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anonymous
Q: Do you think Chinese people underestimate the Mandarin language ability of foreigners?
I ask this because I speak and read Chinese pretty well. I just started a new job and a girl I work with is pretty good at English but we mostly use Mandarin in discussion. My manager knows we use Mandarin to communicate. My manager asked her to translate a document from Chinese to English, and then hand me polish the Chinglish to English. That probably took longer than me just doing the direct chinese to english translation. My manager's reasoning was that she thought foreigner's just study pinyin for speaking and don't bother with the characters because they are too difficult.
That makes perfect sense in your case. Your manager is right, very few foreigners who speak fluently know how to read/write Chinese.
However, I have run into many situations where I speak to someone in Mandarin and they just give me a blank stare (oooh, the monkey can speak) and refuse to acknowledge that anyone non-Chinese can speak Mandarin.
Some Chinese like to tell themselves that all Chinese speak perfect English, and it is impossible for a foreigner to even understand something as sublimely Chinese as "你好".
These are not typically folks who will ever be reasoned with, by a Chinese or by a foreigner, so it's best to let them live in their little 梦境.
Yes, and I'm tired of asking for chopsticks in mandarin and getting "you can use chopsticks!?" As a response. I JUST SPOKE YOUR LANGUAGE, DICKHEAD. THAT'S FAR MORE DIFFICULT!
Friend of mine's mom is Chinese but he looks western. Grew up in Beijing, yet sometimes when we leave Beijing, some poeple cannot understand him. they just stare at him, look at their friends and say "ting budong". Naturally, Mike gets annoyed and really lays into them. THEN they are surprised that the "foreinger" can speak chinese!
My hypothesiss: they are so used to not believing that some can speak the language, that even when confronted with the evidence it take s a moment to "register".
Not only do they assume that foreigners cannot speak Mandarin, but they assume that since you must not understand them, you also cannot see them! So in addition to talking about you, they gesture about you! And there's no way that you can possibly speak Mandarin and understand them! Which means there's no way you can see them or their gestures! Which makes what they are doing perfectly okay, and if you don't like it then you obviously don't understand Chinese culture!
They think you can't so they switch off and don't listen. Then they know you can't even if you can.
The worst is then someone who thinks they know English intervenes and really complicates a very simple situation! Good intentions but what a mess.
I do want to point out that even if you are proficient, that is not the norm. I've lived here for almost a year, and still don't understand 95% of what is said, much less what is written.
Obviously it is stupid to keep the assumption after displaying proficiency.
And yes, I think anyone with any intention of visiting China has learned to use chopsticks, if not at home, than within 2 days of being here.
I think you actually overestimate your language skills. Chinese characters are too difficult for you to master it.You just feel very OK with it but it's not the truth.
nevermind:
Maybe you can't do it. But I know a number of foreigners, white ones, who are perfectly fine with Characters. I know one guy who translates the opposite way for a living and he didn't speak a word of Chinese until his graduate degree. If you study you can do it. I learned 50 characters back to front in a month once just sitting at my desk at work and repeating them.
Shining_brow:
That depends on your definition of 'master'. If you don't start with the language from a very young age, you won't master it - simple! Just as Blodamon has demonstrated - the English on this post is very good, but it isn't 'perfect' and thus, not 'mastered'. IFF, of course, 'master' = 'native level' (and not, 'near native', or 'excellent' or similar).
The people I have run into don't underestimate me, but then again, I don't speak much Mandarin. When I say something in Mandarin, they get really excited, it's funny. Actually, one of my friends overestimates my ability. She knows I can read some characters, so she thinks I can read more than I really can. I have to remind her that I only know a few characters.
Foreigners speaking, reading and writing Chinese is a fairly recent phenomenon, compared to Chinese migrating overseas and learning. As a result there just aren't as many foreigners who can master the Chinese language yet (comparatively) and they (Chinese people) need more time to get used to this influx of Chinese speaking foreigners. Let's not forget that they were still shut off from the world just over 30 years ago.
Yes, sometimes I have this issue -- but I blame it on the foreigners too. Almost all of you expats are mutes in this country, what should the Chinese expect ?
nevermind:
Where do you live? Most expats I know speak chinese enough to have a conversation at the minimum
I find that I often overestimate the Mandarin ability of local Chinese where ever I go. That's mostly because of regional dialects and local languages thrown in, but I've seen 2 "Mandarin speakers" have to resort to either writing everything down or speak English to communicate.
