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Posts: 55

Governor

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Q: Did anyone see the BBC documentary where Chinese teachers try to teach British kids?

Seems like that Chinese teachers only want their kids to pass the exams where as English teachers actually teach kids to become adults and How to think.

8 years 33 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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Emperor

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I don't disagree with what's been said above - especially about discipline, However... if you're a GOOD student in the UK (or other parts of the world), and you want to learn (something which often tends to happen in older school years), then your options for learning REAL knowledge, and really going somewhere with it, are greatly improved.

 

This begs a question - do ALL students need to do equally well in ALL subjects (or, for that matter, any subject?)

 

China has this huge problem of pressuring kids (from a young age) into going university, and if you don't, you're a loser. While, in many other countries, while there is an expectation from a young age that university is going to be an option, if you don't make it, there are SO many other options available (if one chooses to take them). We have WELL-TRAINED plumbers, builders, electricians, mechanics, etc etc etc.. something China sorely lacks!

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8 years 33 weeks ago
 
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Posts: 860

Shifu

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I'm British and I was embarrassed. The kids acted like little prats, disrupting the teacher at every opportunity, giving their friends little gay smiles whenever they did something naughty. Discipline has completely gone in British schools. I used to do naughty things at school, but I was scared of openly challenging the teacher. They have no fear of what will happen to them whatsoever. It is unsurprising that the Chinese teachers found it difficult to cope.  The Chinese teacher was spot when she said "In China you do not need classroom management skills, in the uk they need to be very good to have a chance".  I don't expect kids to be angels  all the time,  but it is impossible to teach in uk classrooms, simply because a few students won't let you. Rather than separate and punish them, spineless headmasters will blame the teachers management. This is what occurred in this program. Five kids had no interest in being taught, so they made certain nobody else could be either. 

 

Overall the Chinese classes were quite good. Some of the children liked being lectured. Learning by rote drilled things into them. Unfortunately it is the only effective way of learning some things.

 

The problems with the Chinese teacher's lessons are numerous.  These problems tend to be the opposite of our problems in teaching. Overdoing learning by rote and lecturing, meant some of the lessons were not engaging. The kids revised scientific theories, without seeing them properly put in practice. They were never invited to ask questions, or discuss problems they were having. Kids who were not clever, were left behind. The 12 hour schoolday with early starts is just stupid. 

 

The chinese need to change their lessons so that they involve more abstract thinking, problem solving ect, and are better presented. The Chinese kids are wicked smart, but are not well rounded individuals. Chinese universities churn out inferior graduates. Western countries trying to employ local Chinese have found this. 

 

We need to change our classroom environment, so it is more competitive, more disciplined and leads to better scores in international testing. In short we need our kids to be smarter and have better knowledge.

 

it is easier to fix Chinese problems than it is to fix British/ western problems(apart from Nordic countries). We should have reason to be scared. We lose our advantage intechnical innovation, we lose everything. International maths testing has long thought to be an indicator of the potential of our children. 

 

On wechat chinese people are passing around a link to the bbc news story. The story is about students claiming that a national maths test was too hard. They then added the maths paper to the link so all Chinese people can see it. They were laughing at how easy it was. Laughing. The uk lowered the pass mark to 35 percent. 

 

 

Burak43:

"it is easier to fix Chinese problems than it is to fix British/ western problems"

 

Please explain.

8 years 33 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

Same with American schools, the supreme court and fear of lawsuits have made it impossible for schools to discipline students for disruptive behaviors.

8 years 33 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

I'm just going to suggest, like most TV, that perhaps they showed the most sensationalised bits?? Rather than the most typical?

 

Hard to say though...

8 years 33 weeks ago
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8 years 33 weeks ago
 
Posts: 3269

Emperor

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Never saw the documentary, but I can guess what transpired. Teachers in Europe are unable to discipline children. The punishments for crossing the line are severe for the teacher, while the pupils are free to provoke them over and over again.

Rather than broadening discipline methods, the schools just chicken out and let the market handle it. Private schools can make demands and let the parents apply pressure if they want their kid to remain at the school, and most kids in public schools must suffer unproductive lessons with disruptive kids who go unchecked.

But don't think this is something cultural. Anyone who has taught Chinese private schools in small cities will encounter the same disruptive kids, and staff who are too frightened to discipline properly because they want tuition paid. The only difference is that profit rather than legal punishments de-incentivise educators from caring about discipline.

Some of those antisocial kids learn that being confrontational gives them power. I did security in a youth care center, and these kids would literally threaten me with their lawyer, who would be eager to assist them with any legal issue (paid by gov't subsidy). They were protected from any repercussions while everyone around them was at risk, and they knew it.

Children are still learning how rules work in society, and without a clear system with consequences for misbehaviour, they will learn the wrong things. If this phenomenon is left unchecked, China and Europe will eventually end up with the same kids: Cowardly bullies, who cheat and copy, seek out groups and abuse power, ignore the rules and retaliate when anyone points out their transgressions. Counsilors need to be employed who are specialized in dealing with disruptive kids, and unearthing the core of their motivations. Counseling sessions should be made mandatory for these kids, on top of their school time, with absence leading to expulsion. It's a form of "time out" they should respond to.

Pupils' rights are protected now, but there should be more regard for the safety and ability of the teacher to create discipline. Camera surveillance in classrooms should include audio, so that serious & continuous class disruption can be reported after just a few days. This prevents the teacher from having to employ their own recording devices to protect themselves. Camera recordings will only be relevant when there is a disruption, and will protect both the pupils and the teacher IF IMPLEMENTED PROPERLY. That's a big IF, unfortunately.

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8 years 33 weeks ago
 
Posts: 7715

Emperor

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I don't disagree with what's been said above - especially about discipline, However... if you're a GOOD student in the UK (or other parts of the world), and you want to learn (something which often tends to happen in older school years), then your options for learning REAL knowledge, and really going somewhere with it, are greatly improved.

 

This begs a question - do ALL students need to do equally well in ALL subjects (or, for that matter, any subject?)

 

China has this huge problem of pressuring kids (from a young age) into going university, and if you don't, you're a loser. While, in many other countries, while there is an expectation from a young age that university is going to be an option, if you don't make it, there are SO many other options available (if one chooses to take them). We have WELL-TRAINED plumbers, builders, electricians, mechanics, etc etc etc.. something China sorely lacks!

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8 years 33 weeks ago
 
Posts: 36

Governor

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I am British as well, and I think we need to take documentaries (or reality TV shows, as this is) with a pinch of skepticism. We all know that children may act up, if there are cameras in the room. That being said, it was not that bad. Children in China can be just as bad. My friend is a teacher here in China, and he said that there are some teachers that the Children have no respect for, and they will act up. On top of this, the children become a bit zombie like as they get older, and have more pressure being put on them. My only experience with Chinese children is with friends of the family. One had just finished her gaokao, and got good marks in Maths and English, but could not have a simple conversation with me, or understand 

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8 years 33 weeks ago
 
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