By continuing you agree to eChinacities's Privacy Policy .
Sign up with Google
Sign up with Facebook
Q: Did you discuss Occupy with any mainlanders?
Did you get anywhere other than the usual deer in headlights ?
Mainlander "why would we protest out leaders?"
You "because you also want to live, work, study, shop in HK, so you are saying HK is better"
Mainlander "no, China is great"
You "then why don't you try to make it just as great as HK?"
Mainlander "it is not possible with so many people"
...
...
...
Sigh.
i think i offended my students when i said if hong kong becomes like china, where will your corrupt leaders hide and smuggle their money out of china, apparently they never thought about that, especially since every student i have is from a wealthy family and half admitted they have accounts in hong kong, imagine that,
they also did not realize about 40 major companies have moved to singapore in the last 2 years from hong kong, the smart rich always get out when the shit hits the fan.
the accounting firms kissing the ass of the ccp to stay in good graces will be fighting over table scraps when all the capital investment leaves, china wanted hong kong to be a 2nd tier city, looks they will get their wish.
explaining how a great city became nothing under the ccp will be a great propaganda fiction for the textbooks for the next half a century, cant wait for the movie.
icnif77:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/30/china-hong-kong-future-protesters-cry-democracy
Read-d-d this! Repost from Phil's HK thread.
Much has changed since 1997. The Chinese economy has grown many times, the standard of living of the Chinese likewise. If you want to access the Chinese market nowadays, why move to Hong Kong when you can go straight to Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chengdu and a host of other major cities? Hong Kong has lost its role as the gateway to China. Where previously Hong Kong was China’s unrivalled financial centre, now it is increasingly dwarfed by Shanghai. Until recently, Hong Kong was by far China’s largest port: now it has been surpassed by Shanghai and Shenzhen, and Guangzhou will shortly overtake it.
ambivalentmace:
having any trust in shanghai for stock offerings does not exist, so the financial centre they think is in china is really just china blowing their horn for their benefit, nobody trusts china with a stock market, even general motors with billions invested is moving the big bosses to singapore, what you read in the papers is not the real business reality.
icnif77:
'HK can't exist without China' is the gist of this article. That's the reason 1/2 of the HK residents oppose students protest.
How can I know, papers are telling truth? Of course, you read between the lines, but HK is China.
On the other thread last week, my mood/comment was: 'we're pissing against the wind here...', and I still think so. Where are the posters with Qs 'will UK and USA move, if HK get crushed?'. It won't happened, but in case it would, who can move more than 2 fingers against China? In their pockets?
Add-it: trust in Shanghai's market, clean environment, respect to Law, traffic, behaviour of Chinese and such, we're keep slugging here are 'short term weaknesses', what they can fix it quickly, if they desire. IMO. How can you trust FED&US Stocks Exchange, if 'our' West is much different than China is?
Scandinavian:
of course HK can exist without China. As soon as they get a decent supply chain of things they are getting from China today, all will be well. Hong Kong is not an economy based on production (even though there are people working on reviving that) but based on knowledge, just as many smaller 1st world countries.
Hong Kong would thrive on its own. And there'd be plenty of income too, all the Chinese tourists would still need their baby formula right !
icnif77:
It could no doubt, but that's not a Q! HK is China! You don't look at the whole pic./future. Baby formula today, and tomorrow or 10Y from now? 2Y ago when EU was on the trenches title of one article was 'How would Mona Lisa fit on the Chinese Great Wall?'. EU was asking for funds/investments from China….
'As soon……will happened…'?
It won't happened! China is on up, unless 'WW or fatal, incurable disease'!
Think about USA in 1950 -90, just much faster in China, because Chinese see, they were left behind by the Wall/closed for the outside world. Most likely, outside world made Chinese change their policies and 'drop' the wall. And…..I know 'why'!
i think i offended my students when i said if hong kong becomes like china, where will your corrupt leaders hide and smuggle their money out of china, apparently they never thought about that, especially since every student i have is from a wealthy family and half admitted they have accounts in hong kong, imagine that,
they also did not realize about 40 major companies have moved to singapore in the last 2 years from hong kong, the smart rich always get out when the shit hits the fan.
the accounting firms kissing the ass of the ccp to stay in good graces will be fighting over table scraps when all the capital investment leaves, china wanted hong kong to be a 2nd tier city, looks they will get their wish.
explaining how a great city became nothing under the ccp will be a great propaganda fiction for the textbooks for the next half a century, cant wait for the movie.
icnif77:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/30/china-hong-kong-future-protesters-cry-democracy
Read-d-d this! Repost from Phil's HK thread.
Much has changed since 1997. The Chinese economy has grown many times, the standard of living of the Chinese likewise. If you want to access the Chinese market nowadays, why move to Hong Kong when you can go straight to Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Chengdu and a host of other major cities? Hong Kong has lost its role as the gateway to China. Where previously Hong Kong was China’s unrivalled financial centre, now it is increasingly dwarfed by Shanghai. Until recently, Hong Kong was by far China’s largest port: now it has been surpassed by Shanghai and Shenzhen, and Guangzhou will shortly overtake it.
ambivalentmace:
having any trust in shanghai for stock offerings does not exist, so the financial centre they think is in china is really just china blowing their horn for their benefit, nobody trusts china with a stock market, even general motors with billions invested is moving the big bosses to singapore, what you read in the papers is not the real business reality.
icnif77:
'HK can't exist without China' is the gist of this article. That's the reason 1/2 of the HK residents oppose students protest.
How can I know, papers are telling truth? Of course, you read between the lines, but HK is China.
On the other thread last week, my mood/comment was: 'we're pissing against the wind here...', and I still think so. Where are the posters with Qs 'will UK and USA move, if HK get crushed?'. It won't happened, but in case it would, who can move more than 2 fingers against China? In their pockets?
Add-it: trust in Shanghai's market, clean environment, respect to Law, traffic, behaviour of Chinese and such, we're keep slugging here are 'short term weaknesses', what they can fix it quickly, if they desire. IMO. How can you trust FED&US Stocks Exchange, if 'our' West is much different than China is?
Scandinavian:
of course HK can exist without China. As soon as they get a decent supply chain of things they are getting from China today, all will be well. Hong Kong is not an economy based on production (even though there are people working on reviving that) but based on knowledge, just as many smaller 1st world countries.
Hong Kong would thrive on its own. And there'd be plenty of income too, all the Chinese tourists would still need their baby formula right !
icnif77:
It could no doubt, but that's not a Q! HK is China! You don't look at the whole pic./future. Baby formula today, and tomorrow or 10Y from now? 2Y ago when EU was on the trenches title of one article was 'How would Mona Lisa fit on the Chinese Great Wall?'. EU was asking for funds/investments from China….
'As soon……will happened…'?
It won't happened! China is on up, unless 'WW or fatal, incurable disease'!
Think about USA in 1950 -90, just much faster in China, because Chinese see, they were left behind by the Wall/closed for the outside world. Most likely, outside world made Chinese change their policies and 'drop' the wall. And…..I know 'why'!
Hong Kong is more densely populated and has more people per square kilometre than the Mainland and it is better.
Its only shortcoming is the cost of housing.
ambivalentmace:
when the smart money leaves, the housing prices will be self correcting im afraid, maybe i can get another home by the water.
Eorthisio:
Yep, HK is more livable than any Mainland city/place despite having a much higher density of population, the same for Japan, South-Korea, Singapore or Taiwan, it's mostly due to the fact that people in these places are better behaved (or simply civilized).
For e.g in these places people using umbrellas will pay attention to others, in China you must watch out or you might lose an eye.
laowaigentleman:
@Eo
Yes. I've seen elderly ladies have their glasses knocked off their faces by students at the best university in Shijiazhuang.
Anyone who tries to tell you that it is the older generation who were traumatized by the "cultural revolution" - which ended in 1969 incidentally, not 1976 - and as a result became cynical and nihilistic about civilization is full of crap.
I swear the reaction to bus doors opening in the mainland is exactly the same as when a farmer throws food into a pigsty.
I took my Chinese girlfriend to Hong Kong during the summer holidays. We stayed on Nathan Road in Mong Kok. Every time a bus stopped and passengers went to get on I would take her gently by the arm, point to the neatly formed line and say "look! that's how you get on a bus." "See how much quicker all of the passengers get to board?"
laowaigentleman:
@am. I would love to live there. The only thing stopping me is the cost. It's so expensive.
I should point out, considering China's rise and all of the nonsense propagated by academics and billionaires to create the impression that the country is some kind of unstoppable and efficient juggernaut, the term "smart money" now sounds completely oxymoronic to me.
How so many people with so little tangible value to contribute to not just their own societies, but the world as a whole can become so wealthy is mindblowing.
I am sure we're living in a fascinating period of history right now.
I've tried but haven't found anybody capable of doing so.
And if they were capable they had no interest.
Only my fiancee, and while she's not really supporting Occupy, she is at least critical towards China as well. I can't imagine discussing this with ehem... "normal" Chinese.
Generally no, most people here would be incapable of having a substantive conversation on the topic. But I've discussed it briefly with some of my more open-minded friends and the general response is an acknowledgement that HK is miles ahead of the mainland in all ways .There's some sympathy with the protesters. But then they just shrug and go back to the defeatist apathy that is so characteristic of mainlanders.
I just asked my ex-gf... she (seems to) totally support the HK'ers! (at least, words like 'fighting' and 'freedom' were used). And even (after translation) said that the government wants to treat HK like mainlanders, and think the HK'er are 'dumb'... "but they wrong"!
So, I think there are actually many mainlanders (the slightly more educated 'elite') in the wealthier cities, who would be totally agreeing with this sentiment. Maybe even thinking that if HK gets their democracy and all, maybe it can spread...
Remember, the protests in TMS weren't alone!!! And, I read, there are about 80,000 protests EVERY YEAR in China.
Shining_brow:
The middle class..??? Internet?
*(yes, I know what you mean... however, this is a different time)
Shining_brow:
Not true! It was the middle class students who were protesting in TMS and other cities. It's the middle class students mostly having their faces all over the TV in HK right now. It's the middle class that wants to be able to live in a world where they can accumulate more wealth more easily, and to enjoy the freedoms of their wealth that the upper class currently enjoy (and control!)
History has shown that a rising middle class has been one of the most important factors in changing society (values, laws, structures, etc)
So, today at lunch, some of the people there were saying "I've heard this, that and such", rumors, mostly things I haven't come across. Anyways. I made two comments in the debate, one fueled the sentiments: "The violence is sanctioned by Beijing", "....oh, I've heard it is Americans being violent" (this might be true as Occupy may have some funding from US organizations)
Then I ended my involvement in the discussion by "Don't think about what is going on in HK, think about why you don't know"
andy74rc:
...and you got the usual blank stare and same old same old....
laowaigentleman:
Why do you bother? I only talk to other foreigners. Slaves get what they deserve.
Scandinavian:
I do think today a thought was seeded. But yeah, why do I bother. Well, I could sit and talk about iPhones or at least try to talk about something else. Naturally a lot of conversations around a lunchtable is about the food and why the crazy foreigner doesn't eat some of it.
i tried, but didnt go very far, most didnt know much and they got defensive very quickly and would often say things like "we have to take hong kong back", they got the impression that foreigners are to blame and we are trying to take hong kong from them and we shouldnt get involved, but then again they dont really understand the whole situation since its not being covered in the mainland news, a few friends i could actually talk to but they dont think it will go far or that the government would change its mind, one friend told me that hong kong in the future would prob just be another shanghai
I feel like BJ is trying to appeal to this kinda mean streak in people that's really irrational. Like HK is wrong for expecting to be different! How dare they think they're better than you? Time to cut them down to size!
Smart people get that that's completely irrational, that they should be trying to raise themselves up not chop somebody else down.
laowaigentleman:
It's the one part of socialism they did get right - the proverbial tall poppy syndrome.
RiriRiri:
Oh and you haven't seen the "mainland news for mainlanders" part. There's usually a double dose of bullshit in the mandarin papers.
Like when they published innocent articles such as "Lifestyle in Hong Kong", with a bunch of stock pictures of people being comfy, subtext being "look at all those Hong Kongers living in wealth and peace, why those spoiled brats should be protesting".
Quite frankly all the simplistic rhetoric is already out in the press. Why bother.
As my fiance says, "It's a waste of time. How can you expect to undo 3 or more generations of damage?".
She's one of the few...
Spiderboenz:
Maybe you should have heeded her/his advice and not responded to a 2 year old post.
Zethe:
Maybe the website developers should have considered hiring someone with even basic moderator/design/coding skills (Depending on who is the one failing at their job here)
Or better yet, learn to lock posts and keep them...I don't know...NOT at the top of the list :).
Either way, You can't realistically expect to blame the posters here, I could fix this issue in my sleep way back in Middle School.
Discussing Occupy with the Mainlanders as you write is like discussing
Rene Descartes with Donald Trump.
