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Posts: 3494

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Q: In Fact, Do You Really Think Life is Cheaper in China?

Monthly salary V cost and quality of living.....compared to your country?

 

I just paid Y38 for a piddly little bowl of rubbish.  Couldn't possibly pass muster at any legal restaurant in any accountable country in the world.

And recently paid Y500 for a night in a hotel that would be shut down for failing every govt minimum standard in a 'developed' country.

Or, are there perhaps other reasons for you to be here?

For me, yes.

For you....?

 

 

10 years 12 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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My monthly income never changes. I find rent and utilities cheap, eating out isn't expensive , even in better restaurants. I can eat well on street food for 10Y. I've stayed in hotels that were 150 and were Ok, 240 is better but also 5 star hotels in Beijing etc when travelling, don't remember what I paid, but they were nice.

 I find China way cheaper than home except for clothing and electronics etc. 

 I like more things in China than not, I like my life style better in China. I actually hate my life in Canada and I'm pretty well off, cars, house is paid for, steady income. I have a nice big house on 4 acres over looking a lake. I hate mowing the lawn, shovelling snow and there isn't much to do or see. China is like a big circus.

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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I think you've got a bad guide book royce. 

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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If I was living on a teachers wages in China ,the cost would be the same as any other part of the world. If I lived in China on Australian wages I would be saving like crazy.                                                                                                                 edit when i read your title of the post I thought it was about the cost of human life being cheap in China .

royceH:

Yeah, it occurred to me too, Phil.  Didn't rephrase it though...just decided to let it ride and see what falls out.

 

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Yes, you need to find the good local food. I've had a bowl or two of "Find The Chicken! Hahaha" stew myself.

Yes, about the same salary as home with no rent, no car, and cheaper food. I simply save more here. 

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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Everyone has their one point of view about life and china but for italians, spaniards china is expensive specially big towns like beijing or Shanghai, rent, food. If you are spanierd or italian and want to settle down in china, marry, etc with around 15.000 yuans for sure is not the place. You also have to pay taxes in europe fofr welfare when you get retired, health insurance, it is really difficult to save money.

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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Right now i have broken even , especially after getting married. but overall life has been cheaper in china.

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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when i first got here it was very cheap.  i was eating street food, bumming it in cheap hotels, etc.  now, street food terrifies me and im willing to pay much more for quality hotels.  but my income has also raised drastically.  all in all, life is much cheaper here for me than california ever was. 

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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To me, life in China is quite cheaper. Housing and food represent about 10% of my income. In Europe, it was 40%. That said, I always lived frugally, both in Europe and China : I cook at home, local food only, no air-con or heating, no new gadgets every year, simple clothes, I commute by bike, I travel in guest houses, bus and train. You find decent hotels for 200 to 300 RMB, I eat well for 15 to 25 RMB. If I was trying to live as closely as possible as I was in Europe, Europe would be cheaper, however.

Red_Fox:

I use comparative housing costs as a benchmark, too. In China, the cost of my rental flat represents 1/8 of my take-home pay. In the West (US and Spain), rent usually ran from 1/4 to 1/3 of my monthly wages. And my flat in China is about twice the size of what I had back in the West.

Utilities are also cheaper here, so saving money there, as well.

Don't have a car - had a Jeep in the States - so that is one headache and money drain I don't need to deal with.

Public transit is way cheaper here: public bus is 1 kuai, taxi flagfall 9 kuai. Back home in the States, it cost 1 USD to take the bus. Taxis were too expensive reserved only in an emergency.

Food is cheaper except for imported foodstuffs. And I do buy imported wine, cheese, salmon, other goodies, with part of the money I save by paying a low rent and not having a car. It's a trade-off.

Clothing. Have enough clothing to last me a long time so don't buy it here.

All said and done, I am able to save about 50% of my earnings. Lucky if my savings in the West came to 10%.

So, yeah, cost of living is lower here. Quality of life and "happiness index" are another matter...

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Shifu

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i would say it can be both, just depending on your lifestyle.

 

we all know western products in china are much more expensive, the chinese products on the other hand are much cheaper.

 

rent is equal - but quality way worse in china

street food is very cheap, restaurants have equal prices

hotels can be top or flop, but i rarely need one

 

all in all china becomes much more expensive thse days

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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China is more expensive for me, or at least the same as the UK in terms of food etc. I use Western brand toiletries and am not really a fan of cheap Chinese food. Housing is cheaper, but in that the quality is cheaper too. No heat and no insulation? No thanks! So I end up paying the same more or less after huge heating bills.

Nessquick:

yep, heating is hell here :(

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Shifu

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China isn't cheap at all, at least not in terms of providing a good value inexpensively. You can spend very little here but you're making huge compromises in your living standards. If having the same quality is important to you it is almost always more expensive.

 

People's expectations are lower here...you can live pretty bummy here and still have it better than most, but that's nothing to be proud of.

andy74rc:

You nailed it.

10 years 12 weeks ago
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I find it much much much cheaper.  The housing is crazy, maybe 7% of my income,  and my wife cooks daily. Maybe 300 a week on food.  Gas is around the same, but car insurance, in 20% of the price. Utilities i pay is...... i forget, its that low.

 

This of course isnt any choice of mine, although shenzhen is expensive, i live in a poop farm town near my factory, so i love my new apartment, but still only 2500 for a one bedroom, but its really comfy. No western pubs or restaurants anywhere close, and i dont like chinese food. The wifey has found what i like and cooks exactly how i like it.... so, that means meat with no fat or bones. 

 

On weekends we drive into town and blow all our cash on real food and stuff we need.

 

People just need to find a system,  the fact is, if you live completely like a foreigner, and must have foreigner apartment, in the city center, and only eat western food, and only buy imported products, of course it will be more expensive.   And when you compare it to home, really, how many of you had a luxery apartment right in the city center of say New York? that would be tooo expensive for anyone, yet you manage it here, so of course its cheaper.

Paulberger:

exactly, i think its all about finding a system that works for you.

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Nessquick:

You wife is good. My wife cook only the way she like it, which I don't :(

10 years 12 weeks ago
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mike695ca:

hahaha heres what you do. Next time she cooks, throw a temper tantrum how its really hard to be a foreigner in china, as her if she thinks if she lived abroad, she would want to eat bread everyday. Then leave and get a pizza.

 

Do this a few times, and shell try to find a way.

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Shifu

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I do not think is cheaper here than back home. The food price is similar, and if you compare 0,7Euro in Czech to 3Euro here for 1 loaf of bread, you get your numbers. Housing may be cheaper here, but the medical care is something uncomparable with the almost free care if you pay insurance. In czech we pay taxes and so on, but it is outweighted with the medical care and retirement paychecks and all that sh1t, almost every village have local trains, easy going to anywhere.

Some years ago, Germans come to Czech for cheap gasoline, some foods in restaurants and so on. Now is changed and Czechs are going to Germany for saving money and get better stuff for the earned money. While here, you havbe to pay 3-4-5 fold more than you pay back home for same stuff, even you can get here relatively cheap lunch, you can compare it to what you get back home with the quality for the price ...

expatlife26:

yeah plus the health care here isn't real. If americans wanted to go get an IV bag of salt water and vitamins we could go for $5 as well. We also know better.

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

On the medical care topic. Hospitalization in China may be cheap per day, but yor chance of survival is a lot lower and the average duration of your stay is 3-4 times that of OECD countries 

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I think salaries have alot to do with it as well. While shanghai or beijing is more expensive for apartments, the food prices are almost a wash  between all cities, especially for western food. Yet the salary gap between foreigners in China, is waaaay bigger than any housing price gap.

For a University teacher in sichuan or something making 6 or 7 a month, its not so cheap. But for a teacher in a training center in a large city for example making 15-20, they find it much cheaper and easier to save.

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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If you want a quality of life roughly equivalent to whatever developed country in a tier 1 city, then costs will be more or less the same.

 

But in such a huge country, ifs can really change many things from a situation to another, so it's hard to determine. The false impression that China is a cheap country comes from the fact that the absence of properly enforced norms enables people to dig really really deep to cut the costs if they are willing to sacrifice their quality of life.

 

Average quality food is more expensive than any other country.

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Shifu

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Everything is relative really, isn't it? You get a lower salary here than you would back home but hey, how many hours are you working? On my salary I couldn't survive in Beijing or Shanghai but then again if I was living there they would be paying me a bigger salary right?

I save 70% of my salary monthly and I live pretty well and in a nice apartment. I cook 85% of my own food, western style. I eat out whenever I like but it's winter, so I don't muck about outside too much in -20C,

Every 6 months I travel to another country. I can't remember EVER doing that when i was back home working.

I download and watch whatever I like in the way of movies and I can watch my Aussie Rules for $150AUD a season on live stream. The cost of those two bits of entertainment alone in Australia would be about $250 a month with internet download costs and having Foxtel!!

While I agree that there are some things difficult to put up with here, in the end you make it what you want it to be. A lifestyle, an adventure, an experience, a money saver or a travel stop. But whichever you choose you need to at least enjoy it most of the time. And yes, I find it enormously cheaper.

Scandinavian:

the part about traveling. It's massively more difficult for us to travel since we've moved to China. The cost in getting a visa for my wife is mindboggeling. 

 

And yes. Time is money. So much time is wasted in China. 

 

10 years 12 weeks ago
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DaqingDevil:

Scand - does your wife need a visa for every country you want to visit? For a holiday I mean? Because she's Chinese? Australians don't need a visa for many countries in SE Asia (apart from China) but I did need to pay for visas to Hungary, Austria and Slovenia.

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

@Devil Well, she needs for more countries than she did when she had a EU residence permit to go along her passport. She could even enter Hong Kong and Macau using her Chinese visa free passport as long as she also had that small piece of plastic. 

Application for US visa was done using the EU residence permit as documentation, the requirements for her to go to the US are similar to what they are for me. Now.... Hmmm, bank guarantees, letters from employers, lots of trips to translation office. 

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I think China is such a place of extreme where for example dinner can range from 5RMB - 500RMB. 

 

Take a beer for example. In Beijing you'll pay around 4RMB for a Yanjing at a small barbecue spot but go to a foreign/decent bar on the same street and you can pay up to 80RMB a beer.

 

I guess it boils down to what you do and where you want to go but if you want to live the 'expat life' it ain't cheap.

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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It's cheap to survive in China. It's very expensive to live. (that's relative to income) I wouldn't dare imagining what a quality apartment would cost in China. The cheap crap available here is on par with many European bigger cities. 

There will be BIG regional differences in the perception of cost of living.

I wonder if the Big Mac index has ever been done for different provinces/cities in China

dom87:

quality apartment in shanghai is 10k+

checked them out by myself. western standart starts at 10k, not cheaper or more expensive than in any german big city

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

does it have real wooden floors, does it have insulation, does it have windows that close and don't leak ? it's not quality is it !!!

10 years 12 weeks ago
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TMaster:

Plus there's the fact that unstable policies may turn your enjoyable living environment of today into a shithole because gov found a new showcase district and stops giving a shit about your location/property management doesn't do its job and no one cares/community people ruined it because they just can't respect anything.

 

I don't play casino, so I don't think there's such thing as a "quality appartment" on the long run.

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

@TMaster. Yup. You can see it. When I was first in Zhuhai I visited some friends of the wife, living in their new fancy apartments. Now some years later. They still live in the same places, the shops lining the outside of the communities built 5 years ago are slowly turning into what looks like bike repair shops and China Mobile shops. The buildings are not maintained, slowly starting to look 10 times their age. 

There is an exception to that rule though. There is one community where the mayor lives, the same community also has the CEO of the construction company that has built most of the city. I would put my money on that that community will remain in decent order as long as these people live there. Of course these people will have to move at some point to not loose face for living in an "old" community. 

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Nessquick:

I can not imagine back home, that someone is sticking advertising on the whole elevater wall, hall walls , or drawing and painting numbers on the walls inside the houses, like here they do with passion.

Ok, they have grafiti issues back home, but not every house. And those old farts collecting paper boxes and bamboo sticks, putting them in the doorway, all the hallway to our door is cloged with ebikes every day and when you touch them, they start with alarm sounds... this is unimaginable back home, and I will rather pay more for comfy house which already lasted more than 100 years, stay there and will be there another 50, maybe 100 years in the same condition and perfect looking. time by time repaint, change windows, and woala...

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

@Ness. Some places the lifts have speakers in the ceiling blasting out the sound that goes with the flat screen on the wall of the lift. 

 

Whenever you hear early movers (the expats from the 1990'ies) they will sometimes talk about the extreme lack of commercialism. That sure has changed.

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Shifu

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the point is:

why do you come to china to live an expat life?

its pretty stupid to live an expat life in another country, then it would be just easier to go back home Oups

Scandinavian:

I wouldn't be an expat in my home country would I, my wife would though, but she doesn't have the courtesy to yell "HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" at me each time she sees me.... what a way to wake up in the morning. 

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Rin:

I never got food poisoning before back home, I've had it a bunch of times in China. I prefer not to eat Chinese food too often now. Is that leading an 'expat life'?

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Nessquick:

We did not come here living expat life. But common thing as milk - double price. tell me or my son, do not drink milk then ? do not put honey on your bread ? why ? I have had problems to buy even piece of cheese every month, do not talk about have it almost daily back home. Ok, salary was about 6k plus occasional side-money, which took for several month salaries value. ( for compare, having 18k CzK is a good salary back home. average salary in Czech is like 24k (900 Eur) but this include top management and goverment+president salalries

Eat pork every day ? no nutritional value, just " nice smell" as chinese say. we need beef and chicken. find a good beef is a lottery. And do not mean those 200kuai/jin in cityshop... Just a little better standart of living need to be. survive you can anywhere, in china, in czech, in usa, in afrika bush or alaska. life is too short to just survive the life ...

10 years 12 weeks ago
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dom87:

uhm 8 rmb for milk is not like an "expat life", how much milk do you drink? Oo

 

expat life is more or less spending 20k / monthly for food. often read this from some retardos. living in their expat compounds for 15k/month

sure they got a good deal and maybe they deserves it and for them its mostly different why they came to china.

 

dont get me wrong, I am definitly NOT a fan of chinese food. but also i am not a fan of the western food here... whats left? cooking western style by myself

10 years 12 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

I think I know a thing or two about expatlife haha. The people you're talking about who live in those compounds etc. didn't come here to "live the expat life" they came here to live. To them that might mean trying some interesting chinese dishes while they are out, but steadfastly preferring a PB&J on good bread to a baozi at home and preferring to live in comfortable homes similar to what they used to. Are they supposed to be on some multi-year cultural hardship vacation?

They might own businesses or were sent by a western company or were hired here, but aren't really interested in all of the compromises of living cheap in a chaotic, fairly dirty country.

It doesn't make them stupid and it doesn't prove anything to live "Chinese"...1.4 billion of them do it, it doesn't make you tough or clever. Do you really look at the Chinese and think "Now these guys have it all figured out!"? If someone can afford to responsibly live the way they did at home here more power to 'em! To me that proves a lot more about someone than living like billions of people have no choice to.

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Scandinavian:

Actually Nessi, maybe you should tell your son not to drink milk in China. 

 

http://www.eeo.com.cn/ens/biz_commentary/2009/05/25/138475.shtml I know he needs it for his bones to grow, but there are other sources of calcium, all of which are probably equally full of crap. We do buy Chinese milk, there is a GD brand producing real fresh milk, that tastes like the real deal. But recently, 9 in 10 liters of milk consumed in my home is imported. 

10 years 12 weeks ago
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dom87:

@expatlife

thats exactly what i wrote, mostly they have different reasons why they come to china. I dont blame them for living only with expats spending unreasonable money for every shit.

but there are people who came to china because they "like" china and wanna "live" the culture and yet they stay only with expats and eat western food. that is what i call stupid

 

but i also call these so called "expats" stupid who tell other young people its impossible to live on 30k RMB a month in china

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Shifu

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Life in China by a minimum western standard is as expensive as the same living standard in my home country (North Italy). Which makes it stupidly expensive considering you get most of the time, for the same amount of money, no quality and no service.

Living in China on a bowl of rice with a spoon of veggies every day is cheap. So it is  living in Italy on a bowl of spaghetti.

Then put pollution on top, which it should be rightly considered as another economic factor in the equation.

Fact for me: I did like living in China much more 6-7-8 years ago than today even if many things were not available back then, but everything was REALLY cheap, so much easier to cope with the environment.

Today: same shit, 3 times the price.

 

 

 

expatlife26:

Right, if you wanted to live in a concrete block house with no amenities, it would be cheap anywhere

 

if you wanted to eat only very cheap ingredients it would be cheap anywhere

 

For the quality you get here...it is overpriced.

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Shifu

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Scandi reminds me one thing.

When I came to China, I have paid 8rmb for my Doublecheese in McDonalds. some time passed and I paid 9,5, than 10. Last friday I was freaked out when they asked 14rmb for the very same doublecheese... hot chocolate i used to pay 6rmb, now is 10...

Jona:

How long ago was it 8 kuai?

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Nessquick:

2006 I came here, and 2007 I discovered first McDonalds in Yiwu

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Jona:

That's a while back.

I bet salaries haven't increased as much.

Have you noted other items in shops increase as much?

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Nessquick:

meat, veggies, all up, coke i was getting from 5rmb 2L, now is 8rmb

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Nessquick:

only cigerets are keeping the price same :D

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dom87:

2L coke here in shanghai is I think 5,9RMB btw.

mc donalds burger also got more expensive in germany, like everywhere else on the world.

btw in HK you still get a mc double for 10 HK$

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Nessquick:

coke for 5,9 ? where you buy them please ? 

10 years 12 weeks ago
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mike695ca:

its called inflation. mcdonalds has gone up in every country since 2006. hasnt your salary increased since then? teachers salaries have also inflated since then, and mix in your job progression over time and it should more than make up for a couple kuai difference in a burger.

10 years 12 weeks ago
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Nessquick:

I know what is inflation man. 100% in 5 years ...

but salary here does not increase for me, the exboss even find some reasons to cut our salaries ... :-))

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For me personally, it's not bad. I'm from Melbourne, Australia and there housing (buying or renting) prices went beyond a joke nearly a decade ago and never came back to sane levels. Prices for pretty much everything else are fierce too.

Here, the base salary might not seem impressive, but once you include the apartment (a pretty reasonable one, in my opinion) and the bills that are all paid for (as long as you don't use enough electricity to be running a hydroponic dope farm) + bonuses, the ledger starts squaring up reasonably well. Also, I work a lot less hours to get that income package than I did in Melbourne and still get reasonable holidays (roughly 6-7 weeks a year in total).

Up here in Harbin, there are enough western goods to tend to the homesick, but of course they're not cheap. In any case, I'm largely fine with Chinese style food and can cook it myself so my food spending isn't too much. My main single expense would be Chinese lessons (800/month) and after food and other groceries I don't tend to go shopping much. I can save enough to fly to Australia or Ireland every six months or so and still have a month or two's salary in the bank.

Basically, I could save at least half of my income without even trying. I could probably save three quarters if I went full on tightarse, but there's no real need. If I moved to Shanghai/Beijing/et al I would save more since my lifestyle and spending habits wouldn't change much. By and large, this is the most important part. If you move here with an open mind and are willing to get into Chinese things such as food (if you don't trust the restaurants, then learn to cook yourself!), then you can save a reasonable if not amazing amount of money. But if you just try to transplant your home country life to China, of course things are going to look expensive. And anyone looking for the proverbial soup van at the end of the month on a typical English teacher's wage is an innumerate idiot.

 

DaqingDevil:

A Melbourne boy! I'll be there Jan. 30th visiting family. I get to Harbin occasionally. Enjoying the winter?

10 years 12 weeks ago
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philbravery:

temp in Melbourne today is a top of 19deg in Brisbane 41 f##king deg                                                                                                                  Mudanjiang  -23 deg?  Melbourne is looking good to me today

10 years 12 weeks ago
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seanpodge:

@DaqingDevil: It's been a bit mild this winter so not so much. I moved to Harbin BECAUSE it's cold. I've only had about one or two days where I've really felt pained because of the cold. Otherwise it's pretty unspectacular. The ice and snow festival was actually delayed by a week or so this year because of the weather.

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Life isn't less expensive, but it is cheaper (lower quality).  It's hard to compare to the west.  I can't buy a comparable house (quality wise) no matter how much money I spend.  They don't exist in China.  It goes the same for city services or even a decent roll of toilet paper.  I've almost forgotten what 3-ply means or how it feels.   On the other hand, I have seen things that break the cheapness scale and can't even be imagined in my home country.  China is China and the western countries have their own lifestyle.  Comparing them is like comparing apples to oranges.  You can spend much less money here to live, but that will come with a commensurate drop in quality.

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I personally think life is a bit cheap but how cheap is cheap matters looking at it from different perspective for instance if you cook for yourself the better, rent not bad, clothing a bit expensive, above all average life not bad.

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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No you have to pay at least double or triple for what you would the same quality back home.

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10 years 12 weeks ago
 
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