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Q: do chinese people understand chinese culture?
Do chinese people realize that their countrymen are liars and cheats?
Fridge was busted for a few weeks, kept telling the gf to tell the landlady to replace it. Because clearly the motor was busted. Gf tells me that we need to do blah blah blah with the fridge. I told her that the landlady is lieing. After doing blah blah blah with the fridge, it still doesn't work. I say I told you she was lieing, chinese traditional trademarked blank stare. Next she says that the landlady said we need to do blah blah blah blah. I say she is lieing . Few days later I get to say again I told you she was lieing and get the blank stare sgain. This goes on for 3 more weeks. Until I finally told her to call the landlady everyday until she changes the fridge. Her response, she already knows about the problem. I say again call her and tell her that we will call her everyday until the fridge is changed. 30 minutes after the call the landlady took a fridge from a chinese tenant and exchanged it with ours. As I went to tell my gf I told you so she said very happily"i told you she already knew about the problem" I kid you Pucking not!!
At work the boss lies constantly. I am the only moron who notices and hey but last time you said abc now you are saying xyz but actually gfe is true(gfe is great if you can get it) a room full of chinese traditional trademark blank stares. Next week gfe turns out to be true. Blank stares!
This morning I read the article about 120 morons believing that a lucrative job required them to front 350rmb . Don't chinese people know that Chinese are liars and cheats?
Then 2 of the morons were careless and lost their backpack with everything? How pucking brain dead can you be?
The authentic Chinese culture does not exist anymore in China since the 1960s, it has been replaced by a tasteless stereotypical version of itself.
The traditional Chinese culture is irremediably linked to the traditional sinograms, take the character for love 愛 (Ai), it is made of a heart 心 located inside accept/feel/perceive 受, it makes sense that love is "felt with heart", now it is simplified to 爱 and omitted the heart part, it's love without heart.
During the Cultural Revolution the CCP has done everything to destroy the traditional Chinese culture then seen as "barbaric" and "outdated" to replace it with the Party's Culture, as Chinese culture is also linked to Religion (chinese religions and buddhism among others) they have taken down every temples they could and built instead statues of Mao Zedong.
Today's Chinese celebrate traditional events such as the Spring Festival or the Dragon Boat Festival without knowing the meaning of these moments, they do it because "it's tradition and we do it every year", they don't feel anything while celebrating it, they are only doing it because they were told to do so.
In short, no Chinese don't understand Chinese culture as it doesn't exist anymore, this is not the culture they have grown in, and most have no interest to learn about it.
Scandinavian:
Nice factoid about Love without heart :)
But the question remains, do Chinese understand the modern replacement of their traditional culture?
masonk:
@Scandinavian - you mean government culture? no, Id argue that its just about impossible for anyone to truly understand communism with capitalist characteristics, its just hogwash b.s that makes no sense. The idea of communism itself isn't practical and its hard to believe anyone would be able to understand Chinese contemporary culture in its current state.
Scandinavian:
Deng Xiaopeng got rid of communism in China. Since then it has been something else. Chinaism or whatever you'd label it.
I do however, not confuse government with culture. The government has impact on culture, but culture is its own. "The modern replacement" = "shop as much as you can and don't care if you step on people while doing so"
masonk:
Fair enough, Deng wanted the end of the iron bowl phase of China, that was bad enough I reckon. It must've been incredibly hard to of dealt with having a communist society, having it taken away, and then replaced with a set of polar opposite ideologies sugar coated as "communist".
Modern culture here solely revolves around materialism, and ways in which one can make or gain something for his/her self. There's no sense of wanting cultural preservation by the public, its all about having a China *cough* American dream.
I can NEVER understand how Chinese people think by lying, and are caught out in a lie, is saving face.
My previous employer lied all the time to the FT's, and the contact in the International Office frequently got very offended when caught out: which happened very often.
I for one despair of a country not above scamming even family members (i have heard 1st hand examples)
As for the people foolish enough to think a job requires money up-front - what can i say?
people are let loose from school with NO life experience, having been babied most of their lives, many are unable to cope with common problems, and a lot of Chinese have no qualms about scamming each other.
they only have themselves to blame for being taken in by such obvious scams.
I have walked some students very slowly through dealing with common problems in a logical manner and the 'blank stare' the OP mentions is an expression I am familiar with.
Eorthisio:
Yep, the HR guy at my current job always lie and also get offended when caught, like it's normal to lie and you are wrong for telling the truth or exposing his lies. I never understood and definitely don't want to understand such mindset, not that I am a newbie in China, I have been here for 5 years and speak fluent putonghua, I just don't want to learn any more Chinese culture, especially everything revolving around the face saving and white lies.
they can't understand the culture..bcoz their minds are not trained to do so..
they are just experts in following what has been told to them
Chinese grow up in a cultural vacuum, surrounded by inhumanity and cruelty.
Saving face is not so much a cultural side-effect, as it is a survival skill.
When you are scammed or lied to, it is made clear by a bully that you are to play the role of the victim. A meek, unquestioning victim plays its role best. The blank stares are outward display. There is realization of all the lies, but even more realization that the liar is watching and judging your performance. That's why people don't respond by protecting their interests logically: If you stand up to the bullly, you are issuing a challenge. Chinese wish to avoid conflict.
It's socially reinforced cowardice at a level we are unaccustomed to, that's all.
There are two questions here. Do the people of China understand the past culture & Do the people of China understand the present culture.
I think people are living in an illusion where the past culture is confused with the present.
Are people aware that their glorious culture was replaced with a crappy one during the last decades ?
coineineagh:
Glorious is a bit strong. Glorified would be a better term. THey have a rich history of footbinding, growing long fingernails to be perceived as leisurely and not-a-farmer, skin bleaching, poisoning, leaders who ruled by bullying and were incapable of leading independently without seeking the counsel of wise-men-on-hills, building massive walls as poorly-concocted defense against raids, you name it. But I agree that what they have now is even worse than before.
xinyuren:
@coin... you're conveniently forgetting the Tang and Song Dynasties which thrived under the most advanced culture of it's time. China certainly has some ancient history to be proud of. The utter shame is how they came down to this.
I think most people have clues about their own culture, yes 
The thing that is puzzling you, I think, is the difference in the ways to cope with problems. Namely, it seems many Chinese will avoid to face an existing problem, waiting for the problem to be solved, rather than solving it by themselves. Avoiding troubles, avoiding the responsibility for an eventual error, etc. Eventually, if you wait long enough, the problem might be fixed, and you get a "I told you so !" look, ie. blank stare. Solving things by yourself sounds foolish to them because you expose yourself to troubles if you fail.
As for the scamming/cheating... I think most Chinese are aware of it, just see the deep mistrust & drama you get whenever some leap of faith is required They get amazed by the ease non-Hans give trust (a recurrent remark from tourist going to the West of China), not really aware that not being always scared to be scammed is normal, not exceptional, far from the Middle Kingdom.
coineineagh:
@scan: that would explain all the pollution! p.s.: the Dutch word 'oplossen' can mean both solve or dissolve...
Many Chinese are well aware of what was lost. They are aware of how it was lost. And they are vaguely aware of where they are now. This shame has become a part of their national psyche and I believe it is the reason for much of their strange behavior. They have to deal with the shame in their past at the hands of a little island to the east and foreign countries from the west. How to endure such shame and yet keep face and pride in their present situation? After all, everyone should be allowed to have pride in their homeland. This is a tricky psychological situation for the Chinese.
They have lost most all of the wars they have fought (if body count can be used as measure) except the ones fought in their daytime TV dramas. They are still just a developing country when all around them, Asian nations are developed. They have to steal technology and design because they can't develop their own to meet world standards. They are aware of this! How to keep face in such a situation? overcompensation? superiority complexes? nationalist fervor? Truthfully, it aint easy being Chinese. For so many, it's not a matter of knowing or not. They know. It's a matter of keeping their dignity and pride.
Scandinavian:
Is there any of these problems that China handles poorly, that India isn't also struggling with. But India develops, improves etc "the normal" way.
DrMonkey:
@Scandinavian : Sorry, but you are being clueless about India :p
xinyuren:
Have you been to India, Scandi? And what exactly is normal? Each country's history is unique and especially China's. Are you inferring that Chinese people are aliens? They are humans who have gone thru a different set of circumstances than the typical American or Scandinavian. Open your ears and listen to what you are saying. The Chinese are not animals or subhuman. They are just a subset of humankind that went thru special circumstances. It's an interesting thing to observe, but in no way do I view them as less than human.
jetfire9000:
Dude... India is "improving the normal way?" What's that even mean? Never been there, but I heard it's sorta' a mess. Just think about one thing: Whenever Chinese want to point out that they are doing well, they will almost always point to India as the example to compare themselves with.
Plus, India's a so-called democracy, but how well is that going to work with a Caste system in place? I think a Chinese style government would help pull them out of the current throes a lot quicker.
Scandinavian:
@all. No I haven't been to India. I have friends from there, I read news (it being a Bric) is interesting. "Developing the normal way" is me saying. India is not cutting corners. Sure it has lots of problems. The Caste system is a terrible thing. I have a friend from a very high caste, who is a big opponent of it, and I also have a friend from a lower caste who strangely is much less opposed.
Hunger, pollution etc. Yes India has problems.
But they do pull of having elections with a billion+ people, a thing that the Chinese are brainwashed into thinking is not possible. THAT is the main reason to ever bring up India in the context of China.
Don't make this more complicated than it is. Two words should cover it all up: face and money. End of the story.
On a different note, I invited two of my Chinese friends to a movie. One arrived 10 minutes early and the other 5 minutes late. I have American friends who are honest and who are too smart for honesty. I have an American bf who keeps gfe to himself until thousands of my brain cells work together to help me figure it out based on his abc and xyz.
I'm not intending to sound like a nationalist, and my family do find our fellow countrymen absurd and frustrating. But I think it's safe to say that every community, no matter how strange it may look to outsiders, functions as long as it reaches a point of silent consensus and stays there. Would I get a blank stare if I told an American girl not to have sex with any boy she dates a few times? Probably an incredulous look given how Americans have much more facial expressions than we Chinese do.
Good or bad, that's what we call diversity.
xinyuren:
good comment. I hope we can hear more of your viewpoints in the future. Thoughtful Chinese views are few to come by on this forum.
Shining_brow:
Sorry FlyingHeart but "But I think it's safe to say that every community, no matter how strange it may look to outsiders, functions as long as it reaches a point of silent consensus and stays there." I think is complete rubbish!
Let's look at humanity as a whole... While there is so much scientific data that says our planet is about to undergo a monumental upheaval due to climate change - one that harkens back to millions of years ago when most of life on the planet went extinct - yet most humans still do the "silent consensus and stay there". This is non-functional to any meaningful extent - in the long run. Remaining silent is a good way to avoid current problems, and hope that the next generation fixes them. However, that next generation has been taught to remain silent and do nothing.
xinyuren:
My take on her meaning of "silent consensus" was that every stable community has come to a mutual agreement, a sort of status quo in order to remain viable. Little tweaks could be made from time to time, of course, but only small changes to be made If there was a revolution every generation, the community would be in constant chaos. I wonder if that is what she meant here. Perhaps she will come back and clarify.
flyingheart:
@Shining-brow: I totally agree with you. If I singled out that particular sentence and put it in a new context as you did, I'd say exactly the same. But to "function" I didn't attach any attribute of "right" or "wrong". I only meant the culture works for the community it resides in. On a different level, man-made climate change is a bad product of man's greed, but without it you and I wouldn't be able to discuss via a thin line called optic fibre. The same goes for a culture. Face drives Asian people crazy but at some point it helps them function in a certain setting mixed with political and historical elements (Too busy to think of an example, sorry, but it does). Cultures change with new generations. Again whether such changes are good or bad is another big topic. It suffices to say that we should develop a dialectic view to prevent the same craziness we see in this world. :)
I don't think Chinese people understand Chinese culture.
Hey, I'm Scottish and I don't understand Scottish culture.
As a late celebration of Nicolas Teslas birthday, a quote from this brilliant man.
"Of all the frictional resistances, the one that most retards human movement is ignorance, what Buddha called ' the greatest evil in the world'"
Also. Something I just stumbled upon
"In Buddhism, there is no particular dealing with evil. Rather it is merely another aspect of suffering. Suffering is a product of ignorance. Once one is aware of oneself then one will recognize that one is capable of evil only in ignorance. Suffering and pain can be ended through the pursuit of truth and self knowledge."
from http://www.taoism.net/articles/evil.htm
What the hell is going on with fridges in Qingdao? I've gone through 3 or 4 and the same shit from the landlord.
The standards are lower here than anywhere else I've lived in China.
Scandinavian:
a quick roundtrip in my MILs apartment shows 100% non-Chinese appliances. I'll bet you an older woman has her reasons for blowing fat stacks on brands like Siemens when the local brands cost less than half for "same specs" She is probably dead tired of having them replaced all the time. She actually looked a bit disappointed recently when a Mitsubishi AC gave in. In having it fixed, she realized it is 6 years old and has only ever received basic maintenance. Now it can hep her stay cold for even more years.
Englteachted:
I lived in my apartment in the States for over 10 years. Same everything as when I moved in, never had a problem. But I wonder how many go arounds did you MIL have to have before she stopped buying Chinese brands?
Scandinavian:
That would be a too complicated task to get through. I did help her replace her "random Chinese brand" CRT tv with a flat screen. She was very keen on not getting Chinese, so I suggested Samsung, LG Sony..... but alas, these come from evil countries. It ended up with a Sony after a lot of convincing that this is a really good brand (of the choice available to see in the local store)
I'll just throw this into the pool about Chinese culture
http://www.skepticblog.org/author/chan/
This in particular is a very good read, the second paragraph hits the nail on the head.
http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/11/02/tcm-1/#more-220
