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Q: Is ESL so low, that people don't consider it a real job?

I'm sure the answer is obvious to many, however...

 

I've been advertising for Full-time and Part-time positions, 'teaching' kids.

 

The school is headed by an American, an experienced and fairly intelligent Chinese... and myself sort of helping with the kids side of thing (I focus on the IELTS side).

 

So, I was asked to try to get teachers.

 

So far, 5 responses...

 

And only ONE I'd ever bother really considering!!!

 

ONLY one has bothered to treat this as an actual job that is worth trying for... he put in effort to give a well constructed expression of interest email, and took the time to send an intelligent audio file (I focus on pronunciation features, as well as grammar).

 

The rest... OMFG... do they even give a shit???

 

From the "I'm interested in this job" - implying that *I* should go out of my way to do all the hard work to get them, because they are SO awesome... to the audio file of someone who sounded like he's still high (or drunk) on something...

 

Is it the industry? Is is just the mindset of the younger generation these days??

 

(I ask the latter, because I recall going for my last job interview in Australia, and a LOT of the candidates in the room were uni students (times were fairly flexible)... and some turned up in crap t-shirts, shorts and thongs (the footwear, not the underwear!)

3 years 7 weeks ago in  Business & Jobs - China

 
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Yes, no, maybe... it depends on what you are offering, the location of your school and its credibility.

 

I get tons of applications from people who think of English teaching as a summer gig in the likes of camp monitor or crops picking, to those I don't even reply.

 

But I can also tell you that the best candidates go to the most serious schools/centers, the ones that offer a fairly high compensation for the job. I have tons of CVs from legit and motivated teachers but they are picky and won't work for the low-end ESL salaries that are typically offered in China.

 

Not talking about you but I always want to laugh (not in front of my customers of course) when a school is asking me to find them a certified teacher with 5+ years of experience while offering something like 9k or 12k without free flat.

 

Considering the demand and supply, most legitimate certified and experienced teachers in China shouldn't accept anything less than 25k a month with free apartment (30k without it), and the supply is thinning by the day.

 

The backpacker-teacher types are fewer than before, it's true, but the people who now come to teach in China are way more picky about where and for how much they will work, and rightfully so.

 

The sad part is schools are also becoming pickier but most won't offer a fair compensation to the right candidates, so they get what's left of the backpackers instead, while legit teachers go to higher paying schools or to the neighboring countries or start their own school/center instead.

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3 years 7 weeks ago
 
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It's a Job?....
Seriously though if you could see some of the Mung beans that turn up for interviews at my workplace you at least have candidates that can walk and chew gum at the same time.
It seems like everyone is under the impression that they can have a luxuries lifestyle without any effort.
Or that the world owes them a living.
And I'm guessing that being in China they want white Native English Speakers and not the well spoken Nigerian Gentleman.

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3 years 7 weeks ago
 
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Yes, no, maybe... it depends on what you are offering, the location of your school and its credibility.

 

I get tons of applications from people who think of English teaching as a summer gig in the likes of camp monitor or crops picking, to those I don't even reply.

 

But I can also tell you that the best candidates go to the most serious schools/centers, the ones that offer a fairly high compensation for the job. I have tons of CVs from legit and motivated teachers but they are picky and won't work for the low-end ESL salaries that are typically offered in China.

 

Not talking about you but I always want to laugh (not in front of my customers of course) when a school is asking me to find them a certified teacher with 5+ years of experience while offering something like 9k or 12k without free flat.

 

Considering the demand and supply, most legitimate certified and experienced teachers in China shouldn't accept anything less than 25k a month with free apartment (30k without it), and the supply is thinning by the day.

 

The backpacker-teacher types are fewer than before, it's true, but the people who now come to teach in China are way more picky about where and for how much they will work, and rightfully so.

 

The sad part is schools are also becoming pickier but most won't offer a fair compensation to the right candidates, so they get what's left of the backpackers instead, while legit teachers go to higher paying schools or to the neighboring countries or start their own school/center instead.

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3 years 7 weeks ago
 
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Teaching ESL in china is like a vacation if you have ever had a 40 hour a week laborer job. After working in my own country for a year I go to china to teach for vacation....I just do it to keep myself busy and pay for trips....that's it. And the only reason I get people asking me to work is because im a white Canadian...only reason. Any "job" where that is the main selling point...is not a real job....its a job...but not one to brag about. My degree is irrelevant in china.Its only used for the visa not to assess your English skill. Literally any white monkey can do..,,,hell you don't even have to speak English well.

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3 years 7 weeks ago
 
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why do you think you should have better applicants than anyone else?

It is not an ESL thing, but you might think those foreigners should be better.

 

Seriously i had chinese apply for higher jobs with a phd who couldnt even write a resume where the font is looking somewhat professional.

 

in all the probably 1000 interviews in china I didn't even have a single one that met my requirements that I put up on the job website. But their salary expectation were hillarious

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3 years 7 weeks ago
 
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shining, I think this is a global thing, I used to be the young guy calling some one an old fogey, but now I am the old fogey.

 

I had a company in America that I sold and retired and I started noticing young people with an attitude that I'm here, give me the job.

 

In California, half the applicants that would apply could not pass the drug test. why show up for a drug test and fail and waste half a day for a job you will not get, dont know, maybe better than playing a computer game in mom's basement.

 

Jobs that require meeting the public and people show up with tatoos and piercings on the neck and face. I have walked out of restaurants when servers look like this and spend my money somewhere else. why do you think people want to look at your artwork in a restaurant, don't know, the new age of tolerance,wtf,

 

if you ask any question about future plans, they get offensive like your invading their privacy, screw them, i will buy the robots.

 

I really think supply and demand economics should be taught in high school, I always hired the assholes, the workaholics with a bad attitude that nobody wanted and fired all the ass kissers.

 

I once ran an accounting department for HP with 26 deplorables that did the work of 126 ass kissers did the year before and beat all their deadlines, after that, I gave up on corporations and started my own.

 

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3 years 7 weeks ago
 
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In all my time of having a job I have never been late to work,I have tattoos but the kids know  me very well and the parents know  who Iam,

I take my job very serious but not really in a suit and tie type thing

 

I wear shorts chuck taylor converse shoes and rock music t.shirts and thats what every one has seen me in right from day one,I dont try to be someone Iam not

 

I care about the kindergarten children I teach,I do entertain the children as well.

 

when you teach kindergarten you have to be a teacher, father,mother,sister,brother,care giver all rolled into one.

 

I have worked in other jobs as well such as the Warehouse and Hoyts Cinema and Childcare centres and like I said I have always turned up to work on time or well before.

 

when i teach my classes I always put in the effort and try and do a good job.

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3 years 7 weeks ago
 
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The problem with most ESL jobs is that they want the best for nothing...so teachers may first join an ESL centre when first arriving in China but the chances of them working for one ever again are almost zero to none if they spend less than 3 years here. With that being said, if they are married to Chinese or consider China a permanent home they may work for an ESL centre but will require much higher compensation than the centre's are usually willing to pay. E.g. 13,000 RMB in Shanghai will get you people who are desperate or don't have the proper credentials or resume`s. 

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3 years 7 weeks ago
 
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interestingly i know many FT's who approach the whole area professionally, prepare for classes, research and actually give a flying unicorn to do a good job.

But the treatment by the schools, both public and private training centres, is abysmal, and sucks the life out of them, not to mention the dreadful pay.

 

most schools look for the cheap option and are not willing to pay for a professional approach, especially when a professional approach wlll show them up for what they are - exam mills, not educators.

 

by and large, schools (and parents) don;t want professional teachers who will challenge their 19th century mindset and education system.

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3 years 7 weeks ago
 
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It's rare to meet anyone here who has any sense of pride, integrity, or professionalism in their work.
I'm willing to bet that kind of environment attracts those kinds of people.

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3 years 7 weeks ago
 
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It isn't important what do you do ..... only Q is 'how do you do it'!

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3 years 7 weeks ago
 
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Hey Shining, 

 

I actually read your post before putting "Do you get paid? Then yes it is a job!"

 

To be honest, I think people are just getting lazier and more entitled. Most people think the world owes them something and that the world has cheated them, so why should THEY have to work for YOU? I often try to work with freelancers to outsource some of my projects and like Zethe says... very FEW actually take their job seriously. 

 

Most just do it to get by while having fun and screwing around in the meantime. ESL fits that mold perfectly so it just happens to attract those types. 

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3 years 7 weeks ago
 
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After teaching in China for 6 years, I can see why you would ask this question! The ESL situation appears to be getting worse as time goes on. One is the pay is getting less while the government is tightening up on qualifications. Biggi123 has some valid points. But the problems are really profiteering, and the education system. I worked in public schools and colleges. It was pretty descent even if the compensation package worked out to only 150 rmb per hour over the two semesters. The issue here was the disparity in the English level of the students, hence the education system. I have heard a lot of awful stories about training schools though. For the training schools the problem is profiteering. I have to admit I have never really been screwed over by a school nor a recruiter. As for ESL teachers. I have run into a few who I wouldn't hire for any job. But that happens in any country, not just China. Teaching is a "people person job(profession)" ESL in China is slowly becoming a job rather than a profession. Maybe it always has been considering that mom and dad just need money and the kid doesn't have to know anything. If that is the case; why should ESL be considered a "real job"

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3 years 7 weeks ago
 
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