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Q: does anyone in xinjiang know exactly what "oppressive measures" the government takes there?
Most foreign articles will throw in jabs at China no matter how horrible the event. These go so far as to passive aggressively blame China for terrorist attacks because the government is too oppressive. Now im certainly not a commie but i also know western press has an agenda as always. And from living here, I do not find China to be an opressive place in the least.
But i have never lived or even been to xinjiang, and i have met many ethbic minorities from the region here and the hatred is real. So could anyone who has been there or preferably live there explain how these people are oppressed? Examples? I cant imagine anything that would warrent violence or terrorism but there certainly seems to be empathy from these people fron the foreign press.
Blaming china for those attacks are bullshit and retarded. No matter how oppressive and shitty Chinese government are there are no justification for retarded fucked up religious fanatics hurting innocent random people. If those morons got brain and balls they will attack the government higher ups instead of commoners. Same thing with the fanatics from Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. They are just cowardly piece of shit that doesn't deserve to live.
Robk:
Agreed. The took out old fruit and vegetable vendors for god sakes! Just selling their stuff on the side of the road early in the morning. What could possibly justify that?
Weak, cowards... I hope the CCP wipes them all out.
DrMonkey:
You don't see a vicious circle there ? Violence to answer to violence, without any attempt for one side to understand the motive of the other side ? Just policing around without addressing the root of the problem, well, look at Irak or Afghanistan... You can kill the angry guys, if the place is *breeding* them, it will come back again, again and again.
liantohusin:
I completely agree with what you said, "Just policing around without addressing the root of the problem". What I said here is my feeling towards those crazy fanatics, but I do understand only violence isn't enough you also need to try to resolve the problem I think there was a similar topic like this and I stated that to solve this kind of stuff you not only need to provide security and resolve other matters such as prosperity and development, basically lifting their living standards and their rights.
If I have a power like maybe superpower to detect the evil guys and then just by thinking it they will suddenly die like flies i will do it, but this is the real world I can't do that. My point on this post is that blaming for China, America, or maybe even the British empire is bullshit. Those fanatics hurt innocent people not their "evil enemy" like the government. For example that boko haram shit, the asshole on that video says "god tell me to kill women" its just bullshit excuse. They do that because they are fucked up on the head.
As for my PoV about resolving the matters other than by violence/security its too long to type again, I don't want to make a wall of text. Maybe you can check my post history or smth. I know things isn't that simple, we can't solve problems like this just by brute force we also need other methods, but again IMO blaming china for those attacks are retarded.
I gave your question an up-vote Mike.
I have never been there, so my comments general rather than specific. I may go one day though, when RoyceH invites me for a beer 
I get fed up with the way foreign press reports on Chinese issues. It's almost always negative. And I think it helps to contribute to the feeling of superiority many foreigners arrive here with.
Most foreign reporters quote Xinhua word for word, then add a few comments from selected posts on Weibo.
Imagine if they done that in the west...quoted facebook comments as a news source.
Then they finish their reporting by saying reports are restricted.
Is that really true, or are the journalists just too lazy to leave their western enclaves in Beijing?
ScotsAlan:
Just thought I would add. A popular poster from that very region is tonight posting on these very forums
.
Just goes to show. The phone lines have not been cut, the signals have not been jammed, and every person is not looking at at a gun barrel.
The western press would have everyone think otherwise.
royceH:
Scotty...consider yourself invited! The beer out here is Wusu and it's no worse than Tsingtao.
Before you come please make the effort to watch Billy Jack. As you're a self confessed film buff I'm keen to hear your critique.
I've been in Xinjiang last year, during the summer, travelling around with my wife. Not an organized tour, just ourselves wandering around. Let me tell you what I saw in Turpan, just by strolling on the main streets & roads, in 2 days (we stayed longer in Xinjiang, it's just a representative sample)
* Hans civilians walking with military grabs, by patrols of 3 or 4 people, each with 1.5 meters, about 5cm diameter wooden stick.
* Lots of special forces patrolling, very professional. They had modern vehicles, submachine guns, pump-action rifles.
* Large paintings on the walls, with Hu Jin Tao face as the sun in the sky, explaining in pictures that the Uighur can get money by selling grape, should send their kid to school and their life will be awesome, super happy, etc. In the small towns around the city, there was loudspeakers, a soft woman voice speaking in Uighur. The loudspeakers were running all day.
* All city main access have check-points, with at least 6 PLA soldiers, large concrete blocks and metal grids. There were several soldiers on duty with assault rifles, finger close to the trigger. There was special police force guys with them, doing the paper checking and talking. Some special police force where looking like Uighur people.
* At one check-point, all passengers have to show their papers. 2 guys missed their papers, it took 30 minutes before the bus moved again. The 2 guys stayed behind.
* In a rather decrepit Uighur district of Turpan, I saw discarded syringes in the dust. About 15 minutes by walk for Turpan museum (which is free and very good).
* When walking to some famous mosque, we saw a police car rushing inside a small dusty road... and just appear again a bit further on the main road. The car stopped suddenly, a door opened, a guy went out the car swift like a cat, caught an Uighur guy on the side the road, blocked his arms, and pushed in the car. The car went away, while some Uighur were shouting angrily at them. All happened in less than 1 minute.
* Uighurs were not looking very kindly at my wife (Han) when we went around to buy food and water, but those people very nice with me.
* I saw this scene. A Han tourist was eating some chicken tight cooked on the street by an Uighur. She threw the bones on the floor while eating. The cook angrily showed her the garbage, telling her that's were the bones go, not on the floor. The woman looked at the guy incredulously. The guy was really unhappy.
And then, there are all the check-points we saw again, the patrols, and what people told us while hitch-hiking our way around.
ScotsAlan:
Seems to be a bit like Northern Ireland not so long ago.
Thanks for the honest report Dr M.
mike695ca:
Hey thanks alot! I wouldnt never doubt that security isnt super tight. But im looking for reasons why! I hear talks of religious freedoms being taken away yet on the other hand the muslims are more.....muslimy than ever. Perhaps they want a bigger piece of the resource pie? Yet thats not what they complain about. I would understand if they feal under represented and just want to seperate but im looking for first hand knowledge of proof of the accusations. Thats all. I understand suffocating security if the threat is real. And if it is, then its deserved and needed. So i guess the question is, which came first? The bombs or the suppression? And what exactly was the oppression that started it?
royceH:
Doc, you really hitchhiked around Xinjiang?? If so, you are formidable!
Could it be that you were in Turpan just after the knife attacks last year?
DrMonkey:
@ScotsAlan I would be more tempted to draw a parallel with French Algeria. The place does not feels like China *AT ALL*. The people looks like Turkmen people, the way of life is widely different, the rhythm of life is too, language is completely different, not even the same family of languages. Talking with some Hans around, most of them arrived there one or two generation ago. Turpan was very quiet, but in a very, very tense and heavy atmosphere.
@mike695ca Talking with Uighur was limited to buying food and water. So anything I'm going to say is my own interpretation, from my own knowledge, which might be flawed. 50 years ago, Uighurs were there pretty much by themselves, living like they always did for long time. Of course, thanks to ages old business, some Hans were hanging around. Fast forward to now. Lots of Hans more live there, they definitely looks like transplanted trees here, and they run the place. Government extract the resources and redistribute the wealth as it suits it. Yes, there are schools and hospitals, yes, they buy what the Uighurs grow at a guaranteed price. Like in French Algeria... But they never have a say on anything of this, they have to be happy with it, without any alternative, without choice. If they were filthy rich with world-class opportunities, I guess that might work. But most of them are on the same level of poverty as Ganxu or Guizhou farmers. At best, they can dream the Chinese Dream. Sure, Uighur have the same lot as your average Han (well, I heard of employment and police discrimination). But culturally, they are not shy about rebelling and pointing out lack of choice, injustice, etc. unlike your average Han that will shut-up and suck it up. Compose that with the wide cultural difference, the poverty, the abject lack of hope that the Chinese Dream is for most countryside Chinese is anyway, and the imported Han people. It's a breeding ground for angry people who will use blind violence to make a point. After a few years of this, when the only answer is violence in return, then violence become its own justification. Again, I see a parallel with French Algeria and the FLN movement.
@royceH It wasn't our main mean of transportation ^^ But in a couple of occasions, while we were waiting for a bus, cars stopped and proposed us a ride, for a (very reasonable) price. The buses are not exactly regular in the countryside/desert, so it looked like the common practice there. We never felt in danger, despite the tense atmosphere in the cities. Train stations are hell-holes, but the countryside villages are nice to bike around.
royceH:
Oh you're definitely right about that. And sometimes the drivers who stop and ask if you want a lift aren't 'black taxis' at all, but just kind ppl who want to help. I've accepted quite a few lifts like that.
I had in my mind a picture of you and your wife hanging by the side of a road with your thumb stuck out and waving a sign written in both Chinese and Turkic saying the name of your intended destination and that would've been something!
My favourite way of getting to Urumqi is by black taxi. The buses are too slow and if you ask me no more safe than anything else on the hwy and the new fast train is anything but. Same time as the slow bus. Cheaper, yes....crowded bad, yes.
Black taxi wins. But most ppl are afraid of them because... why, you ask? Because the majority of black taxi drivers are Uyghir and, as such (wrongly in my experience), not to be trusted.
This is just one aspect of the rich tapestry of life out here. It's all pretty cool....except for the bombs.
Just have a look at how they treat their second class citizens, then imagine what being the fourth or fifth class might be like.
What exactly is there for the locals? Being parked in "special minority areas" making bread and mutton sticks while the big companies are busy salvaging natural resources and bringing in all their shitty values with them (did you really expect any kind of respect)? Whould that make you happy if it were your backyard? Oh but yeah, ask any of your Han friends about this and listen to the brainwashing in action: " but they have so many advantages, for example they get 20% more points at the Gaokao, what on earth can they be complaining about, they are just being lazy and violent because they're muslims." Feels good to be a "minority citizen" heh. By the way, don't hope too much about landing a regular job in any eastern city. Just in case you wanted to play by the rules.
In no way I would justify and/or support any kind of attack or retaliation or any kind of violence whatsoever and from any side, but I can definitely see the kind of hate desperation can breed.
And I also see how it can be manipulated. Doesn't it look so goddamn convenient to lock down whole regions under "security threat" motives. I think it does. Especially when you are in full control of the storytelling and litteraly nothing can go wrong.
mike695ca:
Thanks anyways but i was looking for an UNBIASED first hand report, not an opinionated anti-china rant. Thats your opinion in every post. Anyways from my experience the threat usually arrives before the clampdown. Also china treats every minority as fifth class citizens. Yet the Koreans in dongbei dont blow shit up. Yunnan people dont seem to hate the han with such vigor , and tibetans might hate them but dont result to terrorism (generally speaking)
KimOnach:
This is indeed my opinion on this matter. My ground experience is limited, but I have had conversations with Uighurs friends, notably one nice guy, back in BJ a few years ago, he was looking to play by the book, learned mandarin and wanted a modest job, he did not even get hired as a receptionnist and the motive was always explained to him very directly.
Most of what I relate here is his point of view (the sentence on the Gaokao is the answer I got when I confronted Han friends to this), mixed with what I have read or seen in the press in more peaceful times (times where journalists could film relatively freely in the area). And a hinch of my sour rant.
You say other minorities don't violently attack, but I remember too clearly my time in Chengdu back in 2007/8, just before Tibet got completely locked down, and I can guarantee you it was exactly the same story back then: locals get violent and strike the Han "like braindead fanatics". All the way to Chengdu rumors of frantic monks attacking random people spread and police showed up everywhere. People were afraid of even sitting next to bold dudes in orange robes in buses. It WAS violent.
I live in Xinjiang. Been here for almost 2 years. I have travelled around a bit but not anywhere south of Urumqi. I've never seen anything like the good Dr has described above. The areas south west of Urumqi, out to Yining and down to Kashgar, are considered more culturally Uyghir than elsewhere but Uyghir people live all over Xinjiang. My small city is in the north west and approx 40% are Uyghir.
Uyghir ppl don't like Han and Han don't like Uyghir. But life goes on in an open and peaceful manner. I have friends from both groups.
Many Uyghirs feel they are oppressed due to the fact they have relatively poor paying jobs. The reason for this is they aren't fluent enough in Putonghua and don't have good enough academic qualifications. But those who do have these things are not prevented from gaining higher paying and more responsible positions. It's just that most don't.
Lack of proficiency in Chinese means doors are closed and for many this equals oppression.
In my city only 2 out of 12 middle schools now teach the Uyghir language. In a generation or so there will be few who can use it.
Han ppl generally have the view that Uyghirs are lazy spendthrifts who have no clue how to handle money.
I know this market where the bombs went off this morning and it's used by early morning shoppers who are of mixed ethnic groups. There's no chance there weren't Uyghir ppl there doing their business along side everyone else.
I have been talking to a Uyghir this evening and she was very angry about what has happened as it won't make her, or her family's, life any easier.
As I said in another post this evening about this....this is a step up from knife attacks and takes us into very dangerous territory.
I wonder what security measures await me tomorrow as I go about my business?
mike695ca:
Keep safe man. And thank you for taking the time to share your experiences. I think your posts are important in as they arent biased and show that even minorities find this horrible. A small percentage destroying it for everyone.
royceH:
Just remembered, a funny thing. On the way back from Urumqi on the bus last week we were stopped for an ID check by some bloke with a big gun. Well, I gave him my Australian drivers license instead of my passport and you should've seen the look on his face...priceless! He went out to discuss it with his mate and came and gave it back to me and moved on. My Chinese mate and I laughed a lot. Boring places, buses.
royceH:
Nothing different to see today. Rode my bike through the Uyghir part of town and they were doing their thing as usual....Fruit and nut stalls, freshly butchered beasts hanging from trees, breads, skewers, cool music....all as usual. And thank goodness for that.
And then I went to the downtown PSB...for a non Chinese looking person who didn't have a passport (they've bloody got it) it was like trying to get into Fort Knox.
If nothing else, life here is an adventure.
It's not just China, read any story about psycho-Muslim-jihadi-terrorist-scum throughout the world, and the report will inevitably passively-aggressively justify it by describing it as a "response to oppression". Two that come to mind are the Nairobi mall attacks (described as a "response to Kenyan military crackdown on Somali-based terrorist groups) and blaming Taliban attacks on US drone strikes of terrorist camps in NW Pakistan. I blame this on leftist PC indoctrination in the west; the media folks simply cannot associate a non-western Muslim being anything other than a victim.
My dad always said there doesn't have to be a good guy and a bad guy in every situation.
More often than that it's two groups of bad guys fighting over who gets to have the power to be worse. Western conflicts being no exception.
Of course islamic terrorism is fucking horrible (and islamic society pretty backwards and oppressive to the masses in general), and hurting innocents to get attention is never morally justifiable. Using religion to defend violence is slimy as hell, so yeah those people are awful.
And I'm sure China treats them really arrogantly like they treat everyone who is in a position of weakness. They aren't going to have the connections to get ahead so in a Han-dominated society the uighurs are going to be cut out.
Two groups of assholes.
The chinese have this exclusive culture that if you aren't blood chinese you can never really be a part of (and if you are you still need powerful connections to live OK)...so no frankly I wouldn't want my homeland beholden to them either.
The hardcore islamics believe they have the backing of God so that any atrocity they commit is fully OK and mandated by a higher power.
Fuck them both, I guess.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_people#Modern_era
Wikipedia has a snippet which might explain why Xinjiang people are attacking each other, not just Han Chinese:
"Uyghur identity remains fragmented, as some support a Pan-Islamic vision, exemplified by the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, while others support a Pan-Turkic vision, such as the East Turkestan Liberation Organization. A third group would like a "Uyghurstan" state, such as the East Turkestan independence movement. As a result, "[n]o Uyghur or East Turkestan group speaks for all Uyghurs, although it might claim to", and Uyghurs in each of these camps have committed violence against other Uyghurs who they think are too assimilated to Chinese or Russian society or are not religious enough."
I actually had a few Uyghur friends in China. They were all Muslims. From my experience, they weren't anti-China; they were very patriotic, but they all thought I was one of them, too.
Between my beard, and not using my left hand in their presence (didn't want to offend them), they actually thought I was one of them for a long while, and I led them on so I could learn more about them.
They'd give me phone calls like, "Praise and glory be to allah, it's good to see a Muslim friend from the Great Satan (United States) here in our China. *begins, and continues the rest of the conversation in Arabic*."
Me: Uhh... thanks? And, I can't speak Arabic, sorry.
Then one day I told them I'm a Christian, and they all disappeared - except one dude who still wanted to be friends. I think he got a beating for it. 
I met up with him before he left for Guangzhou, and he told me he was leaving Hunan forever and going to live in Guangzhou. That was the last I heard of him... I hope he didn't end up slashing people in Guangzhou...
