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Q: Do you think religious zealots should be preaching and trying to convert people at English Corners?
First, I admit to being a Christian myself but only because I was born into a Christian family. I am no fanatic but believe Jesus was teaching a good and ethical way to live. My beef is the loud, holier-than-thou evangelists that have invaded the English Corner at Renmin University and force their ideas on people who only go there to 1) practice their English, 2) Make some foreign friends, 3) Meet an interesting partner. But these 4 of 5 guys with loudspeakers and iPads annoy the shit out of me and many others. Once or twice the campus security ran them off and then posted signs that say "Religious Activities Prohibited".
Now before you hit that thumbs down button...I am all in favor of freedom of speech, BUT these morons don't let anyone talk or even ask questions! They are on a mission to lecture and prostelyze . I joined in the group one night and watched a young curious girl ask 5 times how this preacher can explain evolution, fossils, various races, etc. and Robert (the preacher) just ignored her. I finally interrupted him and asked him why he was ignoring the hard questions this girl was posing and he just glared at me and said I was not welcome there! I have been visiting that EC since 2006 - 4 years before the missionaries appeared. The kids are even told they will go to hell when they die if they ignore him since he was sent "by God" to "deliver a special message." Anyway, I am not a snitch, but these naive students are being cultivated like a herd of sheep using fear. What say you all?
Forcing religion on anyone and making threats of eternal damnation is crap. Any logical person can see through the lies they preach. It sounds like this person might be looking for young inpressional minds to join his cult! I was raised Christian and have my own beliefs, but taking advantage of naive students is a low-blow. In the words of George Carlin,
- "Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
- But He loves you! He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!"
I think I'll call in and say hello next time I'm in Beijing.
lokethebloke:
Call into (visit) the English Club. Sorry, English english. I just love asking questions. Once invited some Jehova's witnesses in for a 'chat' - they never came back!
You're basically providing personal information on someone you disagree with. Because of this, your credibility is supect and it seems like you have a hidden agenda here. I wonder if you're even providing the full story. You've posted the same tale under multiple accounts, and each time you provide personal information on this guy. The last time, you were an atheist. Now you're a "Christian"?
With that said, I don't care if they are. If they learn enough English, and take it home and think about it, perhaps they'll be able to ask questions later to people who don't ignore them. They can hear words, and perhaps remember how to pronounce them correctly.
I'm not really a religious person at all, but I'm all for freedom of speech and religion (and trust me, I often deride religion), even if another country isn't. I consider it a treasonous betrayal of American values to try and "expose," or have these people deported and/or incarcerated. That honestly seems like your intention here. You give way too many details on how to "find" this man.
"Anyway, I am not a snitch" actually, you are. Every time you make this post, you're snitching.
It's one thing if you disagree. It's another thing if you start providing information on them. I have been in many disagreements, but I never expose anyone's identity unless they're doing something disgusting, such as rape/molestation.
They're not hurting anyone there, are they? People are free to agree or disagree, believe, or disbelieve. This is their choice. Belief is a CHOICE. If someone chooses to become a believer in something, I might disagree, but it's their choice.
If, as you say, they are just ignoring people and telling you that you're not welcome because of your disagreements, then I doubt people will even believe them. They'll start to see through it sooner or later. Right now, I think those people are practicing their listening comprehension, etc.
Again, I honestly don't believe you: religious acts such as this get people deported, yet in your eyes it continues to happen over and over, and over. I think you have a hidden agenda here.
My question is whether or not these religious fanatics are Chinese citizens or foreigners temporarily domiciled in China. If they are not Chinese, they really have no business going about to try to save the world. And frankly, it's a deportable offense for a foreigner to engage in those kind of activities.
King_Of_Hearts:
All three times that I went three it was the foreign missionaries. I recall 4 guys and a girl - all in their late thirties or early forties.
i hate people who force their beliefs on others. it just goes to show they themselves have a closed mind and don't respect others beliefs. why should i respect your beliefs if you don't respect mine?
i hate people who force their beliefs on others. it just goes to show they themselves have a closed mind and don't respect others beliefs. why should i respect your beliefs if you don't respect mine?
Didnt you post this before?
诸葛亮:
Yes, on his other account, Frankly_Speaking.
It's funny how on one account, he professes to be against any and all censorship, but is actively out to censor someone else for their beliefs. On his other account, he's an atheist. On this account, he's a "Christian."
Looks like I was right about his lack of credibility. It's all blown up in his face now.
mArtiAn:
What makes you so sure he's got more than one account (or is even a 'he')? I've had this 'accusations of multiples crap' up the kazoo, and i'm telling you; you don't know diddly squat about who's got what accounts, believe me.
Nobody forces anyone to listen to another so if those students sit/stand there like brain-dead sponges absorbing the BS, they do so by their own choice. Likewise those who don't want to listen to the propaganda can merely walk away. But the part about the loudspeakers would piss me off, especially if I was trying to talk with someone else and we are getting drowned out by some Jesus freak. It all comes down to mutual respect I suppose. And I don't think OP is a snitch unless he were to actually call in the cops. We all rant here about the crap that annoys us most. Good night all.
诸葛亮:
The problem is that he's giving out personal details and information, plus he's proven his dishonesty many times already. He has an agenda to push, and the truth isn't part of it.
Personally I say get your own bull-horn and have some fun. I'd be up there next to him talking to everyone about finding salvation in the collective works of Penthouse magazine. Call this guy out as much as you can. I used to have a 'Smoke Crack and Worship Satan' t-shirt (i'm such a revolutionary, I know) but if I lived there i'd be printing them myself and selling them half price. I can't stand these Bible bashing bastards telling people what to believe. I'm willing to respect anyone's beliefs but push them in my face and i'll stick them up your arse. Go and piss on their parade.
981977405:
A little bit strong but essentially a very on-the-mark answer IMHO.
lokethebloke:
And you're telling me to mellow!!
I do agree with every word you've written, apart from the swearing bit of course.
Annon and don't forget dan dan dan.
mArtiAn:
Yeh, i'm a sweary bastard, I know. Can't fucking help myself.
I think it's wrong. You are getting them there under false pretenses. Plus, you are also putting them at an element of risk as Christians aren't allowed to freely worship.
I didn't think hell existed in the bible. My personal believe is the more religious a person is the more neurotic. Clue X-files. Mulder: " Scully I see no evidence that he walked on water. Plausible denial, hard to prove without foot prints"
Frankly_Speaking:
Seriously Ted, what do you think about this issue?
First of all, why don't you drop the "zealots" term? Second, I get tired like I'm sure other foreign expats do of the LOUDMOUTH Chinese in many other places! :( I've read several postings on this website related to LOUD and INCONSIDERATE Chinese in apartment buildings.
Frankly_Speaking:
Lar... this is not about the people being Chinese, American or from Mars. This is about trying to convert people to a religion in a public place and doing it so loudly that it distracts the people who went there for the intended purpose of learning and practicing their English. The best analogy is the street beggar who stands in your way or holds your coat until you cough up a dollar. And if you take the time to go to Renmin University any Friday night you will see that the word "zealot" is correctly used here in the original post.
I think Church and private Bible Study groups are the right venue - NOT English corners - UNLESS the Chinese students bring up the subject. But I have been to Renmin University on a Friday night and I know exactly how annoying that non-stop preaching becomes. To make it worse they come in groups of 5-6 missionaries who offer to the kids "Come with me and let me pray for you!" Since most Chinese kids never prayed before, they are curious as hell and expect some cool ritual - so they follow these guys like the pie piper. Thankfully that experience kept me from returning there again. And frankly, the term "zealot" is appropriate here. I've been there and the behavior of thoses guys is in fact "zealous". I guess if I was the OP I would have used the term "crazed, rude, fanatical evangelist zealots" Go there next Friday night and see for yourself.
I think "zealot" is a good way to describe people who try to impose their shit on others whether it is some MLMer or a religious freak. If the shoe fits...
Freedom of speech is a great thing that China needs more of. The more I think about it the more I think those preachers are probably digging their own graves. I mean those kids may be naive, but they are not stupid. Sooner or later they will get to the hard questions about evolution and contradictions in the Bible and all the stuff Hugh pointed out at this link...
The kids will figure it out for themselves and maybe learn a lesson about gullibility and motives. Let the zealots blast away and sooner or later their noise will be falling on deaf ears.
We have been running an English club since 2008 at Renmin and we never allow "preaching" although we talk about religious subjects from time to time. If someone pulls out a bible and tries to corner someone we direct them to take it elsewhere in private. Now that I reflect on this, I have never seen a Jew, Muslim, Buddhist nor Hindu ever try to convert someone in public. I think only the Christians and Jehovah Witness folks do this.
King_Of_Hearts:
I think you handle it correctly. But at English Corner there are no "Moderators" or anyone in charge - at least not the 3 times I went there.
Hey OP - Do you know what Church or group these people are with? If so you can go t their Church worship services and start giving loud English lessons and when someone complains tell them you are on a mission from God to make all Chinese bi-lingual. Maybe they will get the hint!
King of Hearts that is cruel, evil, but a great idea! That would surely send a signal and maybe the church leaders would put a leash on their attack dogs. I am also a Christian but I think these guys (and I have seen them along with the girl) who try to cram their beliefs down the throat of anyone within fifty feet of them. And I agree with Snoopy - the term "zealot" is exactly what these people come across as.
Question... What difference does it make if the preachers are American, Chinese, or Greek? Pushing religion in a public place to people who did not come there for that is unwelcome bullshit in my opinion. The race /nationality thing has nothing to do with it in my opinion. Gotta go - Mr. Ed will be on soon.
