saw throughout the pregnancy was a cold bitch. We've been there when the girl in queue in front of us got told "no heartbeat, goodbye" she looked like she was in second trimester. 

The same doc also overprescribed tests. And a lot of the tests are BS, e.g. there is one where, for the last 6 weeks of pregnancy the pregnant woman has to go each week to lie in a room with electrodes on the belly.

The hospital did not offer any relevant tests for early detection of down syndrome, they did get blood samples from both of us for a genetic issue that, after some research, I found is not relevant if one parent is Caucasian. E.g. a nuchal translucency scan is not part of the default test. Look up what it is for, and you know you'll want it. We spent a lot of time chasing around several hospitals to find a ultrasound technician who knew what to do, thanks to our super doc we didn't look in the hospital we were already in as she said it couldn't be done there. It could. 

Delivery. Well, the hospital got a lot better. The staff was more professional, no chaos in that section of the hospital, and the post delivery expirience was even better, that section had nurses that actually looked like they like children, and they spent time in talking to us and helping with getting going in the parenting game (note other comments by me on Chinese parenting) Apart from one nurse who ridiculed me in front of 20 peeps because I claimed that it was wrong to put a baby on its back, always facing up (makes the back of the head flat, it is only an aesthetical issue) 

 

Anyway. Ask around. Get other peoples experiences from the local hospitals. 

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9 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Hotwater:

Go on then - provide proof of your allegation or an apology to the OP for slander. 

9 years 5 days ago
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Strawberry66:

Aplogize?Lol.Why would I need to prove as I have got already approched by the two guys?

It's a good warnning to do good things for other girls.

What made you hilarious think to lie about it to humilate these two guys?

9 years 5 days ago
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coineineagh:

Then what's to stop this cunt from claiming I contacted her? Which I didn't. I'm a father of 2, and need to know my reputation is not this easily tarnished on the internet. Ban the b*tch.

9 years 5 days ago
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Strawberry66:

Your stupility to not trust what i said will only make the two guys do more bad things on girls on ecc.

I believe a voice of mine will still do save some girls but it needs more voice.

9 years 5 days ago
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coineineagh:

Chinese person online says: "Trust my words without evidence." This is ECC, not BaiDu.

9 years 5 days ago
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Strawberry66:

I am not gonna search a lot to get the message this guy sent to me.Plus I deleted lordhanson's messages to me.

I don't really need to make you believe.But my words will be a warning for the girls to be more careful here.Which is enough for me to tell the truth here.

9 years 5 days ago
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Strawberry66:

Lordhanson,the british guy told me that he was looking for a wife and he was single,then only a few monthes latter after we stopped talking to each other on wechat(like after 4 monthes or something),then he post on line for getting visa for his wife and son.lol.

This guy told me that he wanted to meet me and he said he was interested in knowing me.Then like only a few monthes latter(like 2 monthes or something),now he post that he has a partner and has an unborn child)

Wtf.You tell me what is going on?

9 years 5 days ago
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Strawberry66:

I have no reason to lie.What can I get?Gain face?Are you misleaded by Chinese culture to think people tell the truth is gainning face?

For people who called me bad name and told me to shut up.You own an apologize,you have no right to call me bad name.You have no idea what I had been going through.And I am just doing a good thing to tell the truth to save other girls from them.

9 years 5 days ago
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coineineagh:

Provide a screenshot of your mailbox with the alleged Private Message, and I'll happily apologize. If not, you're just throwing mud at a user who hasn't commented on this site for over 3 weeks. I happen to like this thread, because one of the comments has my blog post of my kids' birth in it. Your accusation makes a good thread look dirty.

9 years 5 days ago
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dokken:

<p>If she's telling the truth then these guys are rats. if she is not then she herself is a rat. It's a random and terrible accusation to make unless there is some truth to it. I don't know how men could ever cheat on their pregnant wives. Horrible</p>

9 years 4 days ago
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Strawberry66:

This guy just sent me message recently for wanting to meet me up in Shanghai.I called him bad name.

9 years 4 days ago
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9 years 6 days ago
 
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Wow, prices in these cities are awesome.  We looked at Beijing where we know several people who have given birth. We were quoted 40-60k for natural birth (at Chinese hospitals).  A c-section was 60-120k, but apparently you could get a 40% discount if you booked it 6 months in advance.

 

my colleague, who is western, told me that they gave out many red envelopes for extras, such as private room and better service.  In the end, I went home to deliver, spent 4 days in the hospital and paid about 4k + flight tickets.

coineineagh:

Yes, Chinese like to buy dinner for the birth doctor when registering at the hospital. It establishes a rapport. My wife had a nursing background, so she could get echos done in exchange for gifts like a box of milk. Still, bribes aside, you should assess the quality of the hospital first. Otherwise, you're hongbao are wasted, because they can't provide professionalism if they have none.

9 years 5 days ago
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9 years 5 days ago
 
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<p>It is now 5 years ago, we have paid some 6K+ for delivery by C-section in Yiwu, Zhejiang. it included all the "care" ( they included each temperature measurnment and pushing the belly for releasing more blood by 5rmb, washing the newborn and so on ) food you have to bring yourself and so all the things. We received just one set of cotton clothing for newborn from hospital, for free. So I was day and night with my wife, cared about them, drive motorbike back home, cooked food, arrange work in office to staffs and back to hospital, changed diapers for son and tissues for wife... Yeah, It was great experience, I can do that all myself, while woman on beside bed has complete family members doing each only one part of job and always busy there and loudly.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;So it can be in affordable budged, and relatively clean and safe. we no need register the space, but it come with the need of waiting with bags in hands to delivery finished and only then we was send to free bed. In cities it will be necesity to register room or bed long time in advance. China many people. &nbsp;</p>

xinyuren:

<p>I did this twice. &nbsp;Me and my MIL were a tag team. &nbsp;I had night shift and she had the days. &nbsp;It was tiring, but I wouldn't do it any different.</p>

9 years 4 days ago
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9 years 4 days ago
 
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Well,now I have to write another statement for this guy and Lord-handson.I talked with both of them.They told me they didn't cheat on their wife and partner,they just disliked me and one guy just wanted to make sure if I am real.So they set a trick on me to pretend to be interested in  me.

I am not sure if they are telling the truth or not.But I choose to believe what the two guys said are true.If they lied to me,then it's their own problem to be failed as a decent human being.I tried to trust people are good and give people chance.

I just want to tell them to talk with me directly if they have some opinion on me rather than playing those childish game with me.

I am a decent lady,I want to write it down for them to not get judged badly for what i wrote about them before.

coineineagh:

Yes, one big protracted scene. And the only thing that is certain after all is said and done, is that you love attention, and people are tired of attention-seekers.

8 years 51 weeks ago
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8 years 51 weeks ago
 
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