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Q: China no longer accepts online TEFL/TESOL?
What's this I'm hearing about schools no longer accepting online TEFL/TESOL?
I didn't find anything about it online, so it is it just more visa gossip or are they really changing the standards?
10 years 40 weeks ago in Visa & Legalities - China
What standards? I didn't know there were standards in China. The only standard I know is that if they want they can very much do what they want. Perhaps you may get the standard of the day. Tomorrow? Well, let's see....perhaps a new standard?
If they are stopping accepting online TEFL/TESOL certificates then that to me is an improvement, if only a minor one. These online courses don't give you any supervised teaching practice, just some theory, so should not be accepted.
coineineagh:
I disagree. My TEFL was from i-to-i, and they do include 20 hours of classrom training (longer if you pay more). the online parts are stuff you can study at home, like grammar awareness.
Hotwater:
So yours wasn't a purely online course as it quite rightly included teaching practise.
i'm not a teacher myself but when I was first sent to China on business trips it was to carry out induction training with Chinese Engineers here in the companies products & Engineering systems. I knew my job well but had never trained people before. So I sent to night school to do an Adult Teaching Certificate. As part of the course I had to log a minimum of 40 teaching/training hours during the year, 16 hours of which were monitored by the course tutors. The feedback from each of those monitored classes were good as it helped me inmprove my lesson planning and in particular to gauge what learning had taken place as I found it very hard at first to elict responses from Chinese Engineers. A lot ot the time, initially, the "yes" response was actually "yes I know you asked me a question" and not "yes I understood". So I learnt to ask questions that could not be answered yes or no.
I know Shenzhen doesn't allow online TEFL's anymore, that's if they really look at it. BTW it isn't the schools that aren't accepting, its the FEC labor department, they're the one's who check your Degree and TEFL then if you pass you get your little red book and next comes the PSB for a RP..
Yeh, I totally agree with Lois !! It seems that alot of this doesn't make any sense..surprise..surpise!!
So, if on-line quals are not accepted, and some are very reputable, does that mean you need a full Bachelor's Degree & TESOL to teach pre-school (kindergarden), Primary School in China??
I suppose these Chinese kids are so brilliant that the teachers need to be well creditioned to be able to teach these 'gifted' kids ??
Certainly not my experience in China...
Sure, have standards for Academic Teaching etc. but in the main..its a struggle just to get them to open their mouths & spout a few English words that took them years to learn at Chinese Schools !!
THis Govt. really hasn't got a clue about educ. in China (mainly cos all their kids are educated o/s) if they did, they wouldn't worry so much about our quals, they'd build more school/classrooms, have less students in class & pay their teachers more money, so they'd attract the best candidates from Uni.
But, it won't happen...Space & Military spending are far more important.
Honestly I don't think it really matters unless your certificate says "online" somewhere. Mine was online and no one said a thing. But in the end I think we all know it comes down to guanxi. I spent most of this morning at the local PSB registering and beginning to build my own guanxi with them. I spent 2 hours fake smiling, nodding, letting them take copious amounts of pictures with me, complementing the female officers and joking around with the male officers, all while saying "This is fucking awkward" straight to their faces because I knew they didn't know what "fucking awkward" meant. This is the same PSB they gave my boss the Ok for my employer to hire me without have 2 years teaching experience,
My boss did say however that the President, in addition to changing the visa law for foreigners, is, in the next couple of years, planning to implement an additional requirement for foreign teachers: They must be certified teachers in home countries. Meaning that a TESOL/CELTA will no longer suffice. You have to actually have a teacher's certification from a state in the US if you are American. This is already the case in middle easern countries like Saudi Arabia, so I guess China is trying to follow suit.
ironman510:
If that really happens, I'll go to Saudi, China will get their wish and no certified teacher will come here, well at least 90%
ironman510:
Please be sure to ask your boss about how foreign husbands and wives are gonna say good bye to their Chinese wives and husband's and kids, even investments... Sorry honey I'm force to leave China due to the new teaching requirement, I must be a certified teacher... Good bye... Well of course if that happens then all foreigners will be forced to work on any visa they can get and it'll become much worse.
coineineagh:
American movies are subtitled and played in English here. If you think nobody understood the meaning of "fucking", then you were the one acting stupid.
WanderingTeacher:
Ironman: Yeah I agree. One of the teachers here before me just reached his 5 year mark of being married to his Chinese wife, so they will be able to move together to America if need be. For anyone else, I would assume they would need to start making arrangements just in case. It's an unfortunate situation.
Coineineagh: Who said anything about anyone acting stupid? And I know they did not understand me because I pronounced fucking as "facking" (because I'm not that presumptuous) and also because no one here speaks enough English to know what awkward means. Calm down.
If that is what they decide, I would gladly go and teach somewhere else. They make the rules, and they are making it clear that we are not welcomed here. The govt does not want foreigners in China period.
If I treated my children like property and my wife like crap, I wouldn't invite a good father and husband over to be my house guest.
ironman510:
I'm a 100% with you, if China doesn't want us, ok, we'll leave...
Hotwater:
Seems to me that they are starting to make it clear that they do not want un-qualified teachers here.........I'm sure the USA is the same as the UK in that to teach in schools, from primary through to graduation from high school a teacher has to be certified. So either 4 year teaching degree or bachelors degree + 1 year teaching certificate.
Also don't know about the USA but to work in a kindergarten in the UK you normally need to be qualified as a nursery nurse or teaching assistant.
So I'm not surprised that China is looking to improve the standards requirements for foreign teachers here.
......and of course in developed countries people working with children also need to have criminal record checks to ensure they don't have prior convictions for child abuse, etc. Again China is doing the right thing in asking for criminal record checks for new foreign teachers.
I can sympathise if you've taught here for years without being fully qualified and have settled down and have children with your Chinese wife but I'd start looking into how you can either ensure your stay here legally or move elsewhere that will accept un-qualified teachers. Note that the other countries that use to accept un-qualified teachers are also tightening their rules. An old friend of mine had settled in Thailand, got married and had two kids, while being a TEFL teacher. He moved back to the UK with his family a couple of years ago as he was finding it increasingly difficult to work as a teacher in Thailand...he went back to get fully qualified so he could again work legally in Thailand.
So if you really want to stay here legally as a teacher it might be worth your while getting fully qualified/certified.
Certification is everything these days (as it's been for some while in developed countries), and it's not limited to the education sector.
If you want to make it in IT, you also need certification (ie. Microsoft Certification). You could know Windows Server like the back of your hand, but without certification most companies won't hire you.
It's not about China phasing out foreigners, it's about them upping their standards which is funny considering so many people complain about China's "standards" on these forums, and now you're complaining they want to increase their standards because it means you may be out of a job. This also happens back home in our home countries where people without the proper piece of paper are finding themselves increasingly unemployable (although skilled and capable).
Trying to bring marriage, family, and children into the equation is just ridiculous. Ok, so let's say China gives you a "green card" just because you're married and have children, but how are you going to find work if you're still not a certified teacher? You want them to give you a green card and a job just because you're married with children?
The solution? Plan, adapt. The times are changing, actually, they're always changing.
juanisaac:
What certified teacher in their right minds would like to come China and work for 5k a month at a government school? The Chinese government can certainly make whatever requirement it wants, but at the same time has to accept the consequences of it's actions. Illegal teachers will certainly increase; in trying to fix one problem the government will just create a worse one. The Chinese can certainly get rid of me in the next few years, but once I am home I will also boycott Chinese goods and almost everything to do with China.
But I will be nice too Chinese people of course, for they were not the problem here.
ironman510:
It's not ridiculous when it comes to taking care of family man, watch your mouth, it ain't easy to juggalo the "1 year at a time visa" family life style stuff in China, so Iron Monkey cut us a little slack, ok?, I have computer science masters degree, so HELL YES, give me that green card and I can walk into any company that is not licensed to hire Foreigners and get a job because of the green card.. Why don't I work in a computer company? I tried, Wallstreet English + overtime equals more and less hours and a cleaner and healthier environment.. watch how you judge people Iron monkey
Iron_Monkey:
I was making a larger observation about what's happening is not limited to only the education sector in China. Even my profession has gotten the squeeze over the last 7+ years I've been in China where foreigners before could get middle management positions with decent compensation packages, not anymore. Yes, it's a different type of "squeeze" but the result is the same; less foreigners employed.
I wish you the best, really, but I'm also assuming you took possible future visa/working complications and every changing rules and regulations into consideration when you chose to marry in China.
However, we're foreigners in China (of all places), so don't expect much sympathy. Chinese people think we're all rich and well off so if we're out of work here, we'll just go home to our Playboy mansions and Lamborghini's.
You're more educated than me so maybe I should be more worried.
juanisaac is right...No certified teacher wants to come here, well maybe for experience or family reasons. I don't agree with Iron Monkey about catching up to standards, but it's what hey should require in all fairness. a lot of us know that we are not wanted here long term.well you know this if you have government friends.
sam239:
Well as sinobear said, China is for the Chinese and we are at best accepted, but as another wise man said, money is god here, so as long as locals can make money off having foreign staff here, they will find a way to make it work. Same in Thailand and Korea, they have the anti~foreign crackdowns from time to time, but these never seem to last. It is more like an emotional outburst than a reasoned and thought out plan. Thats my optimistic take on it, anyways.
ironman510:
That's optimistic and probably the most logical way to look at it..
I can't post a comment.
Hotwater: If the Chinese govt announced that they were going to require that teachers be certified in their own countries and that they were going to quadruple the salary for foreign teachers, then yes they want qualified teachers. If they require teachers to be certified while keeping the salary at these low levels then that means they are trying to get rid of all teachers including certified teachers.
Whatever China's government decides I support their decision because it is their decision to make. But I will not play the fool for anyone (my country or yours), I can clearly see the motives so I will voice it. They will leave the back"pocket" open for schools to hire teachers illegally because there is too much money to be made . Students with money overwhelmingly want to study English and leave. And schools are not severely punished for hiring illegal teachers.
If it is easier and less costly to hire illegally then that is just what they will do.
ironman510:
I'm clapping my hands man, post is great, it makes a lot of sense
Englteachted:
Let me clarify something. China is trying to restrict legal teachers. There is a shortage of legal teachers in Qingdao and Beijing (I know this personally). The shortfall is filled by students and other non Z visa holders. Everyone knows this. The so-called crackdown is BS. This is to put foreigners in a position of fear, employers can do anything to them. Foreigners working illegally can't go to the govt for help.
This is a ridiculous question. YOU DO NOT NEED A TEFL CERTIFICATE TO TEACH IN CHINA! Is the OP possibly someone who operate a TEFL Training Center?
Hotwater:
Please enlighten us then on the exact requirements necessary to teach English in China legally......
ironman510:
Shenzhen's Labor department required to see our TEFL, TESOL or CELTA and our original Degree, not a copy before we got a new FEC book..
Englteachted:
Actually you are very wrong.It is required by law. But, since China is a corrupt country many schools just bribes someone to forge a degree or/and TEFL cert. You become an illegal teacher and your school essentially owns you. If you apply for a new job you run the risk of being rejected for your new visa. Because your old school would have already entered falsified information into the computer. When your school tries to apply for your visa it would never match and you could end up blacklisted.
When you see those ads saying "no degree / Tefl required", this is one of the ways they get around the requirement.
