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Q: Is Engrish (non-native Eng.) the new English?
Most English speakers on the planet are not from the big 5 (or big 10) native English speaking countries. The majority (if not vast majority) of English speakers on the planet therefore do not speak what we natives might recognize as native English. Two of the main types of non-native English I'm thinking of are Indian English (Inglish) and Chinglish.
I wonder if we natives are just going to have to get used to the sometimes strange expressions that non-native speakers come up with. Actually sometimes the non-native English has a cool ring to it, but other times the non-native English is very difficult to understand. Do you think English's stature as the international language is going to mean a lot of the grammar rules and unspoken rules of English are going to change significantly over the next few generations, to the point where we can say that Engrish is the new English?
The superstructure is determined by the socio-economic base.
Totally confused with your statement. Not heard of the Indian English and chinglish isnt that a word meant for Chinese speaking bad English which is not a language? If a country had taken a adaption of English than surely that's not native? I could not imagine that language dominating native English. You have to remember also one country that has tons of people statistically will be correct as most spoken but not as most useful..
sam239:
I can give you one example of Ingrish, when they say "very good" it comes out as "berry goose". And usually they make it sound more enthusiastic, like "Ahhhhhhhhh, berry goose!".
What you consider to be the Big 5 aren't really the best sounding English speaking countries. You only put them together because they are mostly populated by WHITE colonists. Excuse me, but the way Australians speak is nowhere near what would sound like English. It's just pure gibberish that is extremely painful to the ear.
Same goes for when the French talk about native French countries: they only consider Canada (Quebec), Belgium and the French speaking part of Switzerland. They simply ignore all the French speaking countries in Africa. Why? Because the majority there isn't White. And I've met plenty of people from countries such as Gabon who speak perfect French whereas people in Quebec have absolutely horrible sounding French.
As for the non-natives who make an effort to speak English, encourage them instead of acting like an arrogant douchebag. The American language isn't English. It's a bastardised version of English.
sam239:
That's typical of people pulling the race card. What you say says more about your worldview than it does about the actual state of the world. Hypocrite!
xinyuren:
true. It's like you (Justin) don't know the definition of "native". The OP didn't list the names of the countries he considered to be the Big 5. Your assumptions are based on your personal prejudices alone, not on any facts.
Kachru's three circles model identifies five countries as inner circle (native speaking) countries; not sure where you go ten from. India is recognised as an outer circle country, where English is a second language. China is an expanding circle country, and Chinglish is not a variety of English.
There are countless varieties of English from the outer circle countries, spoken by non-native speakers, and many are mutually unintelligible. Each has it's own morphology and syntax, and some are almost considered distinct languages in their own right.
The concept of English as a lingua franca, as you are suggesting, is relatively recent, and not taken seriously by most linguists.
sam239:
OK, thanks for the solid information. I just multiplied the standard 5 native English countries by 2 to get 10. In this day-and-age it's better to be on the safe side and use "inclusive language" in order not to get called a racist!
Haha, evidently this thread made someone the very angry. It's gotten a total of 38 downvotes and 6 upvotes, ignoring the ones I gave Horlk and Traverer. But no one but Traveler seems to have answered my original question...if someone from Indonesia meets someone from China in business, they're likely using (their version of) English...same with Russians, Indians, Europeans, Africans, everyone. Unless they're learning Chinese or Spanish, but everyone's learning English. So with all of these non-native English speakers using their non-native versions of the language to communicate with each other, is English going to change?
JustinF:
The British themselves have a very hard time understanding each other. And they are considered native speakers
ohChina:
I think it gets so many down votes because some people's feelings or pride get hurt. I'm giving you an up vote though. English of course has changed and will go on changing. Languages evolve all the time. I believe in the big 5 countries, English as a language has become at least slightly different from 50 years ago. Chinese is changing too, with newly invented vocabulary increasing like boom everyday. Language is more than a tool people use to communicate. It stands for a lot of important things behind it, including discursive power ,apical dominance and history.
Oops he wally wally
Oops Oops he Bing Bang
Oops he wally wally
Oops Oops he Bing Bang
NO!!!!!
your question is not racist itself, even if quite dumb, is the way you wrote it that makes you sound racist
sam239:
That's just further proof that people throw around the word "racist" so much it has become meaningless. There's nothing in the post to indicate I consider one race superior or consider other races inferior. People who think otherwise are idiotic.
There's more red on this thread then on the flag on China!! Bad China Days all round? or is it just a stupid question? Thumbs up for if its a stupid question, thumbs down for a bad China day. Hit me up 
sam239:
Why i you think it's a stupid question? Actually Traveler's the only person who's answered the question I asked, which is a linguistics question. There are many ESL teachers in China with degrees in applied linguistics so I thought there would be more information. Maybe I just phrased it in a way that sounds offensive?
davidccollis:
Sorry Sam, I didn't mean to flame you. To me, the obvious answer to the threads question would be no. The answer as why it’s a stupid question I quote my favorite TV shows main character…. "Phrasing". 
I'am a non native and I have worked with many native speakers. Most of them didn't know their own language, its structure and grammar and they were languages teachers ! Most native language teachers in China, or elsewhere, can't even tell you what a verb is ! How can you teach a language if you don't know its grammar, conversational english is just not enough. Whatever they might say. Particularly, when you getting conversational English from "teachers" who actually speak a very bad English and basic English. Ha! the arrogance of the english native speaker !
JustinF:
Excuse me, but were you an English teacher, by any misfortune?
Mr_Sausage:
You have obviously been working at some crappy language schools where they employ people on dodgy visas who should be tourists.
Decent schools, clearly the ones who wont employ you, employ people with a Z visa who have a good understanding of their own language. They also employ 'non-native' too with good English.
'Most' seems like a blanket statement, that's why I'm ranting.
before coming to china i had no idea that there was such a thing as a native speaker or a non native speaker....i don't really get it but as long as your pronunciation is good the accent doesn't matter or is that a thing?
sam239:
Theoretically, accent doesn't matter as long as it's understandable, but practically, people make assumptions based on accent, hence why English students pay more for native speakers; they want the 'pure' accent. My question is more about grammar/syntax, is this going to change across all dialects of English when non-native English is more widely spoken? Just like British English is becoming popular/fashionable in the US
