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Sign up with Google Sign up with FacebookQ: Do you ever feel that you've gone too far in an argument?
Sometimes I end up voicing my opinions rather honestly and in depth (about the CCP, Tibet, Taiwan, Tiananmen Square, the Diaoyu Islands, Democracy, Censorship, MaoZeDong, the National Party, the Chinese media, WW2, etc.). Then I notice the mood amongst bystanders has got a bit darker and I think "maybe I went too far and I'm in trouble". Does this ever happen to you?
Tip-toeing around sensitive topics is one of the more important skills when living in another country. Each country has topics that outsiders just shouldn't bring up unless you are really, really close to the people you are talking to.
Not to say I haven't done it. Even with my own wife, there are topics that I just can't bring up if I want a happy life.
I only ever get seem to get in converaations about Taiwan, as far as sensitive topics go. Probably because I am so young that people ask whether I am a student, and need to explain how I studied under Chinese and Taiwanese professors in the US. And they're like... "You mean Chinese?". I have yet to get a solid explanation as to why Taiwanese products are in the foreign foods section...
Not if you are truthful. I don't think Solzhenitsyn and Pasternak felt they went to far in their arguments.
rasklnik:
"The new bachelor of science degree does not mean a student knows any science. What it does mean is that a student does NOT know any Latin."
Generally, I try to not get into arguments about things I'm emotionally invested in, the reason being that it'll be hard for me to present my case in an unbiased way and to view differing opinions objectively.
Many Chinese people will feel that same difficulty accepting your views on certain political topics. It's best to just not go there. Because they were taught that their government's views are to be treated as their own views, they'll get personally offended if you question them. Even if you think knowing the truth would help them, they're not emotionally ready for the truth until they search for it themselves. Only those who ask for your opinion in an honestly curious manner will actually benefit from hearing it.
As a moderate, who agrees with and disagrees with Conservatives and Liberals, depending on the issue, I learned long ago to keep my opinions to myself. In the States, I will answer only if people ask me directly (and I will ask them first, "do you really want to know?". Half the time, "they" are the ones who tell me "forget it".).
Now, when talking to my Chinese friends, I will simply refuse to answer (unless it is my girlfriend, and then I will be as diplomatic as possible.
The only time I lost it, was last summer, when nearly an entire class of adult students (teachers no less!) harassed another student just because her mother came from "the Land of the Rising Sun" even though that student identified herself as Chinese, and supported "the islands" being given to China.
I tried to get her transferred to another class, where she had friends and the School said that they couldn't do that. It was not until I walked out of the school, not even half way done with class, that they transferred her.
I guess that means that my answer is "no".
China is not an open democratic nation, you really should of known this before you came here, as such talking about, (let alone arguing about) sensitive topics such as Tiananmen, Tibet, Taiwan, Diaoyu Islands, Democracy, Dictatorship etc is foolhardy at best and downright provocative at worst.
If you feel it's your 'moral duty' to educate the Chinese about this, in my opinion, you are no better than any other proselytizer. We are here to do a job, teach English, run a business, whatever, but I am 100% certain your visa is not to 'educate' the Chinese on such matters.
As to me? No, I don't even discuss such issues, not even with my friends and only very occasionally with my wife. I need such discussions about as much as I need to be deported.
Amonk:
I come to a similar conclusion from a different perspective. In general, we are being paid to "teach English", or to look pretty and speak English at children. Either way, most of us are not paid to teach western historical or political perspectives. Unless you are teaching culture, then you have some latitude.
Hugh.G.Rection:
A wimp with an intact sphincter. If you protest about such matters, you may not be so fortunate.
A while ago I came across a comment where someone said "sometimes it's better to get on with people than to be right". I try and remember that but usually fail and end up being looked at with heavy (aggressive) accusation by all that I know when I've told them why what they're doing is insulting, small-minded, and backwards.
Samsara, you are definitely a strong willed woman, this is something that Chinese women are too but have no real mind of their own, just the embedded BS the communist party has instilled in them, but you should respect the fact that this isn't home. That being said, I do the same thing and same topics, one because it is true, two because I try to push China to have me leave and three, I am an a**hole. This emo's for me
Ok, strong willed dude, maybe you should change your avatar, I see Sam and Sara, was thinking boy, girl or a Pat, still, your comments are typically to the point, nice posts
Samsara:
Thanks.
Samsara is the cycle of life, death and rebirth in Buddhism and Hindu. I'm rational and non-religious, but I like the word.
I don't feel any particular need to denote maleness in my avatar. I am no more a scantily clad woman who hangs out in cathedrals than MissA is a shark.
As to expressing my views, I tend to disagree with most of the comments above. I feel despair and frustration for all people who think there are topics that we shouldn't talk openly and honestly about. I won't be part of the CCP's obfuscation, or Chinese people's willful ignorance.
Samsara, you're NOT a scantily clad CGI pic??? Damn!
(actually, I'm surprised ppl didn't pick the religious connotation!)
I like the idea of 'not being a part of the CCP's obfuscation', though I don't (often ) deliberately get into those sort of discussions... and when I do, I point out the real history of things. People and governments the world (and history) over are pretty much the same... when put into those sorts of perspectives, people tend to listen a little better (though I'm certain the ignorance remains!)
I will discuss these topics within reason but only with friends. But many times it like beating a dead horse as most have no knowledge of (like what happened in 89) or have completely propagated unbending opinions on the matter.
Before coming here I was very outspoken in my political views including human rights and it was hard for me to keep my mouth shut here in the beginning but within a few months I learned to suppress those urges for the sake of my sanity and potential safety.
I only know 1 person here who knows about 89 and as an experiment he asked about 100 people he knew on the anniversary if they knew what happened 24 years ago and NONE of them had a clue...so there you go.
You guys figured out I'm not really a shark!? Damn, might need to find a new animal... Samsara, you sound exactly like my boyfriend in this regard, and his inability to compromise caused him huge problems. I've always found the softly, softly approach to work better than the sledge-hammer approach, but then you've got to know when to stick your ground or else you end up being a waste of space who stands for nothing and achieves nothing. It's a very difficult balancing act.
Living in China is not easy. When living in complicated countries I've always tried to let the small shit slide and then stand my ground, and explain my perspective, on things that are REALLY important to me.
Samsara:
I'm not stand-offish or combative in my everyday interactions.
Just in discussions, I won't tone down my opinion on things I care about (ideological control is one of them). I find having my opinions restricted quite an indignity. Wrong country for that, I know! In the West, if I'm in a room full of Christian homophobes, it won't change my stance on gay marriage, or stop me from stating it.
I don't bring up sensitive topics just so I can gloat over my own superior understanding (I have much better things to do with my time than be a prick), but if someone says "China liberated Tibet", I will question the word "liberated".
"Never talk about politics or religion" is a quote for people who want to be ideologically enslaved.
GuilinRaf:
You are not a shark?
Dang! I really AM a beer drinking bull (who cross dresses as a cow)...
Never shy away from the truth no matter how much difficulty it might bring.
The truth is the truth.
I try to answer any questions and give my opinion as honestly as possible. If I did not I would feel like a charlatan, a fraud and a coward.
God DAMN Samsara you used one of the 'T' words and got answer of the day! Was the pig having a BCD? Good response, though.
Whenever local friends begin on a potentially sensitive topic, I close my eyes and cover my ears and shout 'stop! Stop!' I then run away and hide so they can't find me and force me to give an opinion.
I have fallen over and hurt myself a few times doing this.
NOTE: keep your eyes open before you run
I do not compromise, and I do not back down. This is why I'm ALWAYS getting into trouble in China. If you want to maintain a peaceful life here, don't do what I do. I am always going too far.
Waste of time and words. Just smile and wave. "Ignorance is a bliss." According to the "Law of Universe" I use my days here with a positive insight. That is what I learned to do. It is just like a model walking at the ramp of "Paris Fashion Show." Hence, there is no need to go too far here and I haven't gone. No anger, No debate, Nur Calmness.
the longer you stay here, the faster you learn its more about saving your energy and sanity than winning a “debate”. it also helps with possibly going too far in arguments.