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Q: The city you live in - why go there? why avoid it?
I think seeking a balanced view is usually the best policy, so i have a simple request - tell us why someone should visit or even live in the city you're currently in, and why they should avoid it like the plague? Pros and cons, basically. Keep it relatively short, please.
Suzhou's good
* The old town is nice to walk around, and not only the two touristic streets, but the whole blocks.
* The lakes and the parks, the bike lane, all those place to stroll and relax, with nice enough place to sit and enjoy a drink. Several places offers hours of walk in a nice surrounding (basically, each lake)
* Does not feels overly crowded, excellent infrastructure by China's standard.
* Generally sunny and never very cold
Suzhou's bad
* Summer is steamy hot, feels like you are a bao zi being cooked.
* Air pollution get worse every year. Pm2.5 AQI was around 150 this year, more like 200 this winter.
* If you have kids and want better than local public school, it's going to be 20K RMB/month
* No airport, you have to go to Shanghai for that. 30 mn by bullet train, with a direct line to Hongqiao airport. If you need to go to Pudong, you have to commute by subway (1h30, yaaaayy) or take a bus (also 1h30, but you are seating).
Strawberry66:
I have been to Suzhou.There is a only foreign resturant opened by an European on Ping Jiang roadThe street is nice full of the local food but not so many western resturants I can find for my ex who likes eatting western food more.I just saw place like Pizza huts stuffs in the commercial street close to PingJiang street.It is too Chinese for my taste there.Prefer living in Shanghai or HongKong.The thing I felt the special about Suzhou and I like is the chinese resturant will have the traditional musician playing those old style music.
DrMonkey:
Hey, there are a *lot* more places than Ping Jiang road in Suzhou :) There is a fairly good pizzeria owned by an Italian just next to the Li Gong Di walk around the Jing Li lake. There are also a few good options in Li Gong Di or next to it, being US, Korean, Japanese and Indian food. Time Square have some nice option as well. In the Suzhou SIP downtown, you have some nice Thai restaurants. Around Suzhou's university (the old, very nice campus), there's a good choice of bars.
ironman510:
Y20K a month for a good public school or gov school or international school? My GoD!
DrMonkey:
@ironman510 For a good international school, of course. There are a lot of expats on super expat package here : managers in factories from foreign companies, who come with there families. Yup, it's ridiculously expensive...
Good things about Shenzhen:
Nice weather year round, never freezing cold.
Close to Hong Kong.
Relatively clean air, many blue skies.
Nice beaches
Bad things about Shenzhen:
No history
Lots of expats
Strawberry66:
Shanghai has many expats with a long history but not close to Hongkong:(
ironman510:
History check: Shenzhen is 34 years old and was once a famous fishing village, now it's the second economic city next to Shanghai within the mainland.
Changshu good:
Close proximity to Suzhou/Nanjing/Shanghai
Few Expats.
"mountain" and lots of open space.
Lots of tea available.
Changshu bad:
No culture.
No nightlife.
Ugly women.
Unfriendly/parasitic locals.
Barely edible food.
Locals switch to the local dialect when they discover you understand Mandarin.
Useless taxi drivers.
Useless store clerks.
The "mountain" is just a hill with some trees on it.
Artificial nature.
Everything closes at 9 pm.
bill8899:
I only met the women I worked with in Changshu, and of course, they were all very beautiful!
Karamay, Xinjiang.
It's a good place, by Chinese standards. Lots of trees and flowers, and a canal running through the middle of it that has about 20 bridges over it, all different.
Traffic very orderly, by Chinese standards. But still no way the bastards will stop for pedestrians. They do park properly though.
Not too many people. Uyghir food. Uyghir culture (at the moment anyway). Wusu beer is pretty good.
Uyghir women have busts and bottoms.
Very far away, so travel isn't simple.
Not a lot to do other than play pool and drink beer.
The brand new library is massive; 5 storeys high and as big as the MCG. It has 40,000 books and not one of them is in English.
But if you've gotta be in China you may as well be here.
RandallFlagg:
"Uyghir women have busts and bottoms."
Heh. You're right The last college i worked at had a lot of Uighurs and i had some Uighur girls in my classes. Generally not great students but also generally more attractive than the Henanese women with their underdeveloped bodies and nervous jerky movements.
Pros of Foshan:
-Largest number of specialized markets in China, electronic, home ware, clothing, you can find everything.
-Clean air and clean city compared to other cities in the Pearl River Delta.
-Good city planning, good infrastructure, practical seems to prevail, no "fancy to impress foreign visitors but useless for the locals" things, many parks, greenery and many upper end residences, large avenues, there is some logic in the planning, design and architecture of the city, it's not as chaotic as what I have seen in the rest of China.
-The local government is very liberal by Chinese terms, it was the first and for many years the only one to hire foreigners at key decisional positions.
-Not too many expats, not too many peasants from other provinces.
-The old city still exists, and I mean real traditional Chinese buildings, not some fake shit rebuilt in the last 15 years like they did in many cities, pre-communist era, in good shape.
-Temperatures never drop below 20C.
Cons of Foshan:
-Local girls are... average looking, Cantonese you know.
-Shitty airport with no international flights, thanks Baiyun airport is not far.
-Most miserable CBD you will ever see for a city of this size, my district has more and taller highrises than the CBD.
mike695ca:
Traffic is great too. Its quiet. Close to GZ CBD yet much cheaper to live. People dont stare, even the farmers. Great food. This is depressing. I miss Foshan and ill move back the second I can.
RandallFlagg:
I'm planning to move to the south this year and your review of Foshan has put it on my consideration list. Thanks
Guangzhou:
Pros:
It's a good looking city. Good metro system, orderly roads and overall a pretty good place to live. Great food in the Arabic eateries.
Cons:
Too hot and humid in the summer. Metro too busy. Expensive.
Overall, I would say GZ is a good place to live. But I don't think it's the sort of place worth visiting as a tourist.
RandallFlagg:
Well i've been there twice as a tourist (going again in a few weeks) and i really enjoyed it - one of my favourite cities in China so far.
ScotsAlan:
Yup Ironman. There used to be lots of American couples adopting Chinese babies here because of that. I think the US consulate used to be in the White Swan Hotel.
I think Guangzhou was the biggest center for foreign adoptions of babies in the world at one time.
Harbin
Pro:
Nice summer
A big river with parks
Russian Architecture and culture
On the High-speed line to Beijing and Shanghai
Reasonable costs for a big city (8kuai taxi)
Russian girls
Cons:
Freezing winter
Traffic problems
Lack of western style bars, clubs, and restaurants
Stiggs:
There used to a great foreign hangout bar in Harbin, I think it was called The Box. Is it still around or did it get closed down?
rasklnik:
Box is there, went once, didn't see any foreigners...My gf doesn't let me out to bars any more.
Stiggs:
Guess they got rid of the foreign DJ or it got a bad rep for whatever reason and people stopped going then. It used to be quite popular.
rasklnik:
It had a very fu-er-dai vibe when I went, Bently parked outside, and russian-hooker/gf with fat chinese gangsters...
Stiggs:
Ah, well there lies the problem. Who wants to hang out with those a$$.....
Eorthisio:
What happened to that Box club is a recurring problem in China. At first expats find a nice place to hang out and give it an identity, then some wealthy local youths with no personality see this and take over the place with their arrogance "forcing" (in some way) all the regular foreign customers to find a new spot because no one wants to be around those obnoxious fuerdai. Finally with Chinese customers only the place loses most if not all of its uniqueness and attractiveness, at the end it becomes just another random place. Local Chinese are very good at trashing nice things.
Strawberry66:
I am interested in visiting Harbin as it has russian culture.When will be the good season to visit?I hate too cold and too hot.
ironman510:
I'd love to visit those big rivers you spoke of. (Typed of).
Chongqing.
Hot food, hot weather, hot tempered people.
I love the city and take every opportunity to visit it whenever possible.
royceH:
If only they could devise a way to cook their food without drowning it in oil times ten.
Same for Sichuan.
RandallFlagg:
Hot tempered - in a good or bad way? Could you give a little more detail on that?
gouxiong:
royceH, Eorthisio: I agree, there is too much oil and too much salt in Sichuanese dishes. But I think they still still taste great and much better than "Sichuan cousin" in other part of China. RandallFlagg: As per my opinion Chongqing people are very straight forward for Chinese standard. Like means like and dislike means dislike. And they do not hesitate to also let you know what's their real opinion. I personally like it. Also the people are generally very friendly and very positive. They work hard and they play hard - trying to enjoy their lifeas much as they can. But the problem is with language barrier. If you speak at least some Chinese so all is fine. If not so the expat community is not big and there are not that many people there who can speak English. Also trying to live a "Western life" in Chongqing is a bit hard ...It's kind of "real China" if you compare it to majority of coastal cities. But the development is tremendous and I think it's one of the China cities of the future.
Wuhan pros:
Great train links - Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, and Chengdu all now accessible by super high speed train.
Good amount of foreigners - Enough that I'm not all alone, but not too many
Lots of student - More students than any other city on Earth....... apparently
Dong Hu - A nice lake, the locals will tell you its the most beautiful lake in China, its not. But it is nice
Wuhan cons:
Massive sprawling spread out mess - Considering the population isn't that big (by Chinese standards) this place is huge.
Local food - Specialties are hot, dry noodles (fine in an emergency) and spicy, black duck neck. I am consistently told the duck neck is so great that people come from all over China to try it....... It's revolting
Lack of greenery - Permanently surrounded by grey
Toilets!! - Even the most up-market, new, places still expect you to squat.
Traffic - The worst city i've lived in in terms of traffic jams.
rasklnik:
You live in one of the hottest cities in China and didn't mention the weather?
estern:
You're right, it totally slipped my mind. I guess in the grips of winter when we are all wondering if we will ever be warm again, summer seems like an awfully long way off.
thefidu881:
Weather and pollution sucks...has the PM changed from 2.5 or is freezed at 2.5 since ages? Students who will rush into you to practice English even if you want to get a burger at KFC... How about the loud speakers on the go? Do the local people stare when you are accompanied by your Chinese gf or a girl? I was killed numerous times, fortunately their eyes happen to be not loaded with live rounds...
Guangzhou pros -
Great transport (Baiyun airport. Metro system. Good high speed train links)
Great selection of different foods from all over the world.
Still got some culture left & the locals are proud of their language & food.
Cosmopolitan by Chinese standards
A lot less spitting & street shitting compared to other cities
improving bar & craft beer scene
Mild winters though no heating!
2-3 hours driving can get you to HK, Macau, clean mountains, hot springs, rural areas with interesting villages.
Still got some nice old areas as a change from the modern CBD
Cons -
Traffic in the city is bad at times.
Too humid in the summer
Two languages to deal with!
Ridiculously expensive real estate - my choice would be to buy in Zhongshan, Foshan or Shunde but my wife is settled in GZ
Changchun pros -
low cost of living
good number of expats - enough thatt there are foreign bars and restaurants but not too many
lots of nice parks and green spaces
very pleasant in summer and fall
lots of universities
some interesting Japanese architecture from the occupation
subway under construction (probably will be finished just when I'm ready to leave)
cons -
frigid winters and the occasional sandstorm in spring
too many rude peasants
pollution is pretty bad but about average for Tier 2 cities (worse in winter)
traffic is bad
impossible to find a taxi during rush hour
Meishan, Sichuan. You haven't heard of it I'm sure; it's the smallest municipal city in Sichuan.
Typical pros:
Cheap and excellent food; a wide variety of vegetables and meats. You can get everything with chili here, so you better love chili.
Relatively clean, because it's in "protected landscape" Sichuan province.
It's sorta quiet on the streets, but you can still buy most of your basic needs here.
Since foreigners are more of a novelty, you get people inviting you for stuff and wanting to know you, superficially.
Despite standing out like a sore thumb, police and scammers haven't seriously targeted me. My wife went ballistic when she was charged 2kuai for duck eggs instead of the standard 1.5.
Bonus points if you're married with kids; people keep an eye out for you. They also keep close watch of all your movements, with all the positive and negative that brings.
Cons:
I managed to get a job with salary comparable to Chengdu jobs, but most other teachers here must make do for less. Old teachers who left for jobs in Chengdu, would jump at the prospect of my job being available, and return to Meishan in a heartbeat. Probably because of the pretty girls on the streets.
Food safety issues, as in the rest of China. I also believe that restaurant owners, street sellers, basically everybody, laces the food with addictive medicines. Some of the chili oil and other stuff just tastes too good, so it causes me to be suspicious.
Objectification (foreigners, women, waidiren, the poor, the ugly, non-Han, you name it) at a level that makes you question your assumptions about human nature.
You'll also meet few difference-makers or interesting people here. Nonconformity is like the sky is for fish; it's so far removed from their lives, they are completely ignorant of the concept.
No expat shops; few & expensive foreign products. My wife bought a box of italian cornflakes for 65 yuan (she got stickerprice discount).
The expat hangout is wherever you choose to hang out; you're one of the only expats. Since I don't hang out much, I miss out on all the free stuff.
Lost in translation. Alone in the world. Brave New World. Goliath among the Lilliputters.
Oh, and you shouldn't lose whatever goodwill you have by commenting on any bad behaviour. If you have a disagrement without a Chinese on your side, it can become you against the mob. No terrifying anecdote for me, but you can sense the nationalism in the atmosphere.
Beijing.
Pros:
Cons: Everything.
RandallFlagg:
Well, i did say keep it short, but still... there must be one thing you like about Beijing?
Mr_spoon:
Frankly, nostalgia aside, I can't think of a single reason to go back to Beijing.
Fuzhou.
Pros: Many tea shops w/ some of the best tea in China.
Cons: - Extreme ethnocentrism as evidenced by acts of hostility towards foreigners (including murder).
- Only a handful (literally) of Western restaurants and no expat bars.
- Air pollution is shockingly bad for a city in Fujian (due to unregulated factories).
- Expat network is virtually nonexistent and locals give you a death look.
- Most of the old city is rebuilt, very few original structures remain.
- Taxi drivers are miserable and deceitful.
Shenzhen.
Pros:
Open girls, Western & Chinese life mix, Ocean near, mountains and Hong Kong near by. Hong Kong airport is best for traveling because you'll save Y1000 or more on your plane tickets. No motor cycles (Unless HK guys sneak them in for the day.), No police 90% of the year to cause us any panic because nothing really bad happens here too often. New jobs open up every where all the time. Great new subway system thats improving as we speak (or type.). Its a flower growing city meaning buildings grow almost as fast as flowers here, so the city is very very new and updated in the main areas. Best place for business and side jobs, lots of rich families here to start business with. No people are in this city during holidays.
Cons:
High cost of rent. CBD Futian can cost Y4500 M2-65 to Y8000 M2-83-103 monthly, OCT Nanshan Y6000 to Y18,000. Longgang & BaoAn Y1500 Y6000 (But far from where most guys work and make the most money, maybe you'll need an hour by subway to get to work. Parking sucks at times after 6:PM if you drive a car like me and a few others here. Hong Kong guys drive like theres no law, so careful if you see a car with a yellow plate lol. Unsafe food outside, No heaters at work or at schools during winter (05-10c), too many fake goods going around. (Always go to Hong Kong to buy things.)
Suzhou, Part Deux!
Pros: Not very cold, live bands in SIP, choice of food, pollution not so bad for China, parks and touristy things if yer into that, fast subway, probably good places for long bike rides maybe ... other stuff ...
I don't know. Only got here this month.
Cons: Food costs a little more than other places, but not much more. Rent is probably high, RE prices higher. KFC is too far from me. Can't find a bike or ebike to buy around here. Where is the Giant store? Anyone? Errr ... Other stuff ...
DrMonkey:
Try the Auchan close to the SIP downtown, about 15 mn walk from Jinhi Hu and the Samsung factory. The Decathlon shop in the mall have a choice of bikes, from simple to high-end ones, all with good quality. Inside Auchan itself, you will have also a good selection of bikes. Got a Giant bike, very happy with it.
Lianyungang, Jiangsu Province (Ganyu and Xinpu)
Pros: Hospitality, Hospitality, Hospitality...especially in Ganyu. Fresh seafood (coastal seaside towns), The school was great (10 days on/4 days off), Clean(er) air, feeling of old China still exists.
Cons: Not much to see and do. But, Shandong Province is nearby and you do have the beaches. Monkey Mountain from the Chinese novel Journey to the West. Fewer western restaurants and shopping available, air quality when they burn the fields in the fall, landscape is largely uninteresting (farmland: think of Kansas near the sea). Limited high speed train and air services from this part of China.
Shangrao, Jiangxi Province (my current location)
Pros: If you like hiking, rivers and forested locations, this is a great location. High speed trains make traveling easy here. Shanghai and other large cities are only a few hours by train. A larger city with a small town feel. Good eats and good local transportation services. Air quality is respectable.
Cons: Few English speaking Chinese people here so lonliness can set in. The education quality is lower than other places I have been. It is a migrant city. So, the people are less friendly here than in Lianyungang. Very few western places to shop and eat. Taoboa is my best friend. Many of the traditions and cultural things from Lianyungang are missing here (funeral processions and festivals).
