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Q: Is this forum full of trolls?
I have asked a few questions, and most people don't provide me with answers. Most are trolls who noticed I missed a letter here or failed to capitalize a litter there. Then they defame me over and over again. Another time I asked for serious answers only to get silly jokes. A few people gave me useful information, which I am thankful for.
This forum seems like a nice place to relax and lambaste others, but that isn't what I am looking for. I am new to China and trying to learn a bit more about it. Should I stick around here and hope for sanity or should someone point me toward a place where people are more constructive and can provide me with clean and clear answers.
I don't know about trolls, but it sure has been the place for repetitive questions, lately? Rephrasing a question when you don't like the answer really doesn't work. You will probably get the same answer.
This forum is a good place to get real answers to real questions. Take a look at what you have asked thus far;
Working Illegally:
http://answers.echinacities.com/question/working-tourist-visa
http://answers.echinacities.com/question/teaching-11-without-work-visa
Fishing for women:
http://answers.echinacities.com/question/where-find-leftover-women
Woe-is-me:
http://answers.echinacities.com/question/are-there-no-ngos-will-hire-me
And now you are whining. There you go, a clean and clear answer, just like you desired.
airyk:
I am new and trying to find out information. It makes sense to ask multiple questions. Yes I asked one question 2x, but when all responses were nonsense or troll remarks I had to find the truth. Luckily some real information did get past the barrage of trolls.
I have never been abused by the regular and real posters on this forum. The core of guys here are informative about China and it's cultural differences and provide me with solace when needed.
Defamation happens here when provocation happens.
Rubbish, plenty of people come on here, start posting and are accepted with few or no major issues: just in the last few weeks thoughtful posters like scandinavian, amonk and ambivalentmace have showed up and gotten along fine with the old timers.
Instead of complaining about your 'echinacities answers' experience; why not just get real with everyone here and be more open about your whole 'evil master plan?' Just say this to everyone okay; "Hello, I am your average Chinese foreigner-bashing state-worker. I am here to defame any and all 'laowai' as both I see-fit and as stated accordingly in my employee handbook. Furthermore, would everyone here please dispense with formalities and just please tell me 'where do all the laowai do their dirty deeds?' And by dirty deeds I mean 'find throw-away ladies,' 'obtain perhaps illegal visas,' 'buy drugs, guns, etc..,' and all other what-not that would help me further my career. Thank you kindly. Good Day.' Just do this and you will find far greater success than your current endeavor allows. Cheers mate! ![]()
airyk:
:D see this isn't a troll remark, it might be wrong but its funny.
i did not know about echinacities until i arrived here in china for about a year,
i dont know if your a troll and does not matter to me, i am a little more open about my deeds than others because i had the privilege to train chinese troops while serving in the french foreign legion outside guangzhou 25 years ago and some of those men are now important officers in the party.
that being said ,most people are not foolish enough to talk about doing things that are perceived unethical, illegal or dishonest on a website originating from china.
if you need this info, i can get 300 pages of questions and answers from daveseslcafe that have accumulated in the chinese job forum over the years and not subject to chinese oversight, but this is not the place because unlike our chinese counterparts we are very skeptical of big brother. love your country, fear your government is ingrained in our natural thinking, my distrust is so great i never leave a paper trail and always pay cash for everything. if your truly a western teacher , your very naive, if your a chinese worker, your insulting the people who are here to teach and vent, perhaps they will get pissed off and write another book banned here and loved in the west for glorifying your 5000 year existence, sorry i dont think it deserves the word culture.
airyk:
So i take it most of the attacks originate because people think I'm Chinese - Because I am so nieve? Will the government really check this site?
Hi airyk.
I try to stay away from any questions about "trolls", as I think they are usually a big waste of time that leads to a bunch of useless finger pointing and name calling... But at the same time, I'm getting pretty tired of the "core" users on this board constantly proclaiming that new users who show up and ask XYZ question are automatically Chinese wumao, subversively trying make foreigners look bad or just blatantly attacking us (as if there are no foreigners that hate other foreigners or have otherwise ulterior motives for acting like assholes in an anonymous online setting). As such, I'll assume for the moment that you are not a wumao and I will try to explain why other users might have gone off trolling you on your previous questions, giving you that dreaded "wumao" label.
From my personal experience, China has dramatically changed in the 6 years since I first started coming here. Back in 2007, visa laws were much more lax, anti-foreigner sentiment (at least as I perceived it) was much more subdued, and "face jobs" were much easier to get. This in part gave other foreigners the impression that this country was sort of a "Wild West" where you could come and do as you please. However, since then, visa laws have cracked down, anti-foreigner sentiment is on the rise (wumaos are no doubt a reflection of this) and face jobs are going away. I am not sure foreigners now coming here are aware of these changes.
At the same time, many of the foreigners that remain here in this changing setting are getting tired of being lumped in with the boozing, womanizing, illegally working expats of yesteryear (and the new batches). Moreover, I think that a lot of these same "long term" expats frequent this board, and that after dealing with dozens of the same questions about "how to work on a tourist visa" or "how to pick up easy Chinese girls", they've simply had enough. Unfortunately for you, your first questions on this board are of the same type that are typically asked by wumao trying to make foreigners look bad.
The reason I am not going to immediately write you off as a wumao is because I too had many of the same types of questions when I first moved here (that and as far as I can tell, you haven't asked a blatant "Foreigners are evil" question yet). In the time since I've lived here though, I've realized that China is not simply my playground, and I've (hopefully) grown up a bit. Also, I read somewhere that in all online forums, once a core set of users is developed, it is a natural tendency to gang up on newer users, and I don't wish to do that here.
I sincerely hope that you are not a wumao, and in fact just asked "the wrong questions", giving everyone the wrong impression of your intentions on the board.
Amonk:
If someone really wanted introductory information to teaching in China; middlekingdomlife.com . Now that he has access to all the answers he's looking for, he'll not come back here until he has a basic competency in China... right?
...right?
airyk:
Tang-peter, great information, I guess I see what happened, thanks for the clarity.
The Troll
Be wary of the loathsome troll
that slyly lies in wait
to drag you to his dingy hole
and put you on his plate.
His blood is black and boiling hot,
he gurgles ghastly groans.
He'll cook you in his dinner pot,
your skin, your flesh, your bones.
He'll catch your arms and clutch your legs
and grind you to a pulp,
then swallow you like scrambled eggs--
gobble! gobble! gulp!
So watch your steps when next you go
upon a pleasant stroll,
or you might end up in the pit below
as supper for the troll.
Author: Jack Prelutsky
* I am not a Troll, I am a Warlock (Magic Seeker - Level V)
The reason you've been labelled a 'troll' on here, is not just as Peter-Tang explained (which is quite accurate, btw!), but because you're first question was about teaching on an L visa... which I'm pretty sure you know is illegal (a 1 min google search would have answered that for you!). The answer you got was 100% accurate! Philbravery answered you quite clearly, and tactfully! He didn't call you out as a troll, and didn't seem particularly nasty - he just put it in your face.
Traveler followed up with another correct answer - if you're qualified, get the right visa!
However, your first comment to Traveler's post says it all... just for a reminder, I'll re-post it - "
I've only met a few foreigners in China, most seem to be undereducated perverts and somehow they have work visas. I think the only requirement to get a work visa here is white skin."
Seriously! That's 100% troll-speak!!!
Not only that, but after being given the benefit of the doubt (you're legit, and not a troll) you then try to defend your intention to clearly ignore the legitimate advice you've been given! In doing so, you insult all legitimate teachers here!!!
Then, you post about looking for "left over women" (when your first post mentions you're here with your girlfriend... how... odd!
Your NGO post has now gone, so I can't detail that one...
But you then ask about 1:1 teaching, and imply that your previous question was met with BS... Once again, you've been met with some accurate answers (no, working in China without a proper Z visa is illegal - paid or not!!!) You also suggest that having a PhD in Public Admin and Health/Stats 'qualifies' you to teach GRE/GMAT/MCAT... so, you have a PhD in a totally unrelated field makes you qualified to teach now???
Granted, the Chinese education system sucks, and there are far too many people 'teaching' here that shouldn't be... but you're only looking to do it for a few weeks, and you're considering giving the money away (or so you say...).
You're apparently a smart one... you tell us why people might think you're a troll!
airyk:
I asked my teaching question again because so many people suggested I look for a teaching job. I am not a teacher, I don't want to teach but I feel that I can tutor on exams that are all in my field.
I won't bother defending the other things, you missed quite a few other data points and came to your own conclusion.
Shining_brow:
So, you don't acknowledge that saying most foreign teachers you've met are perverts would be considered 'troll-speak'??
And, you still don't think your first post was sufficiently answered correctly, and informatively, and you still feel you ought to have defended your 'right' to teach in China on an L visa??
And, I also presume you don't see anything insulting about asking qualifiedi and experienced, legitimate teachers on this board if we think it's ok for someone with NO teaching experience (that you've mentioned) in a field completely unrelated to English to teach for exam preparation... (that's after the insult about 'perverts')
"so many people suggested I look for a teaching job".... who are those people? The ones on this board?? Cos, I've seen a couple suggest that you get a legitimate teaching job with a visa, if you're qualified for it. If, however, you're referring to people in your immediate environment, then you need to get it into their heads (as we tried into your head) that without a legal Z visa,TEACHING.WOULD.BE.ILLEGAL!
I went over your posts, I find no other 'data points' that are relevant!
IFF you're capable of tutoring (and even teaching) stuff that is relevant to your field, go for it! If you choose to do it on an L visa - good luck! But, if you're caught, I hope you can take responsibility for your actions, and gladly suffer the consequences. If you're not, then either don't teach, or get legal!
airyk:
Thank you for the tips.
Yes I did some troll speak of my own, I am guilty of that.
The first bit of advise wasn't taken seriously so I didn't take it seriously. So i rewrote it. I enjoyed Hulks response. I would have liked more detailed responses. Like if five hours per week tutoring 1:1 is particularly dangerous. Luckily I did learn that China is not the wild west like Africa and South East Asia and has been cracking down. So perhaps even 5 hours would be unacceptable.
I do think I would be qualified to prep for those exams. For example who better to tutor the GRE math section then a statistician? Perhaps some other form of mathematician, but honesty for the GRE were have all covered that material equally.
Thanks again for all of your advice.
It takes one to know one. You yourself would know more about the answer to this question than anybody else.
also public administration is not a popular major in the west but it damn sure is in china if you want a good long term bribe government position job. i would say your major is something else.
ambivalentmace:
i would not tell people your major is public administration, paranoid people think thats another way of saying 'you control people , you control cities', some people dont want to think some guy is planning their life like a hamster in a cage , when the truth is somebody is doing this to us all the time. we are all hamsters to certain degree.
it makes you appear chinese to mention public administration because if you work in a government position in china in this field , you get bribes from developers and sometimes a free house depending on the position you have. everybody wants this job in china.
I rarely see anyone here do the snotty English lesson thing. Let's see some examples.
airyk:
Most were simple taunts, one was a very useful one which taught me a bit. So hopefully they will keep coming as constructive advice :)
I have read many posts on here already myself. Perhaps it feels as though people are trolling. But if you keep a sense of humour and laugh it off as well as ignoring those who are blatantly trying to provoke a response, I think you should be fine.
I personally have only posted a few things so far, and already been corrected or asked to clarify my questions. I just smile, agree and edit if necessary. Best lesson learned is the ability to laugh at oneself instead of falling out with others. You might find it a lot easier then.
If it is, I think you just brought the "Troll Toll" up a notch! Don't you think?!?


























