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Posts: 18

Governor

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Q: Does it pay off to learn Chinese?

Hey guys,

 

I want to hear your opinions on the point whether it pays off to learn Chinese, or rather whether it makes sense to attend any Chinese language course. I've met scores of foreigners in China over the years and many of them didn't even bother, saying that learning the characters is simply speaking a waste of time and even in Beijing there are enough English language enclaves to make you survive without Chinese. What is your stance on this issue?

7 years 26 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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Posts: 2878

Shifu

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I'm gonna respectfully go against scots and shining and say it completely depends what you hope to get out of your time invested in learning chinese whether it is worth it or not.

 

If you are thinking about staying here long term and want to be as comfortable as possible...yeah go for it. You can have more to do, more potential friends etc.

 

But when you say does it "pay off" to learn if you mean in terms of money or career options...well that depends. If you're a teacher I don't think it really will help you make any more money. If you want to do something else, maybe it could help open some doors but maybe not.

 

I'm not speaking to lazyness but just what gives you the best return on your investment of time. If you want to take the 2 yrs of full time-level effort it might take to get really really fluent in Chinese to read and write, is that going to be a better use of your time than say...getting a masters in computer programming online from a decent uni in the west? Getting an MBA from an international program at a big chinese school?

 

So really, what's your goal? You want to hang around China then yeah leaning chinese will make things easier. But if you want to make more money, unless you are targeting a trade niche that will be aided by speaking chinese, honestly there are better options. I'm sure it won't hurt, but don't imagine you can learn fluent Chinese and you'll get hired to some interesting career track at a serious company. There doesn't seem to be a clear path which automatically opens up simply by speaking fluent chinese as a foreigner.  

 

One thing I do reject though is that you have a moral obligation to learn a foreign language. I work here doing FP&A stuff and I certainly don't feel any obligation to learn, If i was living back in the US I certainly wouldn't so why should I just because of where my job is? Plus I went the "get an MBA" route which thank god will be finished soon! Your time belongs to YOU alone, spend it in the way you think is best.

Englteachted:

"I'm gonna go against scots and shining and say it completely depends what you hope to get out of your time invested in learning chinese whether it is worth it or not."

 

 

EXACTLY!!!

This is a personal question, no one can answer this for you. I will not stay in China, I will go to South Korea to settle. So why should I waste my time and effort learning Chinese?

7 years 26 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Me thinks you didn't actually read my post....

7 years 26 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

There was some nuance and qualification in there, definitely. But you opened with yes you should. 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that i'm disagreeing

7 years 26 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

You disagree that there are basics that everyone should learn? Aka - survival level???

7 years 26 weeks ago
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retiredinchina:

if i thought i could actually learn something important or beneficial, i would consider learning the language, but that has not happened, and most foreigners that become proficient that i have met, regret the time they spent learning the language when they realize how juvenile most conversations are between adults in china, no really constructive thinking, some background on the past to understand why things exist the way they do, but no original thought, and hard to get them to open up and discuss the past, just a waste of time.

7 years 25 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

That's not entirely true, there are some cool people here some of whom work in my office. I wouldn't just dismiss the idea of being able to expand my circle of friends. 

 

For me it's just a cost/benefit thing that sometimes gets lumped in with this weird appeal to morality or cultural respect. I think that's ridiculous. 

 

The loss is mine in the extra frustration and the limits on who I can talk to, but I can deal with that loss as learning chinese doesn't fit into any of my long-term plans.

7 years 25 weeks ago
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7 years 26 weeks ago
 
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Posts: 7178

Emperor

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Of course it is worth it. Would it be ok if Chinese nationals moved to your country and did not try to learn the language?

For the record. I can't speak Chinese. But my 4 year old daughter is fluent.

Language is not my thing. I can't do it. My brain is wired wrong.

In a way, this is why I can connect with the stereotypical image of an Asian grandma or grandpa living in a western country, being hounded for not integrating. The kid comes first. The parents do the hardship for the sake of the kid.

If you are able to, you should learn the language. What particular one is up to you Smile

retiredinchina:

there are many permanent residents in china towns in america that dont speak english, hell there are many mexicans working in places in california and texas that cant speak english and when you ask for directions, you cant find an english speaker in america, miami in certain neighborhoods also, multiculturalism does not work in america, you have urban tribe districts, hell i remember driving in Los Angeles a rental car in an asian neighborhood and not able to find an english sign for miller or budweiser, i simply wanted to buy a fucking cold beer to drink at my hotel, really pissed me off.

7 years 25 weeks ago
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7 years 26 weeks ago
 
Posts: 7715

Emperor

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Yes, you should. But, to what level is up to you! do you want to be reading newspapers from front to back? Or just reading menus in restaurants? (or job contracts??) Do you care about their opera? Or movies??

 

There are clearly some basics that everyone should be familiar with... food, directions, time, numbers. Basic verbs. (aka - 'survival' level)

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7 years 26 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2878

Shifu

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I'm gonna respectfully go against scots and shining and say it completely depends what you hope to get out of your time invested in learning chinese whether it is worth it or not.

 

If you are thinking about staying here long term and want to be as comfortable as possible...yeah go for it. You can have more to do, more potential friends etc.

 

But when you say does it "pay off" to learn if you mean in terms of money or career options...well that depends. If you're a teacher I don't think it really will help you make any more money. If you want to do something else, maybe it could help open some doors but maybe not.

 

I'm not speaking to lazyness but just what gives you the best return on your investment of time. If you want to take the 2 yrs of full time-level effort it might take to get really really fluent in Chinese to read and write, is that going to be a better use of your time than say...getting a masters in computer programming online from a decent uni in the west? Getting an MBA from an international program at a big chinese school?

 

So really, what's your goal? You want to hang around China then yeah leaning chinese will make things easier. But if you want to make more money, unless you are targeting a trade niche that will be aided by speaking chinese, honestly there are better options. I'm sure it won't hurt, but don't imagine you can learn fluent Chinese and you'll get hired to some interesting career track at a serious company. There doesn't seem to be a clear path which automatically opens up simply by speaking fluent chinese as a foreigner.  

 

One thing I do reject though is that you have a moral obligation to learn a foreign language. I work here doing FP&A stuff and I certainly don't feel any obligation to learn, If i was living back in the US I certainly wouldn't so why should I just because of where my job is? Plus I went the "get an MBA" route which thank god will be finished soon! Your time belongs to YOU alone, spend it in the way you think is best.

Englteachted:

"I'm gonna go against scots and shining and say it completely depends what you hope to get out of your time invested in learning chinese whether it is worth it or not."

 

 

EXACTLY!!!

This is a personal question, no one can answer this for you. I will not stay in China, I will go to South Korea to settle. So why should I waste my time and effort learning Chinese?

7 years 26 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Shining_brow:

Me thinks you didn't actually read my post....

7 years 26 weeks ago
Report Abuse

expatlife26:

There was some nuance and qualification in there, definitely. But you opened with yes you should. 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that i'm disagreeing

7 years 26 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Shining_brow:

You disagree that there are basics that everyone should learn? Aka - survival level???

7 years 26 weeks ago
Report Abuse

retiredinchina:

if i thought i could actually learn something important or beneficial, i would consider learning the language, but that has not happened, and most foreigners that become proficient that i have met, regret the time they spent learning the language when they realize how juvenile most conversations are between adults in china, no really constructive thinking, some background on the past to understand why things exist the way they do, but no original thought, and hard to get them to open up and discuss the past, just a waste of time.

7 years 25 weeks ago
Report Abuse

expatlife26:

That's not entirely true, there are some cool people here some of whom work in my office. I wouldn't just dismiss the idea of being able to expand my circle of friends. 

 

For me it's just a cost/benefit thing that sometimes gets lumped in with this weird appeal to morality or cultural respect. I think that's ridiculous. 

 

The loss is mine in the extra frustration and the limits on who I can talk to, but I can deal with that loss as learning chinese doesn't fit into any of my long-term plans.

7 years 25 weeks ago
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7 years 26 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2531

Emperor

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It would make your life easier to learn simple terms, questions and names. 

 

But it is a very difficult language to acquire to a native speaker's level and takes a lot of time and practice. expatlife26 is right to say that it may simply not be worth the time or effort if you want to reach the depths of the language...

 

I am at about an intermediate level. Was it difficult for me? Yes, I don't take kindly to the tones plus many characters look incredibly similar due to the radicals etc. 

 

Was it worthwhile? Overall... I would say yes, it grants you additional access to the culture that you otherwise wouldn't understand or totally grasp. Usually the people who can best explain Chinese culture and opinions, can't speak English. My wife is Chinese, so I have a permanent link. 

 

However, don't even bother if you are only going to stay in China for a year. no

 

 

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7 years 26 weeks ago
 
Posts: 307

Governor

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If you are to do business with China, it can be a good choice. If you want to know some Chinese traditions/cultures/features, it also can be beneficial. Learning language is a cool thing, because you're updating what you know and embracing more possibilities. 

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7 years 26 weeks ago
 
Posts: 186

Governor

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You may or may not benefit from learning Chinese,

but it will definitely NOT harm you in any way.

 

It is wise to know the ways of adversary .....

OR

When in Rome, do as romans do .....

 

Depends whether you hate or love China ... 

 

 

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7 years 26 weeks ago
 
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General

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I think it's up to what you are going to do with the language, meaning that once you are in your country you can still use the Chinese to shop online or import 

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7 years 19 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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It does and doesn't, mostly does, it doesn't for me because I now understand the stupid and worthless junk they talk about that just makes me tell them: bizui.. The worst place are elevators, my God!

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7 years 19 weeks ago
 
Posts: 165

Governor

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I believe it's always good to learn the local languages. That said, I deal daily with our (Lying Dog) Chinese manufacturers and potential suppliers. As a personal strategy I find it very advantageous to never let them believe I understand Mandarin or Cantonese.  My Chinese assistant translates all conversations. It takes a straight face and discipline, but I learn a lot, especially when my translator conveniently leaves for the ladies room during a critical part of negotiations or problem dissection. Fluid ethics and industrial incest are a large part of daily business life here. Caveat emptor was probably translated from a Chinese Business experience. 

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7 years 19 weeks ago
 
Posts: 827

Shifu

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I'm an old guy now. I've lived in China for 9 years (accept the summers). I know a few words and phrases but can't communicate in Chinese. If I were younger, I would say learn to communicate in Chinese. Home is in Canada. I don't have to retire at 65. China is now the second biggest economy and the Chinese are moving their money to North America so the knowing Mandarin is a plus when applying for jobs on the west coast.

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7 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1059

Shifu

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My Chinese is very bad,I have tried learning but just cant make the words stick in my head,My son (he is 3 ) speaks Chinese very well.

I know a little Chinese but not enough to have a chat with someone.

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7 years 10 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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she ma?

diverdude1:

yeah,, my pinyin sux!  no

7 years 10 weeks ago
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7 years 10 weeks ago
 
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