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Q: Do you think Chinese are ashamed of obtaining things through guanxi and not skill?
Guanxi's the culture. Not much to say about it. But behind all that, do you think they feel guilty/ashamed/self-conscious/worthless about obtaining things they didn't really deserve or merit?
Not at all. Guanxi is almost always the first go-to for getting things done. Skill is far down the list for some folks.
There is skill in getting something for nothing, gain face.
Unfortunately, it is not just a "Chinese Thing". We have the very same concept in Puerto Rico, except that in Spanish we call it "pala" or shovel. But it works exactly the same.
Do we call it nepotism in the west?
crimochina:
let me show you how to do your job wumao, and actually answer the question.
some people will feel shame if they think they did not get the job through their qualifications or ability. some will not feel any shame at all. chinese are the same as any people. My teacher was from USA he was explaining nepotism and told of a managers son who was given a position in the company . Although he was given the job based on his father working for the company. this man still worked very hard to prove himself, and he earned the respect of his co workers. my teacher compared this with a stock broker who worked at a financial firm. His father was on the board and gave his son a job. he was lazy and a drunk. his numbers were awful. but still he kept his even when the finacial crisis hit america. other more qualified brokers were let go. one felt shame but responded by being a hard working. the other felt no shame, bad guy.
even wumaos are incompetent. you see how easy that was? smooth.
that post would never receive a WUMAO FAIL!. because it addressed the question and was backed by logical reasoning.
LOKE:
the west is not a country. pick a country and compare nepotism (hiring of family members over qualified individuals) with guangxi, giving friends and family government jobs. (in the US we have the civil service exams which means only a small percent jobs goes to buddies or friends in the gov)
within some unions there can be a lot of corruption and hiring exclusively of buddies/ family of union members. Many years ago i wanted to quit school and work on the docks but you needed to be a member of the union . to be a member of the union a union member had to (i can't remember the word, but recommend you) nominate you (it is funny after typing i did not remember the word i suddenly remembered the word. i need codfee). depending on where you live , you may have a lot or a little of the buddy system. but it is never the norm. in china it is the norm. it seriously effects the daily lives job seekers.
it is not really hard to make a valid argument. WUMAO FAIL!!!!
this is why it is so easy to identify a wumao, they spew mindless incoherent propaganda drivel. my advice for the wumao program. hire me at 1,000,000rmb(per year) for 2 years. i will teach your wumaos how to address specific points in an argument with actual facts. I will teach your wumaos how to findout what is really happening in america and other countries. real information about daily life (you can't google real life experience) . I will teach your wumaos how to engage in an intelligent discussion about china (flaws and positive aspects) . Understand i do not want to interfere with wumaos doing their job, but it is insulting to have people claim to be from a country they know nothing about (or claim to be from another country period) . Have your wumaos admit to being chinese. America is not China, we welcome open intelligent discussion about our govt and country with anyone. I am willing to bet 90% of the countries not named china are the same. Also it hurts my brain that you wumaos try to feed me BS, "why doesn't china have graffiti?", "do we call it nepotism in the west?" you are comparing the small instances of nepotism which affect little or no one with china guangxi where people are allowed to guangxi better grades. people are allowed to guangxi scholarships over the student who had the highest scores. this is their everyday life.
the reason why it is so easy to point out a wumao is because what you posts holds no logic. forward my offer up to your superiors and i can teach you how to be a convincing wumao. you would never see "WUMAO FAIL!" AGAIN
except for now . WUMAO FAIL FAIL FAIL! WUMAO FAIL! TRY AGAIN!
crimochina:
i just realized it's guanxi , sorry to a very nice province.
I think that Guanxi is more complex than just skill vs. connections. According to what I've read, the whole concept of guanxi started out as a way of getting things done because the bureaucratic red tape was so bad that one had to have it to get anything done. To a certain degree it might still be necessary (I can't really think of a situation at the moment), while I believe that nepotism/pala/guanxi should eventually decrease, I do see the practicality in having it too.
are "westerners" ashamed of gaining position in China, because of the fact, that are "westerners"? 
____________
guanxi is a little different then nepotism... as far as I see.
sure, I saw many examples of people who gained something by a guanxi, but many of them have to proof, that they worth it... for example by good work on the position they obtained.
social and historical context of guanxi is far different then "our" nepotism, like mowenting said above..
nevermind:
Most westerners with good jobs in China got them because they have skills, not simply because they are westerners, though bitter Chinese staff hate to admit it.
I suggest that many (maybe most?) are far more proud of clever 'guangxi' skills (they regard as a skill) than they are of actual substantial skills,
and,
Not only that but think you must be stupid or making excuses for NOT being able to match 'guangxi' skills. Aren't you embarrassed you cannot use it as well as them?
jknox00 has it right. It goes against everything I believe in but.........Even I would use "the guanxi" when necessary. I am interested if others have used it. I mean u guys that are not Chinese.
I suppose we can call it "Knowing how to play Ball"
By that I mean...Knowing that if I get screwed I have "friends" who will help me.
Ashamed? How can they be ashamed of something they are taught from a young age that it's the way to get things done?
I see guanxi (like many customs in China) as a form of control. It's a part of China lifestyle I really hate. It has lowered the quality and integrity of craftmanship and service by rewarding corruption and devaluing skill. It is the reason why I will never do business with the Chinese and I will never trust their workers. If there is nothing to gain from simple hard work and experience, how can this country hope to compete with the superpowers?
It depends on the job; if someone gets a position as a paramedic and all they're qualified to do is stack paper cups, i'm sure they would be aware and feel suitably ashamed. But for most jobs, nooo, not at all. Neither would I.
