The place to ask China-related questions!
Beijing Shanghai Guangzhou Shenzhen Chengdu Xi'an Hangzhou Qingdao Dalian Suzhou Nanjing More Cities>>

Categories

Close
Welcome to eChinacities Answers! Please or register if you wish to join conversations or ask questions relating to life in China. For help, click here.
X

Verify email

Your verification code has been sent to:

Didn`t receive your code? Resend code

By continuing you agree to eChinacities's Privacy Policy .

Sign up with Google Sign up with Facebook
Sign up with Email Already have an account? .
Posts: 1989

Peasant

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

Q: Easier for teachers to "hate" China than other expats working here?

Upfront, I've never taught here, so feel free to let me know if I'm full of crap.

 

From what I have gathered from reading this board (and talking to a few teachers I've known), there's a lot to loath about the average ESL teaching experience in China. 

 

-employers scamming you out of pay, making you work crazy hours/extra classes, lying about giving a work cisa etc.

-the students are little emperors at worst or mostly uninterested in learning English at best.

-parents bribing you to give their kids higher marks.

-other teachers ditching and leaving you with their classes.

 

While I've certainly had some experiences that piss me off, what I've heard about teaching here second-hand makes me want to stay far away from it. (granted, I'm sure there are some good gigs out there).

 

Anyway, do you think that it's easier for ESL teachers to have a negative image of China than other expats working here? Or is it all about the same? 

 

 

 

 

11 years 3 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
Highest Voted
Posts: 2186

Emperor

6
9
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
3

Teaching is a vocation, if you don't feel called to it, you'll hate it, whether you're in China or Hawaii.

 

Now, if you are teaching in China and you don't like teaching, there's a very high chance you'll hate China, I know the logic doesn't automatically follow, but I think it is a common occurrence none the less.

 

However, that same idea probably follows from any career, if you don't love the job, it's highly likely you won't love the place you're doing the job, although the converse, (loving the job = loving the place) is not necessarily true as so many more factors fall into loving a place. Frequently it only takes one factor to induce hate, at least if you are looking for negatives it does.

boomsticks:

Three dislikes?  Why? On what basis?!

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
11 years 3 weeks ago
 
Answers (10)
Comments (21)
Posts: 6321

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

 Interesting question!

At first glance, I would be inclined to say "yes" since we are the ones who are actually (for the most part) having to deal with daily life here on our own. I would also add small business people, bartenders, musicians etc.

Embassy staff, people from large foreign  corporations who are temporarily stationed here are often times "taken care of" (living in "compounds, having peopld "do" things for them, etc.). So for them the experience may seem more "magical".

HOWEVER, the teachers, musicians, bartenders, etc. mentioned above, we also get to see a lot of the charm first hand that the other group does not. So, for me at least, this balances out the not so great experiences that we have here (and which get less and less the longer we live here as we adapt, learn or accept certain behaviors.).

So, in conclusion, I would guess the experience pretty much is the same in terms of liking/hating the place. It is the details that would vary.

Report Abuse
11 years 3 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2186

Emperor

6
9
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
3

Teaching is a vocation, if you don't feel called to it, you'll hate it, whether you're in China or Hawaii.

 

Now, if you are teaching in China and you don't like teaching, there's a very high chance you'll hate China, I know the logic doesn't automatically follow, but I think it is a common occurrence none the less.

 

However, that same idea probably follows from any career, if you don't love the job, it's highly likely you won't love the place you're doing the job, although the converse, (loving the job = loving the place) is not necessarily true as so many more factors fall into loving a place. Frequently it only takes one factor to induce hate, at least if you are looking for negatives it does.

boomsticks:

Three dislikes?  Why? On what basis?!

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
11 years 3 weeks ago
 
Posts: 158

Governor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

i have seen some really un-qualified teachers here...so i would rather say  that its

Easier for china to "hate" "teachers"  than other expats working here?

Report Abuse
11 years 3 weeks ago
 
Posts: 4935

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

I've never earned a single RMB in China... and I hate it all the time. There are many things I love too, but... I guess it's a love-hate relationship.

Amonk:

I love you too Hulk, brohug.

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
11 years 3 weeks ago
 
Posts: 887

Shifu

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

You seem to be talking about training centers...get a public Uni job, most of the problems you are talking about aren't relevant there. Parents? Forget that, man, I'm not dealing with them.

Amonk:

I second this. Teaching in a public university now, and compared with the workplace problems my mother faced as a kindergarten teacher in America- this is heaven.

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse

manasyt:

Yep, I've never had a better lifestyleangel. Just signed again for a 3rd year smiley

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
11 years 3 weeks ago
 
Posts: 5539

Emperor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

mana is right. i love my life as a teacher because i teach at a uni. i knew going in that training schools would make me go postal. for me teaching is about teaching. not about massaging egos , not about profits or any other bs. 

let's be realistic teaching in china is not like teaching in hawaii. teaching in china has unique challenges. some of these challenges can make you want to quit at times. i'll give you an example. if you are tough on cheating and consistent you become public enemy no. 1 . you anger the depts , students, and the chinese teachers. yeah "the entire world is the same as china" Hawaiian students and schools allow students to cheat. (give that lame argument a rest)

in my entire lifetime as a student or my 4 years working , i have never heard of a teacher/ administrator telling students things to undermine another teacher. hnese teachers and admin tell the students bs about foreigners and their foreign english teachers. they tell them our class is supposed to be easy and full of activities/ games. they tell the students that what we are only to  teach them  pronunciation and it's not really important.  i even had a teacher teach them some racist jokes to say in my class.  oh yeah that sounds a lot like hawaii (cue other "brit" " that happen to me also in britain" yeah right)

actually i will say this about teaching. we see the best of china. some students will believe the bs their chinese english teachers tell them. but the ones who are hungry to learn , and eager to met the standards you set for them make this job worth doing. they're the ones that keep me going. last semester , a student said to me after receiving her scores. "i didn't do to well but i understand why. i will do better the next time." 1 of those is worth a million "why wasn't my score higher? " (from students who didn't come to class, didn't do the work, didn't study and scored low on tests)

teaching in china can give you hope for a better future. 

Hugh.G.Rection:

Way to go Crimo, take my comment WAY WAY out of pucking context.

 

The point I was making (and you well know it) is that if you don't love teaching it is highly unlikely you'll like the place (nation / state / city) you are teaching in, especially if it isn't home.

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse

crimochina:

and i politely disagree. if i'm a prison guard in a thai womens prison, i will love it.

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Amonk:

Fiscally speaking it would be cheaper to make all Thai prisons into women's prisons, Thai sex changes are as common as Korean eyelid surgery.

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse

crimochina:

amonk: then it wouldn't be as fun

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
11 years 3 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1989

Peasant

0
3
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
3

Wow, such a question it worth the answer. Teaching and living in China it's a 2 ways out and it only depends on what your character is: you die or you become stronger than never. There's no way in between. Either you give rid to yourself and let all the worst of your character get out making you unhappy, frustrated, resented and embittered or you get rid of all this and understand your own frustrations, ask yourself "why does it make me feel so?", find answers, enlarge your horizon of solutions to as much as possible you can do, accept and become tolerant with your own limits, learn to be happy within your cubicle life and so become stronger.
That's why when it comes to living China you either hate it or love it because you either hate or love yourself.
If there is a way in between please let me know. It does indeed get out the worst of you, the most ridiculous about yourself then you can become obstinate to keeping that way or work out on yourself to improve. Thus, I believe it is possible, from time to time, like a sort of revelation, to be at peace with yourself first and with everybody where you are in this Country. The problem that follows such revelations it's a great deal of problem: you need to learn to be constant making such reconciliation a present fact in your every day life here. The challenge it's an upscale on the way out to the man you never thought you could become.

Amonk:

Either you are not an English teacher, and so are not qualified to comment on the subject...

 

or you are an English teacher, and I sincerely hope you are not an English teacher. You averaged more than one terribly incorrect figure of speech per sentence. That would be practically impressive if it weren't deliberate.

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse
 

:

Well, I am an English teacher indeed. Like it or not. As to whatever you pretend you have the right to be so disrespectful, well, I can live with it and am always ready to learn. In the meantime I hope you will be able as well to be less arrogant. But that's you and it looks it makes you happy, though for some reason, right now, you don't sound like it. And BTW, for somebody who is a Native English teacher, your answer does look so poor.

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Hulk:

Aww, go easy on Jeaniacob. She's not your typical retard non-native teacher. She's a great lady, and probably a good teacher too.

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse
 

:

Hey Hulk, thanks a lot for your support. I will make it better next time. BTW. Jeaniacob is Jean Iacob, and it's a French name for men. I know in English this name it's for a women but in France it's for a man. Hahahhahah, LOL. I had sometimes this problem with people reading my name, but no problem. That ain't change my manhood. I believe I should ask the admin to allow me to change it to John Jacob or something like this. Again, thanks a lot. I forgot to say that since I came to China, I learned to love teaching English. It's my best experience I've ever had teaching different languages.

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Amonk:

I'm sure she's a wonderful person and a lovely friend, but that doesn't magically make her writing even close to decipherable. That said, considering the state of ESL here I'm sure she's not the least qualified.

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse

LAR:

Hello Jean,

                    I appreciate your thought-provoking comments.

 

Take care!

11 years 2 weeks ago
Report Abuse
 

:

Hi LAR, 

 

thank you for your message and support. Take care you too. 

11 years 2 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
11 years 3 weeks ago
 
Posts: 4397

Emperor

3
5
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
2

  I've got no complaints about teaching here. For a start my only qualification is that i've been speaking English all my life, but i've still been able to build a career here where in London I was stuck in a humdrum existence of dead-end jobs. I've had to put up with a certain extent of the 'dancing foreign monkey' syndrome, but i've managed to enjoy it for the most part. Never had anyone try to bribe me though, only had minimal grief from employees, and feel i've had a great deal of freedom to do things my way on the whole. Nope.......no complaints.

crimochina:

You don't have a BA? or are you just trying promote the idea that english teachers are rejects w/o degrees?

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse

mArtiAn:

  No and no.

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Amonk:

Well that makes sense at least, people without even a BA in a modern nation aren't going to get far. There's only so many people needed to be window washers and grocery baggers. No offense of course, my father was a janitor.

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse

mArtiAn:

  No offense taken, I was sharing a bed with my brother and eating out of a tip before I came here; now i'm a teacher. I work hard and am deeply conscientious about my work, but back home I was in a dead-end. I've bettered myself. No shame in it.

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
11 years 3 weeks ago
 
Posts: 195

Governor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

I am also an english teacher here but my image of china has not changed because my job. I don,t have  the feeling china hates unskilled teacher either, I just have the feeling that you don,t need to be a native speaker to find a job as an english teacher I am really shocked, but I can,t say that I really like china. Sometimes I get crazy and I loose my temper.  

 

:

Yeah, I know how this is like but you learn to accept many things. Well, there certain things that I can't accept like the hygiene issues.

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Amonk:

Definitely, they're ******* disgusting. It's a good thing I have a poor sense of smell, because just looking at their unwashed hair makes me feel grimy. I tell them that I shower once a day and they're absolutely shocked- don't even mention flossing, they'll try to convince you it's 'unhealthy'. I mean, I don't blame them, since the showers are in a different building from their dorms and floss is pretty expensive here...

11 years 3 weeks ago
Report Abuse
Report Abuse
11 years 3 weeks ago
 
Posts: 42

Governor

0
0
You must be a registered user to vote!
You must be a registered user to vote!
0

We've all had different experiences. It might depend on area, school leaders attitudes and the students' own feelings about English and/or foreigners. Of course we're a novelty in smaller areas in the beginning, but that normally fades after a while. I loved teaching my kids at my first assignment, the best high school in a small county. Many of the kids came from villages in the mountains, but most lived nearby. It didn't take long to get to know the teachers. Most of the English teachers were young--3 were new--so their English was better than the older ones. It was like the agents advertise, "you'll be treated like a rock star!" But as that faded, the kids got closer, many calling me dad, and wanting to hang out. My apartment was right off the playground not far from the dining hall, so some of the closer ones would stop by with their dinner and visit. These kids were hungry for English, and made me feel more appreciated than I ever felt in any other work! 3 classes started their own English clubs to have on Friday evenings between dinner and evening classes. Even though the leaders didn't honor parts of the contract for providing me with a TV, and weren't speedy with my first 2 months food expenses, they (including the headmaster) always greeted me friendly. Even if they saw me from a distance, they'd wave and call my name with big smiles. Unfortunately, that school only has a foreign teacher for the first half of the year. Despite most of the Chinese English teachers attempts to persuade the headmaster to change policy and keep me on indefinitely, he only invited me back the next year. I was working through VIP China in BeiJing then, and although they say that after your first term they'll raise your salary by 1000 RMB/month, they apparently only work with schools like that one so they can continue paying a starting salary, as they move teachers to the next school which will require a probationary period too. But I loved my students and colleagues so much that after my short visit to the US, I returned for around 2 weeks, as the leaders allowed me to leave some of my things (mostly gifts from the kids) and to stay until Spring Fest, and would visit the students at lunch break and in the evening. 

After Spring Fest, where I stayed with a girlfriend, I went to work for a Jinan company who sent me to my present school in a city-level county only a 2 hour train trip away from the first school.

Completely different environment. The previous teachers were from African countries and I was told their accents were very strong, so some teachers told their students not to copy their pronunciation! Of course this must have contributed to their disinterest in spoken English. The headmaster never greeted me after our first meeting, always looking in another direction when our paths crossed. After 3 years here I still don't know many of these teachers!  But I made some wonderful friends in the English department. Despite my use of the multimedia equipment for MVs and photos most students showed little interest. The other school's students were satisfied with the book lessons and songs from my iPod!  There were a few students that did become sons and daughters here, and the following full term was comparable to the experience at the first school. A great term although I had to spend a lot of frustrating time away due to a screw-up visa agent the company used that year. He was trying to get me to start a teacher placement agency, and cost the Jinan company a lot of money because of his bumbling crooked schemes. Last term was pretty good. Even the headmaster opened up for a while. Through the head teacher the school expressed their desire to keep me as long as I wanted, which of course please Jinan, even though they had some frustrating times trying to get the school to improve my apartment. Each year they'd promise if I completed the year, they'd put me in a better school. But I'd find myself attached to friends and my students, and last year I married a lady from here. After we married and went to bring the wedding party invitation to the headmaster, he roughly informed my wife that he had pressure from some people he never named, for us to move off campus!  Last July we were ordered to move, and the headmaster would not agree to pay the cash food expense nor utilities and internet as had been in the previous contracts. But they agreed to reimburse us for rent and moving expenses in 4 payments this term, although we had to pay these up front. Also when I threatened to quit, Jinan began added the amount of the food allowance to my monthly salary. This term all of the Chinese teachers agree we have more "bu hao" and "naughty" students than ever. Some have said they miss the time when the grade 3 seniors were grade 1, and I do too. But of course we do have sine that are as good as previous terms.

So in my time here, I've had good and bad experiences. And I've gone from absolutely loving teaching to this disappointing term. But overall, for being the only foreign permanent resident in this city, I'm happy. I have a great wife with a wonderful family, some good colleagues, and many sons and daughters. I don't regret for a moment my decision to come teach in China. There are ups and downs, but more ups. I've even heard that the headmaster will be leaving! 

Report Abuse
11 years 1 week ago
 
Know the answer ?
Please or register to post answer.

Report Abuse

Security Code: * Enter the text diplayed in the box below
Image CAPTCHA
Enter the characters shown in the image.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd> <img> <br> <p> <u>
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
  • Textual smileys will be replaced with graphical ones.

More information about formatting options

Forward Question

Answer of the DayMORE >>
A: It's up to the employer if they want to hire you that's fine most citi
A:It's up to the employer if they want to hire you that's fine most cities today require you to take a health check every year when renewing the working visa if you pass the health check and you get your visa renewed each year I know teachers that are in their 70s and they're still doing great -- ironman510