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Q: Do ALL Chinese women want kids ?

Sorry to air my dirty laundry here but I want to get opinions from people who can possibly relate ...

 

I've had one marriage fail because of my then (Chinese) wife wanting kids, and myself not feeling ready to have them (if ever).

 

I probably should have learnt from the prior experience but now my current relationship is heading exactly the same way (we're not married though). My mistake to think so, but at the start this woman seemed like more of a free spirit who wouldn't have necessarily been inclined towards having kids. Alas, I was very wrong and she's FIERCELY insistent on marriage and kids now, as are her very traditional parents. It's at the point now where if I don't agree then it's 88 (bye bye). Package deal, either it's her +kid/s, or nothing.

 

Basically I've been labelled as "selfish", "irresponsible", "abnormal", "too special" (as in weird), "not a man", "not like 99% of the world" etc. I've also been told if I don't agree to have kids that I don't really love her, and also that understanding and loving China is not about knowing and studying the language, culture, history etc., but it's based on "thinking like a Chinese which means having a family because that is the root of Chinese culture".

 

I'm 40, an Australian, she's 36 and came here from China 6 or 7 years ago and we met at work. Given her age I can understand that time is somewhat running out in terms of starting a family. We've been together 3 years, so maybe it's the "right time" but then she's been on this baby topic for the last two years and I've been telling her to give me time - but she's fed up. To cut a long and boring story short, I love her and wish we could be happy together - as just "us". That's not enough for her though. I'm not 100% against having kids ever, but right here right now, I'd only be 5% in favour of it, and well that's not enough for me.

 

More-so my question here is : are there women in China who are happy to not have kids ? As long as I'm interested in all things China, will I end up in the same situation with any Chinese woman I meet (particularly those in China or brought up there), or are there Chinese women that are actually happy just being with their man ? I'm looking at living in China in the next couple years (I've been half a dozen times since 2005), and if all Chinese women are like this, frankly I'm not even going to look at them, I'm really over the heartbreak, upset and clash of goals and wants. I've been told in no uncertain terms that "all Chinese want kids and family and I might as well stick with foreign women if I don't want that".

 

If there's one thing I've learnt about my girlfriend and my ex-wife, they are very good at generalising and making blanket statements ... but is their truth to what they are saying about Chinese women and kids ? Is it a generational thing (I'm not really into women much younger than me) ? My ex-wife grew up as a villager in Shanxi, this current girlfriend is from big city Shanghai - so they're quite different in that way.

 

Yes, most people across all cultures want kids and family, that is human nature - but is it such an outlandish thing to go against that grain in China ?

 

Any opinions/thoughts/similar experiences most welcome ...

9 years 31 weeks ago in  Relationships - Other cities

 
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  I was kinda like you, early forties and feeling no inclination to have kids at all. Only changed my mind because my mum back home said "Give her a child, she needs one" so I did. I was afraid it was a mistake but I went ahead. Best mistake I ever made.

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9 years 31 weeks ago
 
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Call her bluff and say you want three kids. At age 36 it is the time to act if she wants children. If it is an ultimatum from her side, walk away, it is irresponsible of her to want kids with a guy who doesn't. If you do not want to be a father then you should stay clear of it. If I was you I would probably try to figure out how much of it is her and how much is her parents, even though that distinction can be very difficult to make. If she comes from a very traditional background then that would have a lot to do with it. 

 

All Chinese, both boys and girls, will be very focused on getting their KID (singular) as this is the only way they can (think they can) survive once they pass into old age (which starts already at 55 here) because they need the children to provide all for them. Certainly understandable as there is no social structure in China to take care of retired people, unless they have been so lucky as to having one of the government jobs with lifelong pay.

 

 

...but, having kids is generally a selfish act, in doing so you are giving yourself something you think will bring you many happy moments throughout the remainder of your life

czechone:

"All Chinese, both boys and girls, will be very focused on getting their KID (singular) as this is the only way they can (think they can) survive once they pass into old age (which starts already at 55 here) because they need the children to provide all for them."

 

Yes this is a recurring point in her argument too ... and she is quite shocked that I haven't considered or at least apparently don't care what happens to me when I'm "old".

 

Good point you make there too about the parents, who are VERY traditional ("life is about providing for the family", "leisure activities like travelling are not productive and a waste of time" etc.). I've had a few lectures from her father too about not giving their daughter what she wants i.e. sit me down, in my face, finger digging into my chest "now you listen here, and you listen good" type talks.

 

So yeah, they started the ball rolling a couple years ago, but she has been equally if not more-so keen herself now. Every time she sees a baby, be it on TV, in real-life, someone brings theirs in to work - she's all over it.

 

It's a shame, because I can see how much she wants it - but I don't feel that way and don't feel I should be more or less forced into agreeing. Love sux man, I should have been born a smooth player who just wants to mack hoes - but that's never been me ...

 

Thanks for the clued-in reply.

 

 

9 years 31 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

maybe, as they educate you on the importance of children to provide for the older generations, you could educate them that there is another way (this would be easiest if you are filthy rich with an impressive retirement plan that can put food in the entire family's mouth. 

 

make sure they do not fear that you will steal away they girl so they are left with nothing (this is NOT me being a proponent of the good old dowry) but think of some way of offering some comfort that they will not starve in their old days. 

 

or give in and have children. I can tell you I am happy not to be in your shoes. 

9 years 31 weeks ago
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9 years 31 weeks ago
 
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i'm not gonna bother to read your entire post. 

bottom line, before the first date , you should find a way to casually mention that you do not want kids. and ask if she ever wants kids in the future. that will save you a lot of headaches. 

there are women who do not want kids for various reasons.

most common (from my experience) , women who are divorced and had their kids taken from them. (but you always have to worry about them coming back) 

single women who do not want children are unicorns. difficult to find, but they do exist. i met 1 in my entire time in china. 

the reason. there are 2 reasons for this. first, women have no control over their bodies. their bodies are to produce babies , for country, for parents, for husband.  their value is attached to producing babies (no babies = worthless woman). this is why women are sold from the parents to the husbands family.  second, every relationship in china is a business relationship. as the famous Chinese rapper piao dada said, "it's all about the maos baby"  husband/ wife, parents/ children, all about money. children are the parents social security (backed up by the law). 

i also found it very odd that i was called selfish. but  here is the reason why. you are doing what you want instead of doing what the govt and your parents want. irresponsible, you want to have no one to take care of us when we are old, we will be poor .(remember, chinese are brainwashed from birth with these ideas)

 

i'm tired and i'm losing my train of thought

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9 years 31 weeks ago
 
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99% of Chinese women want to have kids,so far in my life,I only know one woman who don't want to have a kid,she's My friend,not a real friend actually, a selfish,lazy and irresponsible woman I have ever met,let me tell you why,she always tell us the disadvantage about having a baby,like your shape will look so terrible,suffer a lot of pain during giving birth,and Can not travel to somewhere if  you have a baby something like that.Never told us the advantage about having a baby.

Believe me your GF must love you so much,otherwise she won't want to have a baby with you.

To My husband and me,Having a baby will be a product of our true love.Can not wait lol

I am a Chinese woman BTW.

crimochina:

maggie , i love you but you are a victim of brainwashing. her choice is just that, her personal choice. it does not mean she is a bad person. 

you and your husband having a child is not proof of your love. 

 

think back to when you were very young. your grandma first implanted these ideas in your head. re-enforced by your parents. re-enforced and developed in school and by the people around you. all through out your life.

 

and to prove my point , how many men cheat on their wives even after having children?

how many divorces? 

how many women/ men are abused by their spouses?

a child is not proof of love

9 years 31 weeks ago
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MissA:

I actually mostly agree with you crimo, but in one regard you're really not being fair to maggie.

 

She said our child is a product (not proof) of our love, which is talking about her own particular feelings about impending parenthood, not making a general statement that children prove love.

9 years 31 weeks ago
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crimochina:

your right missa. sorry maggie

9 years 31 weeks ago
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JohnathonSteel:

Oh goody. More jingoistic bullshit.

 

Babies are repulsive, by the way.

6 years 29 weeks ago
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9 years 31 weeks ago
 
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I really hope you told her your true feelings on this 2 years ago, and that you're keeping her updated. Her clock really is ticking, if you definitely don't want kids then tell her so and let her break it off. 2 years is more time than you should have taken from her on this issue.

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crimochina : LOL at the P Diddy/piao dada there. Well yeah it has been suggested to me that I should have asked about the kids thing right at the start, but then as I said in my initial post I thought she was different so I just rolled with the romance and initial bliss of everything early on. However being 40 and not 14, I probably should ask these questions of a woman straight up in the future, it's apparently not just about hanging out and enjoying each other's company anymore as we reach middle-age.

 

To the question here about letting her know how I felt before ? For sure, she's never been in the dark about it. We've probably had the baby discussion (well, usually argument) about 87 times since then and part of me did think maybe I can get used to the idea - but it's not seeming that way as time goes on.  Yes I know, the fairest thing is to break things off if that's the case, but easier said than done, for both of us I guess as we've been clinging onto each other despite this difference ...

 

So from the responses here so far, it seems that women not wanting kids is in fact a rarity. Guess I might be in for a hard time in the relationship stakes then ...

Shining_brow:

That sounds very much like you've both been expecting the other person to change to your particular attitude. That NEVER works in relationships...

 

Let me put it to you this way... if you're 40 and trying to play the 'mature' hand here (and you'd ask in the future if they want kids) then you really need to play the same hand and end it!

 

Or, bite the bullet, and have kids... (certainly NOT my advice!!!)

 

Whatever you do, do some serious soul-searching... being the child of a parent who resents your existence - because of all the "what I really wanted to do with my life was... then you came along and ruined it all", really isn't fun!

 

(granted, you may change when things start moving along in that way... but, it sounds like it's not something you can predict... and a person's life is at stake here...)

9 years 30 weeks ago
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  I was kinda like you, early forties and feeling no inclination to have kids at all. Only changed my mind because my mum back home said "Give her a child, she needs one" so I did. I was afraid it was a mistake but I went ahead. Best mistake I ever made.

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I have only known 2 Chinese women who didn't want kids.  Both of them were basically big kids and had no desire to change.

 

When I met my wife, I didn't want kids either.  I never considered myself father material.  I have little patience and I like things quiet.  Plus, I can be quite the selfish bastard a lot of the time.

 

But, I loved my wife a lot and since I would have her, her mother, and two live in maids to help care for the kid, I figured my role would be minimal outside of teaching, playing, etc...  I gave my wife one firm rule: "Daddy does NOT touch a diaper EVER."  To my surprise, she agreed.

 

1 year later, we had twin boys.  And 5 years later, I have never touched a diaper.  I may have not wanted my kids, and I still believe I am a horrible father, but I love my boys dearly and I would do anything (except diapers) for them at all.

 

Basically it boils down to selfishness.  You can't have your cake and eat it too.  If you don't want kids, let the girl go find someone who will give them to her.  If you love her enough, then you will need to accept the kids as part of the package.

Hulk:

Exactly this. I was clear and upfront with all previous girlfriends that I wanted kids. They didn't, so I left.

9 years 31 weeks ago
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Hey, there. Join the club, we're in the same boat (more or less).

I'm 36 years old. I have a son. We didn't plan to have him, it just happened, I just didn't want to kill the  unborn baby.  I love my son, he brings a lot of joy  to me & my husband. But I didn't want to have kids (as I said it just happened) & if I had no kids now, I wouldn't want to have any.  I don't think you're "selfish" or "abnormal", you're a very responsible person. Children should come when they're desired & when the family is ready emotionally & financially.

 My husband is Chinese & we have a lot of arguments about having the second child. You see, Chinese are not allowed by the law to have two kids, but since I'm not a

Chinese citizen, we can have two.

 His  family wants it, he wants it, but i don't.  He calls me selfish ( I don't want to go through the pregnancy & birth ordeal again),  But I think I'm not a "baby" person.  I want a career  (not just a job), I want to see the world. I missed many job opportunities because my son was too young & no one was around to help me to babysit.  The best job I could take was teaching English in a college.  Our marriage is at its critical point now because of this major disagreement.

 When people are being pushed to have kids, their human rights & privacy have been violated.  Having   children  is our right ,  not duty.  Since the ideas of  human rights & privacy   do not exist in China,  it's hard to get this message across to your girlfriend & my husband.

 If you agree to have this baby, the second one will be coming soon.

Besides, Chinese people do love to show off their mixed-blood kids, so your GF is mad at you because you deprive her of such a chance.

Cheers, smiley

 

Hulk:

The first baby is always the most difficult. Afterwards, your body adjusts.

9 years 31 weeks ago
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czechone:

Children should come when they're desired & when the family is ready emotionally & financially.

 

Of all that's been said in this topic so far, this comment sums up my thinking towards my situation the most, I've believed that as long as I was old enough to think of kids - and I've said that to her often. The response from her is "yes that would be the ideal scenario but look at my age", and she's not wrong in saying that. Difficult place to be in.

9 years 31 weeks ago
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Listen. She's 36 years old and doesn't have a child? Do you know how many non-Chinese women desperately want a child at that point, especially if they're childless? I KNOW A LOT OF THEM.

 

If you get married, and you don't give her a child, you're looking at a divorce, or a spouse that's unhappy for the rest of her life. It seems obvious that it's all about you in the relationship, and not about her needs and wants. That's selfish. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but... relationships aren't only about loving one another, but also making sacrifices for each other, whether big or small.

 

My wife has been too sick, tired and uncomfortable in her pregnancy to do much, and she's often afraid to go outside. I hate cooking, cleaning, doing the laundry, etc... but you know what? I happily do it for her. I also gave up a really comfortable life, lots of money (China can be expensive if you're me), including school for three semesters, all so I could be with her. I could easily return to America now and do whatever I want, but that would be selfish.

 

Again, relationships are about love and sacrifices. If you can't make any sacrifices, you'll never have a successful relationship for long. If it turns out the woman isn't perfect enough for you, you'll always be looking for "something better," and it's a great way to end up alone.

 

Just go ahead and give her a baby, or leave her so she can find a real man who is willing to make sacrifices for her. Then go find a 40+ year old divorced Chinese woman who doesn't want another kid.

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Mate, I see a number of problem with your situation, and the kids/no kids thing is just one of them.

 

- You strongly imply that your girlfriend's parents control her choices in life. Big problem.

 

- Your GFs father feels happy laying down chest-poking-ultimatums to you. Big problem.

 

- You are being told that the only way to understand your GF is to think and act exactly like a Chinese. Big problem. You aren't Chinese, you're not going to win that one, no matter how much you try.

 

- Labelling you as selfish and irresponsible and abnormal because you have different life goals to her? Is that okay with you?

 

One thing you're right about, though, her time is running out. If she is going to be a mum, she needs to start trying in the next two years, max.

 

If you're not going to have kids with her, she needs to be told that as an ultimatum so she can make a decision to either accept and deal with it, or have a little time to find someone else who will have kids with her.

GuilinRaf:

I agree. If She wants kids and You dont, then the best thing you can do is let her go.

I have been in China for six years now, and I have yet to meet a Chinese girls who does not want kids.

 

EDIT: This was directed at the OP,!

9 years 30 weeks ago
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Hulk : It seems obvious that it's all about you in the relationship, and not about her needs and wants. That's selfish.

Funny, this is exactly what she says. Why is it selfish though ? Aren't there two sides to something like this ? How about my needs and wants, am I not entitled to have them, on an equal level ?

a) I agree to have a baby and she gets what she wants - I'm making the sacrifice and being selfless.
b) She marries me and doesn't have a baby - she's making the sacrifice and being selfless.
c) We split up - both selfless ?

Ultimately either one of us is going be the more/less selfish one and either one is going to "win" or "lose".  Why should it be all about her ? Why should it be all about me ? There's two people here with their own wants, goals and futures.

Miss A: Labelling you as selfish and irresponsible and abnormal because you have different life goals to her? Is that okay with you?

Re: abnormal, well I just see people as being different, and perhaps I'm very different - but you know what, I'm comfortable with that. I don't set out to be non-conformist but nor do I strive to be like the person next to me just because that is the expected way to be. I don't know whether it's a Chinese thing or not, but she quite strongly believes in being "normal" and "following the Joneses", whereas I appreciate and enjoy the diversity in people. Yes maybe I am selfish in not wanting to devote the rest of my life to a child, but every choice we make is going to involve thoughts of "self", I think that's nature. Irresponsible - nah I don't understand that label from her at all - I'm responsible towards my health, my job, my studies, my family/friends and other things in this world around me, some of them are responsibilities I've chosen to take on, some are just responsibilities of everyday life. By labelling me as such, I think it's more that she's thinking that I want to remain 18 forever and I'm not a real "man" if I don't want to have a child. Which isn't right, I'm pretty mature and level-headed, lead a quiet life, work, study, read, exercise, and I'm not into partying or nightlife or playing around or whatever.

Interesting points here all around though, I don't really think there's a right or wrong, but yes I/we need to make a decision and move on together - or apart.

MissA:

Hulk, it sounds to me like his girlfriend taking a selfish approach - she wants a baby, so the OPs thoughts on the matter and suitability as a dad are irrelevent to her.

 

You sound like a patient man, OP, and from what you're saying you don't sound selfish or unreasonable. Letting her think you'll give her a kid, when you have no intentions so, though, would be selfish.

 

 

 

 

9 years 31 weeks ago
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Hulk:

The biggest issue I have with this is that he pretty much led her on, and wasted years of her life.

9 years 31 weeks ago
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I think there are a few Chinese women who wouldn't want to have kids but very few.  As far as I know its one of the things all women look forward to (at least at some point in their life).  I know if I were going to deprive someone of that I'd feel awfully guilty. 

 

Just do it.  Marry her and give her a kid.  It will take some courage in the beginning but in the end you both will be glad you did it.  

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You only have once chance at life and having children is possibly the one thing most people want to do. I would say your life revolves around it naturally. If you don't want kids, that's fine... but don't keep a relationship going with a woman who wants them if you have no intention of having them, it's really not fair to her. Think about it, then make a decision. 

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Mostly of them they do but there are so many who give up on them after they give birth and let other relatives to take care of their children. There is a teacher I know who sent her child, now aged 3, to be raised by somebody else and pays his child 1 time visit per week. If that is not mean, what should it be called like? And she is a teacher. I asked another teacher about it and she said that this in China is very normal. I assume that following the Chinese tradition she as any women wanted to have a baby. But giving up on him like that it just doesn't make sense. 

BTW. You may understand that the relation with your girlfriend will soon stop. She looks to be pushed against the strings by very objective reasons and you can't deny her need to have  a baby at her age. She will look elsewhere for a very urgent natural matter and you will have to let her go. Even if she still wants to stay with you but you are still unwilling to give her a baby you better let her go. That at least you can and should do. 

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I'm surprised that so many non-Chinese folks on this site prop the guy to have a baby which he stated very clearly he doesn't want to have.  If I'm sure about my life goals, I wouldn't give in. Yes, relationship is about sacrifices, but doing the chores is one thing, taking the responsibility of becoming a parent is a different thing. I can do the dishes tomorrow if I'm not in the mood today, but children's needs have to be attended immediately.

  You should answer this question: How much sacrifice is your relationship worth? If she is more important to you than your freedom, go for it & give her a baby. If not, say sorry & stick to your guns. But there's one thing agree with: You should make yourself very clear, her time is running out. 

GuilinRaf:

I am surprised as well.

If a person, man or woman, thinks that they wont be a good parent (or just dont WANT to be a parent) then the responsible thing to do is to not have kids.

To not want them and cave in to peer pressure and have them, is irresponsible in my opinion.

9 years 18 weeks ago
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Well here so many people wrote the stories . Don't like to look at all.

 

In short, you should be ready with your partner before age of 30 years of her , or 35 years at last to have Kids, then you both can have plan for their future.

 

And Child should be needed in the family for Generation growth.

 

Am I right ?

9 years 30 weeks ago
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MissA:

No.

9 years 30 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

NOOO!!!

9 years 30 weeks ago
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ElenaDob:

No. It's Chinese logic.

9 years 30 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

you're wrong

9 years 30 weeks ago
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To answer the OP "Do ALL Chinese women want kids?"

 

'ALL', almost certainly not, but 'nearly all' almost certainly yes. From my (admittedly limited) understanding of Chinese culture Confucianism is still one of the central teachings, this puts the family full square at the centre of Chinese life and culture. Therefore almost all Chinese are taught from a very early age that they must have children (after all no children means no family). Add to this the very limited welfare in the current Chinese system means people need family as a means to ensuring there is someone to look after them if they become old and frail.

 

Your partner is getting close to the age when having children becomes a lot more dangerous (both to the unborn child and the mother), she knows this. Of course you have the rights to be part of the decision too, but I do think you need to make up your mind one way or another, very soon.

czechone:

Yep can't argue with any of that.

 

9 years 30 weeks ago
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Sorry, wrong post....!

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Here's the best way for you to decide:

 

Heads is stay, tails is leave- flip a coin.

 

The outcome doesn't matter, but you'll know which one you're hoping for as soon as the coin leaves your hand.

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Mine doesn't.  She has a young nephew who is a pain in the ass, and he turned her off to the idea of having kids.  Her parents don't care because they already have a male grandson.  Her best friend had a kid, and she saw how it sort of wrecks your social life and negatively effects the mother's body.  Guess I lucked out!

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Mine doesn't.  She has a young nephew who is a pain in the ass, and he turned her off to the idea of having kids.  Her parents don't care because they already have a male grandson.  Her best friend had a kid, and she saw how it sort of wrecks your social life and negatively effects the mother's body.  Guess I lucked out!

 

Yeah if only I had that situation. Every time I point out a "brat" to my partner asking her if she'd want to deal with that every day, she assures me ours would be well behaved and quiet, as we are both quiet people. I don't really believe you can predict the nature of your future kid to be honest, nor will the kid necessarily take on the parents' nature. Can't convince her though.

 

My partner has a nephew actually (her younger sister's son), but that hasn't eased the family pressure. Plus they don't like her sister's husband, which doesn't help. He's Chinese and apparently HE finds the parents in law too dominating and interfering ... what chance do I have LOL ?

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9 years 30 weeks ago
 
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Not at all,most of chinese women would like to have kids.

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9 years 30 weeks ago
 
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Ok, here's my positions (one that can get me roundly flamed for Laughing out loud)

 

Having kids is the single, most irresponsible, selfish thing a human is ever likely to do in their life!

 

There are currently over seven BILLION humans on this planet today, and more coming into it every day. This planet already has a hard enough time dealing with them all, and yet people keep on populating it with their brood. It leads to destruction, violence, war, pollution, etc etc etc.

 

Humans, basically, suck!

 

Additionally, with all the pollution and wars and greed going on, you'd be bringing a child into the world to experience... what?? "Life"? What, having a pulse is somehow better than not being born at all?? I don't get that!!

 

You can't control what sort of life your child will experience, but I can guarantee what sort of effect having another human on the planet is going to have...

 

Oh, your child is so much more important than all the others?? Your child needs to be born - it must be someone else's kids who aren't allowed to be born - someone else who must make that 'sacrifice' of not keeping the population (over-) sustained...

 

So, someone, please tell me how making this world a little worse off (by adding another human life to it) is somehow 'irresponsible'... or 'selfish'.....

 

 

From a more personal, and less global, perspective... everyone talks about 'having kids' - no-one seems to think of 'making a person'. You know, it's not all the first few years and that's it... the person is a 'kid' for only a very small period of time... but the influence a parent (and those others around in the formative years) stay with that person for the rest of their lives. You, as the primary carers, will teach this person basically everything that is important to being a human being... concepts such as courage, strength, wisdom, power, etc etc etc... do you have those qualities shining brightly, for your young person to learn? Do you have those sorts of people around you - the ones who can teach this person those things??

 

 

7 Billion people, all helping to destroy this planet (and all the other life-forms on it)... how many actually deserve to live??? (nope, having a pulse is not sufficient reason...)

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9 years 30 weeks ago
 
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