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Q: Cultural differences between foreigners in China
Seems foreigners can't get along here lately. I'm tired of reading the insults. is this cultural differences or just personal? Because it reads personal. Different views or just difficult people? I know some don't like what I post, but I'm rarely serious. Can't we just get along and have fun guys? So whats the problem, bad liquour?
Well i'm drinking Changchang Brandy, and that is goood liquor. As for foreigners on this forum getting along or not, i'm willing to get along with anybody, even you, you low-life Canadian bastard. Not that i'm against Canadians or anything, I just think they are all bastards. But don't get me wrong, I love bastards. I think the French are frog eating bastards, the Chinese are slant-eyed bastards, the Spanish are bull-buggering bastards, Africans are all black bastards, Americans are arrogant bastards, the British are stuck-up bastards, Turks are.........actually very nice, but Puerto Ricans, ohhh, now they're the worst, and Argentineans, ohh they're even worse than the worst.........but now who have I forgotten? Yep, anybody from the Middle East, all of the South Americans, Asia, Europe, and worst of all, those f***king penguins up in Antartica, or down in the South Pole, or wherever those little motherf**kers live. Yep, you're all a bunch of bastards.
Fortunately I am perfect in every way. I mean a real saint. So you can all copy me.
giadrosich:
"Excuse me, bartender, I'll have what he's having, on the rocks!"
TedDBayer:
I've always been a two fisted drinker, beer and shots, really enjoying Tequila lately. BTW Marty it wasn't your sister I tagged, it was your momma.
mArtiAn:
My momma? My MOMMA!? Shame on you Teddybear, you gonna smoke a turd in Hell for that one.
mike168229:
Erm, I think Antarctica and the South Pole are the same place. Just sayin'.
Thank you for making this post, it gives me an opportunity to explain some things about myself and some of my posts. One of the problems with forums is it is natural to 'hear' what the other posters think and in so doing it is equally natural to insert whatever emotion (including no emotion) into that listening that you imagine the poster is using, often this is erroneous.
1. I very rarely get angry online, and almost never post when angry.
2. I am often sarcastic.
3. I often attempt humour, (and equally often probably fail).
4. I am never calmer than when someone has pissed me off. If you meet me and I'm, ranting then I probably quite like you, if I go quiet, you may well be in trouble, (of course I may also just be passing wind).
Things that do piss me off online.
1. Racism. (product of a small mind and lack of education or fear).
2. Sweeping generalisations. (Just because some do it does NOT mean everyone does it).
3. Assuming you are in the majority. (A common sign of mild mental disorder), you MAY be right, but you cannot assume you are in the majority.
4. Attacking our hosts. I am British and in Britain, (much to our shame) there is growing rampant racism, one of the excuses these racists use is a lack of integration on part of some immigrant communities, I therefore am very keen not to do that myself now that I'm an immigrant, and I feel others that decide not to integrate are making my life more difficult than it needs to be.
Apart from that, 'can we have fun' of course we can and if anyone makes 'fun' posts I will happily contribute so far as my wit and sense of humour allow, it's just that I don't find China bashing and racism funny.
one of the main things i've noticed is when people can't conjure up a logical argument, they simply resort to calling you racist. are HK people racist because they can not accept the poor behavior of their mainland counter parts?
some people are here to spread the idea "say nothing negative about china" i say negative things about my own country . why can't i say something negative about china?
a few months ago many people died in a shooting incident. i said america needs to change their gun laws. some people agree some people disagree.
i'm gonna use another example. i think canadians are too friendly. they should really be more like americans. no one will call me a racist. some will agree , some will disagree. and they will present arguments supporting their point.
but if after seeing 2 deadly accidents in a span of 2 days, i say china needs to get serious about traffic safety. i am branded a racist for acknowledge something wrong in china. that is being a bad guest. if you invite me over for dinner and i see your kitchen is on fire i am going to be a rude guest and tell you your kitchen is on fire.
Hugh.G.Rection:
One thing I've noticed is when some people cannot muster a cogent counter argument they resort to thumbs downing all the posters post regardless of relevance.
A childish tactic I won't resort to.
I don't counter racist comments because (as you have proven here) you lack the ability to see them as racist and you lack the ability to imagine the damage they do to the immigrant community we both are part of.
crimochina:
wait a minute i just realized something. while they spread the idea say nothing bad about china they continue to levy negative comments at usa, even against people who aren't even american
mArtiAn:
Crimo, I don't take offense at you pointing out genuine problems that need to be addressed, and I certainly wouldn't complain if you said that driving laws need to be enforced more strictly, that couldn't be more true, it is only when you say such things as i've heard you say like "China is a country of a billion thieves, liars and cheats" that I speak up, because that is a direct attack on my Chinese wife and son. Surely you can understand that. Also, when I read something like you wrote yesterday, which started "i went out today as i often do. into the abyss of spit , shit and piss" and then went on to describe some apocalyptic sea of excrement and decay in which parents bathed their young in sewage (well ok, that's an exaggeration, but not a large one) it honestly doesn't resemble the world outside my window. Where I live I see someone spit maybe once a week, in over two years i've seen someone allow their child to piss in the street only a few times, and i've never seen anyone shit or vomit anywhere. I promise. I am not trying to make China out to be perfect, not by any stretch of the imagination, but it does seem you are blinkered to anything but a very narrow and negative view of a country full of.....just normal people. The post you made yesterday seemed loaded with vitriol, not genuine observation. I don't think the Chinese visitors to this site deserve such an attack.
Also, regarding your statement about us three (glad you seem to be recognizing it's not all just one poster now) attacking America in the same way we feel you do China, I will say this: Loke, yes, i've said it to him a number of times, he makes open attacks on America. Hugh, i'm not aware of doing any such thing. And as for myself, if you can find one statement i've made about the states that isn't immediately followed by an equally damning statement about my own country, I will hold my hands up and apologize. Oh, the 9/11 one. Ok, I apologize for that, it's just my opinion. 7/7 too. Haha, so if you can find any 'other' statement, etc, etc, yeh, i'll put my hand up and apologize for it.
Peace.
I'm so sick of the recent developments here where anything other than smiley positive stuff is viciously attacked - I'm sick of the patronising and blinkered attitudes I find here now and pretty much sick of the site consequently.
Constant flame wars aren't fun - and starting them is not 'balance', Loke, Hugh and Martian, you don't bring balance; you bring vitriol.
Hugh.G.Rection:
Miss A, you're welcome to you point. However, would you please explain then, how you think Crimo, Nevermind, and LAR (to name but three) do 'bring balance' as you put it. Or do you think that people should just be free to post whatever they wish, regardless of truth, without anyone challenging them?
Perhaps I should just start posting a disclaimer, pointing out that such posts are NOT the majority opinion and please don't tar all foreigners with the same brush?
thedude:
Finally someone had the wherewithal (I wanted to say balls...sorry MissA) to state the obvious.
This trio may have some interesting things to say occasionally but this forum has become a shitshow ever since they showed up.
This is why my posting has been drastically reduced.
Coincidence? Have you noticed Happy has all but vanished? I wonder why?
MissA:
Oh, I'm welcome to my opinion? Thank you, thank you, thank you, that' so kind, because you do seem to believe that a lot of people here are not entitled to their opinions simply because you don't agree with them.
Yes LAR seems to have a pretty bad time in China. I can understand his frustration - a lot of what he complains about also happened to me in China, I was cheated and lied to on a pretty epic scale.
I'm sure nevermind and Crimo are big boys who can defend themselves, but I've never seen either of them as permanently negative. You permanently attack them, and therefore draw a response, but that's not the same thing.
As I said, I'm sick of the flame wars which started when you lot arrived.
MissA:
Thanks dude - yes, a lot of people whose posts I used to look out for have all but disappeared in the last few weeks.
Hugh.G.Rection:
Miss A, I will make this my last reply as I honestly don't want to turn this into another flame war.
However, I am totally dumbfounded by your retort:
"but I've never seen either of them as permanently negative."
Can you point me to one single post of theirs that is positive? All they appear to do is make sweeping generalisations about China or the Chinese people. I respond usually to point out that they ARE sweeping generalisations which are almost always logically indefensible.
Yes SOME Chinese cheat, yes SOME Chinese use the streets as toilets, yes SOME Chinese are rude and ignorant but if you were to listen to many on here it is absolutely 100% of them 100% of the time and that is patently false. If I said ALL Australians, or Americans or Canadians were Nazis or racists or bigots or (god forbid) like Crimo, that would be equally wrong.
I just try to point out these errors when I see them. Obviously I am not doing very well, but that isn't going to stop me trying.
crimochina:
thedude missa. do you noticed when they showed up. after matty got busted. and notice how they claim to be buddies, to cover the constant thumbs uping they give each other. martian asked the admin to verify the ip thing so as to make sure whatever he didn't do before is now working.
mArtiAn:
Missa, please tell me, what do you expect? My wife is Chinese. My nine month old son is half Chinese. Half the time I hear these daftly absurd blanket statements and ignore them, but when people like Crimo say things like "This is a country of a billion liars, cheats and thieves" he is attacking my family. Do you really 'not' understand why I would choose to speak up against someone like that?
The honest and ironic truth is I only come on here to be friendly. That is my only wish and intention. I like to make jokes and I like the sense of community a forum such as this offers, particularly on a week like this when my family are away. But it seems to me that part of what gels that community is the existence of a common enemy, it's an old trick often used by governments to control their people, and in this instance that common enemy is the nation of China. I'm not suggesting everybody comes on here hating China, i'm just saying that when someone makes an unfavourable remark about its people, to speak against it is to speak against the community as a whole.
Missa, I said to Loke on a PM yesterday, i'm tired and bored of having the same, lame arguments. The truth is I expect you'll see less of my complaints. And i'm also reminded of something that Guilin Raf said, right back when I first joined this site under the name of Gaohao, and that was that the process of venting is a necessary one, so maybe I should just shut up and let it happen. But it still upsets me how little everyone is concerned over such vitriolic statements as Crimo or Lar are prone to make, when there are a number of Chinese users of this site standing in the room so to speak.
Anyway, despite what you may think, I don't come here looking for a fight. Haha, I think Loke does, he seems to really enjoy it, but i'm certain he'd prefer it if he didn't have to. Hugh is ex-army so he's no stranger to a scuffle. Me, i'm just a daft hippy. Peace.
crimochina:
hugh g "Perhaps I should just start posting a disclaimer, pointing out that such posts are NOT the majority opinion and please don't tar all foreigners with the same brush?"
this is what hugh g said. so this begs the question. do you think chinese people are all stupid? do you think all chinese people are so simple minded they can't tell the difference between 1 persons opinion and the opinion of every single person in that country? who is the racist?
mArtiAn:
Oop, I see we're back to being one multiple personality again! Jeez, Lennon was right, you can't reason with souffle.
crimochina:
marty if you are going to quote me quote me right. i said scam artists not thieves. and the fact that there are 1.5 billion people in china. i do believe 2/3 of the people are scam artist, liars and cheaters. based on my experiences. why not challenge my on my opinion. i gave an speech assignment to my class (first time i did this) 80% of the students out of 300 students cheated. the following semester i said if they cheat they will not get any credit that number came down to 60%. that along with my experience dealing with everyday people and dating helped formed my opinion.
hugh g: i asked a question a while back about people in nanning being so damn good. i always praise chinas public transit system. i knock anyone whining and complaining about racism because chinese people themselves are the biggest victims of discrimination.
yes i do generalize i posted this question "why do parents torture their kids?" see to a non native speaker they will think i mean 100% of parents. but to a native speaker they understand that generalizations are just that. general! here is the definition to help you "a statement about all the members of a group that may be true in some or many situations but is not true in every case" (longman) you see a generalization does not mean everyone (100%) as you say
loke/hug/mart: next time claim to be kiwis we don't have any of them here. or russian. claim to be russian
mArtiAn:
Haha, I claim to be from north London. Kind of miss it right now. Tell you what though, anytime you want my qq number you can prepare a bunch of questions about my home town and the world I grew up in and fire them at me quick-time. Might be fun. Peace.
The obligatory British 'America Haters' get old fast. Hey, sorry your government does whatever we tell them. Sorry we have Hollywood. Gee, I'm sorry we seem more attractive than youall. Get over it. Focus on you and your considerable personal value and get on with your life. Otherwise your posts read like a study in co-dependence of the pathetic self-destructive type.
crimochina:
bill: they are really chinese not really british which is exactly why they can't make any real comments about life in the uk. unless it is on google
mArtiAn:
Oh, we're NOT one personality again. Well that's a relief. Still all Chinese though I see. Oklee-doklee.
Hugh.G.Rection:
OK then Crimo a challenge to you.
IM me and I'll give you my FB link, you can message me there and I'll call you some foul names, what is more I'll link to what I say here. Further you can message (on FB) my friends to confirm I'm not Chinese.
Good enough for you?
But of course you won't respond because you know that'll prove your half assed idiotic theories wrong and that'll mean you will have to admit you were wrong, and your criminally high opinion of yourself won't allow you to do that.
crimochina:
hugh it is too easy to fake things . you live in china haven't you picked up on this.
bill8899:
@Crimo - oh, ummm I guess that's one way for me to find out! Thanks.
I'm a little embarrassed now.
BTW, why does Flaccid have a Youge Boner for you? He can't find a girlfriend in China?
I have been having mixed emotions when logging on lately. Sometimes I just dont. I used to enjoy the give and take, the funny remarks and yes, to be able to ask a question here or make an observation without the fear of being called a racist. Even the chance to vent seems to no longer be an option.
And, even when the poster is not American or the question is not about the US, somehow we end up reading how f*cked up it is in America.
i really wish we could again, like Ted D said above, have fun and get along like we used to.
thedude:
You just summed up exactly what I have been feeling here for a while now.
mArtiAn:
I think maybe i'm going to drop my guns and do just that GR. I remember you telling me (on my Gaohao account) about your growing up and not sure who to hate because, if I remember rightly, you are of mixed race (excuse me if i'm remembering wrongly) and the need to vent as not doing so can lead to genuine racism developing inside oneself. I have thought about that lately and seriously think maybe I should just shut the f**k up, lighten up, and get on with making my bad jokes. Really I have.
As for taking cracks at the states, yeh, maybe i've done as much sometimes. Generally in the same sentence as making one about my own country but that too is getting old.
Hmm.
GuilinRaf:
I have no problem when the US is called out for misbehavior, and if someone from the States makes an asinine remark, then no problem. It is just tiresome when the US has nothing to do with theopic or the poster or the question, now that gets annoying.
crimochina:
i honestly think that is what they are trying to do, drive people away from this site and shut it down. remember this really started with matty, making mass silly posts. and don't forget hackers would attack the site and make it virtually unusable. for some strange reason the big govt is afraid of this little forum.
GuilinRaf:
For me, however, what I really dislike it is the mistreatment of each other. That bugs me much more than the "US-bashing".
mArtiAn:
It bugs me too Raf, a number of people who come to this site are Chinese and I feel personally embarrassed by some of the vitriolic (haha, just learnt what that word means, can't stop using it) comments made here. And Crimo, jeez, you're a bigger conspiracy theorist than me. I do think my computer is hacked when I come to this site though. Happens quite a bit.
giadrosich:
This site is supposed to be about Chinese related questions. And yet, there is a new user who is asking specific questions about non-related topics:
What's up with that?
Dude:
I share Ted and Guilin Raf feelings 100 %. It used to be fun, made some good friendships, helped others. Now days I refrain from posting many times, wont reply to comments, because all I get back is a broadside. Black humor?, maybe so. But I do not enjoy it.
And The Cat was keeping us in line, the now Dog seems to be iu the dog house chewing bones all the time. So, a lot of the fun has gone to hell, and I do seldom come in and visti now days. A pity, but true.
GuilinRaf:
I know what you mean! I could not believe it when you of all people got slammed! You have always been the voice of reason, called a spade a spade be it here in China or back home, and even when you disagreed with someone, you have always done so respectfully without any "vitrol" (funny, now I am the one who cannot get this word out of my head).
My hope is that with this thread, maybe we can work it out of our systems and all agree to meet each other halfway? We have so many people here from all over the world, different faiths,theists, humanists, etc. that this really should be (again) a really neat place to hang out and exchange ideas, questions and experiences.
mArtiAn:
Well if it's me who's ever broadsided you, I apologize. In fact I don't know if you remember but I even posted an official apology to a number of users here, including you, because I have made the mistake at times of being unnecessarily rude in the past. It was and still is an apology honestly meant, though I have to say I was disappointed by how few people had the good grace to accept it. Haha, I think it was only one person in fact. Anyway, I meant it.
Okay. I figure I'll add my "two cents worth (to use an American colloquialism)."
I've been on this site for long enough to see a general pattern of disintegration, both in content and tone. As I see it, it is mostly in the name of "fair play," and "equal time." But, as I mentioned a long time ago, it is not someones "duty," if someone else is complaining about something here in China, to "set them straight." I would like to think that we are all adults, but lately, I've had my doubts. Testosterone will do strange things to a man's mind. I've talked with some of you privately about this issue, so I know where some of you are "coming from." I have no problem with anyone on this site. If I did, I just wouldn't ever answer your question or comment on anything you ever said. Very easy solution. It's called, "ignoring." Something adults do all the time. Thank God for the ladies who visit here. More often than not, they provide a pleasant opinion.
Personally, I don't really care if you say something negative about China, the U.S., Great Britain, Swaziland, or, my Mama. But, there are way too many people here taking way too many things way too seriously. What starts as disagreement turns into a virtual fist fight. If you want to generalize, do so. If you want to be specific, do so. Instead of jumping to conclusions, how about this: those who read the question, try practicing a little bit of thinking skills and try to see "beyond the question." You have a brain. Perhaps it's time to get those neurons moving and exercise your intelligence.
I don't participate in a lot of the "chatter" anymore because I'm pretty much in the middle, both in my approach, and my conclusions. And when I do post, it is rarely a serious answer anymore, but a bit of imaginative fluff to practice my writing. The reason is two-fold. Firstly, because most have forgotten that this is a Q&A forum, and before you know it, the relevance, in relation to the question asked, has gone out the window, and we are arguing about how to invent the wheel all over again. The second reason is because, in the long run, it really doesn't matter. Guess what?! China sucks! Guess what? America sucks! Guess what? Every place sucks! But, you know what? Next year, I will choose to move back to America. Know why? Because I think it sucks less than anywhere else, and, that is where my Chinese Bride wants to live. Don't like my opinion? Grow up.
Everyone. Just, grow up. That being said, if I "yank your chain" in the future, it's because I like to do so. See...I need to grow up, also.
Now, I don't care what your nationality is, who you want to be as opposed to who you are, what color you are, what sex you are or prefer to be, who you like to sleep with, what your occupation is; whether you're slim, frisky, lanky, fat, robust, ugly, buoyant, obese, charming, lithe, gangly, astute, obtuse, amazingly attractive, limber, bald, hairy, a jerk, a gent, a genius, or a stark, raving lunatic...just answer the damn question and leave your drama at home.
Sheesh...by what has gone on here lately, you would think we were all aspiring theater majors.
I'm done.
I am also having doubts about posting here these days. The fun is sort of gone. A lot of people here were childish whiners from time to time, but now it has changed. There are more personal attacks, which has changed the mood of this forum. Yes, there are some people who are usually negative. The people who write balanced and appropriate responses have backed off.
Right then,
I've been reading this site for the last 6 years and quite honestly I'm done with it.
Many of the posts and comments spew with bile and there has definately been a sea change in the type of comments and articles.
I've been in China since 2001 and as a long term ex-pat here many of the negative comments about China are deeply childish and insulting.
As a human being many of the comments are deeply racist.
As a woman many of the comments are at best chauvinistic and at worst violently disturbed.
Sweeping generalistaions are mindless, ill thought through and generally insulting.
There has also been an increase in the hangbag throwing between different expat cultures. Newsflash: America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK all have different cultures and histories. Current events are therefore perceived differently.
There is also a massive gulf on here between the long-timers here who have grown with China, have time, friends and family invested here and new arrivals. The county you're arriving in is not the country we came to so we already have different perspectives.
Complaints are being made that "it's not fun to post here anymore" well if posting involves being derogatory about a nation, a sex or a group of people. Wicked, personally I'm glad that it's not fun.
mArtiAn:
I agree with you entirely, why didn't you speak up earlier? Sounds like you've got plenty to say. I say stick around and go do that voodoo that you do so well voodoohoodoo.
Hugh.G.Rection:
I agree wholeheartedly with what you post, and would urge you to stay and point out when posters are making such posts, (as indeed I intend to).
I must though add, your post would have more weight if it wasn't your first post. I am sure you must have posted before, if for no other reason than to come to the (accurate) conclusions you have. So if you're leaving, why do so under a new handle?
You wouldn't perhaps be one of the 'usual suspects' making a spoof post would you? 
giadrosich:
Okay, so you won't be "missed." Rude? Probably, but if you have nothing more to contribute as a parting shot, c'ya.
vodoohoodoo:
Thank you giadrosich for so beautifully emphasising my point about the value of multiple posts in this meritocracy and illustrating why I've never felt the need to post before.
Hello both,
I've not posted before simply because I'm a private person. I posted now because I've just had enough of the codswallop that's been put up in the last few months. It's a brilliant, though not accurate, presumption that only people who post actually read this site!
If posting a zillion posts on this ridiculous little meritocracy means that as a "shifu" words of hate have more weight than a rational little "peasant" then that also exposes the mentality of many on this forum.
I'm certainly not one of the "usual suspects" I'm a woman, a teacher and a mum who's seen how much the expat community has changed in China and can't be doing with these bubbling undercurrents of hatred, it's time I spoke.
I can't be arsed with all this long handled gardening implement ballsacks.
Voodoo
I've been in this forum for three months now and I think there is a constant fight among some members of this forum, i won't say whom they are but all I can say is that we all should learn and internalize this golden rule DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WILL LIKE OTHERS TO DO UNTO YOU, love others as you will like others to love you,offend others as you will like others to offend you,critizise,hate,discriminate,receive,help,support,understand,care,value and respect others as you will like others to do all these to you,peace to everyone.
Yes Ted, it IS personal and it NEEDS TO STOP! :( I can't be any clearer than that.
The viciousness of this site is nothing new; I absented myself from this site for almost 6 - 7 months because of a little coterie of venom-spewing posters. Some have left; a few others, I note, remain. In the end, I simply don't care. I will post whatever I wish to post in a civilized manner and ignore the rants of those who wish to rant. In the end, it really matters so little -- why should anyone work himself or herself up over the anonymous postings of a drunken or drug-infested or simply crazed wannabee...it's not worth it. I am going to contribute what I wish to contribute and just walk right past the out-of-line remarks.
Indeed, during my absence, I do notice that the site has really, really gone downhill -- lamentably so. On Dave's for example or on Raoul's, or ESL teachers board, these way-over-the-top remarks simply wouldn't be permitted. The Admin has a long way to go to bring order back to this Board.
Hugh.G.Rection:
I totally respect your views, and largely agree. The only thing I disagree with is your inferred suggestion that the moderator should be more active. Personally I think that the more outrageous posts should be left for a while as they only shame the poster.
Of course those who make such posts for effect will enjoy such attention and then I agree it is tempting to think that the moderator may need to take action, but I am a firm believer in free speech and principles have a price.
That is why, when I see outrageous, racist, or overly generalising posts I comment on it, not only because I disagree with them, but because I believe they should be left unmoderated and if they are left unmoderated and unchallenged it can be assumed everyone here agrees with them.
kchur:
Well said, old chap. I myself was thinking of making an alternative account called the pro-981.
Pip pip!
