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Q: do you think China will become increasingly liberal?
I think younger Chinese in their 20s and university educated are far more open-minded and liberal compared to those in their 50s.It is really noticeable. Westernization and internet resources have had a drastic effect. I dont think i ve ever met a young person who thought banning google is a good thing to do. Therefore as the younger generation gets older and takes the reigns of power, china might well become a more liberal country. Or do young people just get more conservative as they get Older?
The young people who have a tangible experience of the censoring are few. For example, it's until my wife started to live with me that she saw that quite a few things were censored. Like most Mainlanders, she does not use many websites that are blocked, she does not read newspaper I read, she has a limited knowledge of history, etc. We speak of someone who went to university ! And in that minority, the fraction that saw the extent of censorship react by shrugging and content itself with what is available. To them, anything political is completely outside of their sphere of interest and influence. Politics belong to a tiny group of people, the others are strongly invited to work, shut-up and are welcome to look away or applauded. Unhappy ? Maybe 5 minutes a week when watching the news, when moving the eyes away from their WeChat session.
Let's summarize
* Only a fraction of young Mainlanders are aware of the extent of the censorship
* Within that fraction, a tiny fraction is revolted, resignation is the large majority. It's politics, politics does not belong to the common people.
* Within the revolted fraction, the fraction that think they can do something about is itself tiny. Leaving the country is far less troublesome, and avoiding troubles rather than facing them is a deep cultural bias here.
I believe it's *the* great victory of the CCP, far more than the "economic miracle".
Burak43:
This. I sometimes ask about what they think of the censorship, not to get a debate started, but more to see how they react. Usually they answer something "I can't do anything about it, so I don't think about it".
I know it's a cliche comparing stuff to 1984, but c'mon...
As I see it in my country, people do tend to move from left to right as they age. I see no reason why there wouldn't be a similar shift in the Chinese population.
And. When people are born, we are all equal, then some get subjected to Chinese parenting and thus gets pretty screwed up and therefore I would think more likely to frown at establishment, but thanks to Chinese parenting, they have no means of actually expressing their discontent, so they go they way of a leaky balloon and fizzle away.
For actual insight, read here.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-hundred-year-marathon-excerpt-2015-2?r=US
andy74rc:
"As I see it in my country, people do tend to move from left to right as they age..."
It's called experience.
royceH:
I seem to be moving the other way as time goes by.
Right wing (moderate) ideology seems too simplistic to me now. Life isn't as black and white as I used to believe.
Not all the people live in the same paradigm and the older I get the more I see the need to help those who can't help themselves.
So I would put myself a little left of centre these days. Still some way right of Scotty though.
Burak43:
left =/= liberal. Not in the true sense of the word liberal at least.
Scandinavian:
the word "Liberal" means different things in different parts of the world. But in politics it would be the opposing thing to "conservative" wouldn't it? I actually don't know what "Liberal" means in the China context. Does it mean people are more positive to democracy or just more relaxed as to what the CCP dictates ? (e.g. Deng Xiao Peng could be considered a liberal and Xi Jinping a conservative, among the commie nutters)
The young people who have a tangible experience of the censoring are few. For example, it's until my wife started to live with me that she saw that quite a few things were censored. Like most Mainlanders, she does not use many websites that are blocked, she does not read newspaper I read, she has a limited knowledge of history, etc. We speak of someone who went to university ! And in that minority, the fraction that saw the extent of censorship react by shrugging and content itself with what is available. To them, anything political is completely outside of their sphere of interest and influence. Politics belong to a tiny group of people, the others are strongly invited to work, shut-up and are welcome to look away or applauded. Unhappy ? Maybe 5 minutes a week when watching the news, when moving the eyes away from their WeChat session.
Let's summarize
* Only a fraction of young Mainlanders are aware of the extent of the censorship
* Within that fraction, a tiny fraction is revolted, resignation is the large majority. It's politics, politics does not belong to the common people.
* Within the revolted fraction, the fraction that think they can do something about is itself tiny. Leaving the country is far less troublesome, and avoiding troubles rather than facing them is a deep cultural bias here.
I believe it's *the* great victory of the CCP, far more than the "economic miracle".
Burak43:
This. I sometimes ask about what they think of the censorship, not to get a debate started, but more to see how they react. Usually they answer something "I can't do anything about it, so I don't think about it".
I know it's a cliche comparing stuff to 1984, but c'mon...
Being open minded is not westernization. With information comes the need to be free. In North Korea, they are taught that their leader has special magical powers and abilities. And they believe this even as they study engineering and sciences. If they had the correct information they would not allow themselves to be controlled by that maniac.
In China, they know the truth will lead to the end of the CCP's reign. Which is exactly why they are looking to completely block information from outside sources. It is human nature to want to control your own life. It is human nature to sacrifice control of your own life out of fear. ear that the CCP has been manufacturing for the last 60 years.
Scandinavian:
I can recommend the movie "The Interview"
I agree completely. But remember that science is free of opinion. You can teach a person to do math without teaching a person to question where there is no food. True open mindedness comes from teaching to ask "Why?" at everything. (or perhaps more to the fact, not preventing asking "why?")
Chinese youth are only liberal for what arranges them. They are liberal when it comes to the censorship so they can make more money using the internet or simply masturbate themselves on internet porn.
When it comes to relationships and casual sex, they are more liberal, I meet more Chinese ladies in their early 20s who have had 2 or 3 boyfriends and are not virgin anymore, it was a rarity even 5 years ago. On the other hand they are very conservative, more than older Chinese, when it comes to cross-cultural relationships, they are the generation that has 40 millions more men than women so they don't accept to see young Chinese women with foreign men and they can become violent if they see it when they are with their friends.
Sorry but it pisses me off when they blame us foreigners for dating Chinese women. Most of you here are older so you may not have to deal with this phenomenon. Their own parents are responsible for killing baby girls, so they should blame it on them, not on foreigners for "stealing Chinese women from Chinese men".
I mean eventually in the sense that progress is inevitable and that there is (probably) an end of history.
But its further away than a generation or so. Remember that most of the Chinese that we expats run across tend to be urban, and that most of us have no idea what young Chinese out in the boondocks might think about any given issue.
No, I don't believe China will become more liberal. I believe China will become more closed.
They just love to push the (so called) failed multiculturalism barrow and use it to strengthen their own beliefs of superiority (and isn't that mindset one of the laughs of the century!) and us v them.
I reckon they hate the sight of foreigners in their glorious shit hole and it wouldn't take much for them to take to the streets to support a pure Han China.
As the realisation dawns on the CCP that the world largely thinks of China as a joke and a disgrace, and somewhere definitely not to be trusted, they will move quickly to shut the place down before the average Zhou gets wind of it.
But, counter to this is the fact that there's a lot of underdeveloped countries out there who are now beholden to China. A lot of them.
In fact, it's a worry if you think about it. What will these countries do when China tells them it's pay day?
I think I'd be better served working on my escape plan than to just keep looking out the window and waiting until it's beer o'clock.
