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Posts: 45

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Q: Does sleeping with students become acceptable once you're a university professor?

Lines are hazy when it comes to high school teachers sleeping with students. If they have a little power in the school, forget about it.

 

But for university teachers, things seem to be a lot more...open. A Chinese friend was casually telling me how a 50+ British professor of literature in Peking University had a new girlfriend every year or so. Open secret type of thing. I imagine things aren't so different with Chinese professors

 

Aren't there rules for dating and sleeping with university students?

 

 

12 years 4 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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"But for university teachers, things seem to be a lot more...open."

 

According to whom? Definitely not the university. I think if you asked most (if not all) administrative heads, or the teachers themselves, they would not consider this subject "open." Or even questionable. Proper behavior is not just assumed, so in many cases, it is spelled out explicitly in the contract, such as "Thou shall not date or have sex with students." That is pretty much cut and dried.

 

Yes, it does happen, but as soon as the "word gets out," that a teacher is sleeping with their students, then he, in most cases, will not be employed long, and will have a very hard time finding a job at another college or university.

 

I teach over 200 girls a week, and they are just that; "my girls." I call them young ladies in order for them to start thinking of themselves as adults, but to me they are girls. Are they cute? Sure. Some are beautiful enough to be models. But they are my students, and to try and go that other route would not only damage my reputation, but ruin any integrity I had with my wife, and the life that I want to build while here in China. It could also have the potential to induce some negative psychologically problems for them.

 

My job is to help them in life, not hurt them. That is one reason why I'm here.

paulmartin:

good answer i agree totally

12 years 4 weeks ago
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manasyt:

What about a girl that is not your student but from the same University?

Is that acceptable?

11 years 22 weeks ago
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giadrosich:

Not for me, it isn't.

11 years 22 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

I have to agree with giadrosich.  The student may not be ones own, but is still a student in the university where the teacher is an authority figure.

Now, if the student is from a different university AND of the age of consent, then that would be purely up to them. She can tell the teacher to go fly a kite and he has no power over her grades, therefore her consent would most likely be freely given if she truly agrees.

11 years 21 weeks ago
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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
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I have never heard of a romance story blossom from this situation. But if you don't believe me, give it a shot and see what happens.

 

"Lines are hazy when it comes to high school teachers sleeping with students"....!!!!! REALLY!!!!   You know, cowchow,  just cause you type this statement into the box doesn't make it real.

GuilinRaf:

Not only are the lines quite clear, there may even be statutory rape charges associated if a teacher in High School dates a student.

12 years 4 weeks ago
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Cowchow:

Any expat without his head up his own a$$ knows that there's a veritable gulf between the written and the unspoken rules in China.


Sure, it's rape on paper, and the average high school teacher will get charged, however anyone with a modicum of power, connections and influence in the school will not get charged.

 

Case in point? I personally know a girl who in her high school in Fujian had intercourse with the headmaster. It wasn't rape, but she was a minor. She became pregnant and had to get an abortion. Her parents kept hush about it because they feared the repercussions. And this was not an isolated case.

 

Talk to Chinese or read what's out there and you'll realize this is not a rare occurrence.

12 years 4 weeks ago
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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
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2008, one of my colleagues in Guilin married his former student. They started dating about two weeks after class began, and before the month was over she was living with him. Two years later, they married. But this is the only one I know of first hand.

 

Now, for me, I am old fashioned this way. I think it is unacceptable for current  teacher:student romances to take place. There is no equality.

Now, after the professional aspect is over, that is a different matter.

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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
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The fact that a teacher sleeping with students is even open for debate makes me want to puke.

Cowchow:

Read the last line of my original question, poopy. I'm not saying it's up for debate, I'm shocked at it seemingly being acceptable and asking whether or not these things are regulated in universities.

12 years 4 weeks ago
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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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please i would not be on this earth if not for that type of relationship.

 

i know people who work in china who sleep with there students so long as they want it.

I thought the age of consent was 14 so how young are the girls these guys are sleeping with.

TedDBayer:

The women look young enough without sleeping with babies. good luck perv

12 years 4 weeks ago
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Jíliú.hé:

when did i say wanted any thing to do with little girls i like real women, and real women take time to mature just like a good whine.

12 years 4 weeks ago
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kchur:

If anything, Juliu, you know how to have a good whine.

12 years 4 weeks ago
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Jíliú.hé:

 

Now I am no Master of Wine especially because of my love for Late harvest and Fruity wines. 

My favorites being Ports and Liquoreuxs wines that have undergone Chaptalization.

12 years 4 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

Master of WHINE Jiliu, NOT wine...

12 years 4 weeks ago
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Jíliú.hé:

 

here to answer some misunderstandings

 

 All I was saying was that I would not be here, if not for my great grandparents getting married and having my grandpa.

What is wrong with you guys my great grandma was my great grandpas students they both went to Harvard and where married over 60 years.

My grandmother went to an Ivy League college and ran her own women’s college for years.

My great grandfather had two Ivy League degrees and was my great grandmother’s high school principal. He ran part of the school zone and was a college professor at the same college my great grandmother later went to work at.

My great grandma was the one who went after my great grandpa. He got approval to marry her from her father a well know Boston jeweler. And he paid for her to go to Harvard his alma mater.

I do not know if I think it is correct but I do know it is not wrong, what is wrong is to decide who gets to fall in love.

 

But forcing your students to sleep with you is evil and I do not condone it

12 years 3 weeks ago
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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
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Any teacher who respects himself or herself as a human being, and has respect for his/her students, will not get involved in sexual activities with his/her students while still students under him/her.  I do know some cases where this is happening, and nothing happens for as long as it is kept sort of "private".  But as soon as word gets out and becomes public knowledge, or a scandal, the teacher has been dismissed from the position.

And to make absolutely clear what the age of consent is in China, and the ambiguity of the existing Law in some respects, plus the penalties involved, please read a copy below:

 

(Source: http://www.actwin.com/eatonohio/gay/world.htm)

 

CHINA LAWS:

 

1. Has no sodomy laws.

 

Source: http://www.interpol.int/Public/Children/SexualAbuse/NationalLaws/

China - Chine - China Beijing

I. Ages for legal purposes
Age of simple majority
According to the " Law for Protection of Minors in China ", citizens under eighteen (18) are minors and enjoy special protection by law. A child is a person aged between six (6) and fourteen (14).

Age of consent for sexual activity
No information has been received in connection with this offense.  But is is consider to be between the ages of 14 and 18 at present time.  No clear definition is present, depends mostly on local interpretation.

Age of consent for marriage
China’s Marriage Law sets the ages at twenty-two (22) for male persons and at twenty (20) for female persons.

II. Rape
The Criminal Law of China promulgated on 14th March and enacted on 1st of October, 1997, ruled:

I. Rape
Forcible coitus with women or by other means against their will.
Punishment : 3 to 10 years’ imprisonment

Carnal knowledge with girls aged under fourteen (14) years is considered rape
and deserves a heavier penalty.

II. Rapists will be punished with imprisonment from 10 years to life imprisonment, until death
penalty under following circumstances
a) Raping women or minors viciously ;
b) Raping more women and minors ;
c) Raping women in public ;
d) Raping in rotation by more than 2 offenders ;
e) Causing death or serious consequences.

III. Other forms of child sex abuse
‘Indecent assault against the will of women or by force’
Punishment : imprisonment for up to 5 years or forced labour.
If the offender assaults or insults women in public, he will be punished with imprisonment for over 5 years.

‘Fingering or sodomy against minors under fourteen (14)’
Punishment : imprisonment for up to 5 years or forced labour.
If the offence is committed in public, the punishment will be imprisonment for at least 5 years.
‘Minor’ includes boys and girls aged under fourteen (14).

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"But for university teachers, things seem to be a lot more...open."

 

According to whom? Definitely not the university. I think if you asked most (if not all) administrative heads, or the teachers themselves, they would not consider this subject "open." Or even questionable. Proper behavior is not just assumed, so in many cases, it is spelled out explicitly in the contract, such as "Thou shall not date or have sex with students." That is pretty much cut and dried.

 

Yes, it does happen, but as soon as the "word gets out," that a teacher is sleeping with their students, then he, in most cases, will not be employed long, and will have a very hard time finding a job at another college or university.

 

I teach over 200 girls a week, and they are just that; "my girls." I call them young ladies in order for them to start thinking of themselves as adults, but to me they are girls. Are they cute? Sure. Some are beautiful enough to be models. But they are my students, and to try and go that other route would not only damage my reputation, but ruin any integrity I had with my wife, and the life that I want to build while here in China. It could also have the potential to induce some negative psychologically problems for them.

 

My job is to help them in life, not hurt them. That is one reason why I'm here.

paulmartin:

good answer i agree totally

12 years 4 weeks ago
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manasyt:

What about a girl that is not your student but from the same University?

Is that acceptable?

11 years 22 weeks ago
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giadrosich:

Not for me, it isn't.

11 years 22 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

I have to agree with giadrosich.  The student may not be ones own, but is still a student in the university where the teacher is an authority figure.

Now, if the student is from a different university AND of the age of consent, then that would be purely up to them. She can tell the teacher to go fly a kite and he has no power over her grades, therefore her consent would most likely be freely given if she truly agrees.

11 years 21 weeks ago
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12 years 4 weeks ago
 
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[quote=Happy]...will not get involved in sexual activities with his/her students while still students under him/her.[/quote]

Do you really mean 'under' him or her?? Tongue

[quote=Happy again!]... the teacher has been dismissed from the position.[/quote]

And, is this the same 'position' as having the students 'under' him or her?? :pP

I pretty much agree with Glad... my 'girls' are just that - girls! They're not only young physically, but also mentally and emotionally... AND, they're MY students!!!

But, just to play the game.... remember, it was only in recent history when not meeting up with someone through work and the like wasn't so unusual, After all, most people never travelled far. And, many relationships have formed between teacher and student. And they have worked wonderfully well. Is it such a bad thing if, say, a couple meet up by chance outside of one's workplace, and hit it off? Why is it ok for a, say, a shopkeeper to have a relationship with a customer? Or, a politician with virtually ANYone? Or even a police officer?? TIC... if no-one is complaining too loudly about something, then it really doesn't matter... does it?

kchur:

Do you really think the teacher-student relationship is psychologically comparable to the relationship between you and the corner store dude who sells you snacks?

12 years 4 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

If you'll notice, I posed a question. I didn't make a statement. Thus, it's not for me to say they are comparable, but for others to say why it's not.

 

Also, I see that you chose to address one example, but ignored the others... is there a particular reason for that?

 

(not taking shots at you, just sticking with the format of an argument)

12 years 4 weeks ago
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Shifu

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you will lose your job and end up in jail.

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12 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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There are rules, but usually not enforced. Doesn't matter though, sometimes it's an equal benefit, but usually what happens is the teacher will eventually be blackmailed for money or grades or whatever it may be. Happens frequently, if the student goes to the PSB it's game over for the foreigner

GuilinRaf:

In fairness, I do know Chinese colleagues who sleep with their students as well. "We" just stand out more.

12 years 3 weeks ago
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12 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Yeah Guil, and to be honest, once your past eighteen, who gives anyone a right to say you can or can't. So, it's like do if you dare. 

Victoria1987:

I like your words.cool

11 years 29 weeks ago
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12 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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here to answer some misunderstandings

 

 All I was saying was that I would not be here, if not for my great grandparents getting married and having my grandpa.

What is wrong with you guys my great grandma was my great grandpas students they both went to Harvard and where married over 60 years.

My grandmother went to an Ivy League college and ran her own women’s college for years.

My great grandfather had two Ivy League degrees and was my great grandmother’s high school principal. He ran part of the school zone and was a college professor at the same college my great grandmother later went to work at.

My great grandma was the one who went after my great grandpa. He got approval to marry her from her father a well know Boston jeweler. And he paid for her to go to Harvard his alma mater.

I do not know if I think it is correct but I do know it is not wrong, what is wrong is to decide who gets to fall in love.

 

But forcing your students to sleep with you is evil and I do not condone it

Victoria1987:

agree with.I liked an Australian teacher when I was in training school,but he refused me.Who just one year's older than me.He told  he wanted to be a good man,don't want to date his student now.latter on I met my first boyfriend,then he jeloused a lot of him,he often asked me who is taller,he or my foreign bf.I don't kown what is going on with his mind.

11 years 29 weeks ago
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12 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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It is acceptable only if you keep your promise to give them an A grade

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12 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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Yes.

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12 years 3 weeks ago
 
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So long as you teach them sex related English phrases first, its fine.

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12 years 3 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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Ethically, and western ideology, it is never appropriate to sleep with your students. The APA suggest at least two years after they are no longer your student, and that they are above the age of consent. Still it is frowned on.

 

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Governor

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In 2010 an Australian teacher at Anhui University got caught. Dismissed from the position of teaching and it caused a huge out cry from the locals. The family demands his bollocks  on a plate. Fair play to him he had the guts to approach the parents and ask forgiveness form making her pregnant and destroying her University education. However 2 months n the local PSB lock-up then escorted to the airport put the end to it all for him. She however lost her place at the University , made to terminate her pregnancy, and banished by her wealthy parents and family for bring shame and disgrace to the family. Not OK even f you are prepared to except the repercussions and step up to your responsibilities, sleeping with students you have lost your own self respect, integrity and dignity, for what a 2 minutes of pleasure to boost your ego, something to boast about when you return home. And your also branding many other good sincere teachers with the same iron.  

bojackhorseman:

2 minutes?  could just hit up a uniqlo changeroom

8 years 25 weeks ago
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11 years 29 weeks ago
 
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It's Okay for most Chinese professors. For foreigners you best keep it quiet.

elchinocabron:

At Bill,

 

Totally agree.

We all know all these Chinese University professors have been taking (getting away with )advantage of their position in exchange for sexual favours and who knows what else from desperate or rather shameless female students.However when in comes to a foreign teacher/professor all fingers are pointed at him/her then we all foreigners get automatically  labelled as perverts sex beast for no reason. Again the case the Pot calling the kettle black.

11 years 22 weeks ago
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11 years 29 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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Is this a serious question?  Did you read about the girl who died in Qingdao?  Why do you think those teachers were plying here with alcohol?

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11 years 22 weeks ago
 
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In some cases certainly. I know of one university professor whose wife just happens to also be one his students. You tell the university that he shouldn't sleep with her!

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11 years 22 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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It doesn't matter by the time you get to the University you should at least be a consenting adult. 18 or older!

GuilinRaf:

The problem is that it is hard to get real "consent". The professor, like a boss or a higher ranking military officer has power over the student, employee or soldier, so they are not truly equal. As such, the person might seem to consent, but it may be in order to avoid some kind of repercussion: failing a class, getting fired or being transferred to a remote weather station in northern Greenland...

11 years 21 weeks ago
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11 years 21 weeks ago
 
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You not only can sleep with them. You can throw them out windows too. 

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11 years 21 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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oh! is there any special agreement btw the professor and the student/ is the student willingly allowing the teacher to sleep with her or is there any secret contracts such as,i sleep with you and you pass my test at ease?

the former maybe acceptable while the latter maybe forbidden

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11 years 21 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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it's unethical 

9 years 51 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Jason. or Justin?

9 years 51 weeks ago
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Jasonhuang2014:

Jason, y?

9 years 51 weeks ago
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9 years 51 weeks ago
 
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Because the current threads are boring...

 

What about a student at a university who isn't one of the teacher's students?  

WooMow:

For some reason that still seems predatory, or at least taking advantage of your position. But really nothing super sinful about it I suppose.

 

Another question on top of yours, are there different considerations for undergrad vs. grad students? Does age difference come into play as well?

8 years 25 weeks ago
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8 years 25 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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I remember at my University there was a full disclosure policy, if professors wanted to seek a romantic relationship with a student they had to fully disclose it and the student had to transfer out of their class. The rationale being, no one can help who they fall in love with. Still probably a bad career move.

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8 years 25 weeks ago
 
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