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Posts: 352

Shifu

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Q: gaining face culture

I wonder what face culture means to Chinese people, I read about it a little through books and internet and see how applying this principle works in real life . I faced few problems during my staying here and I noticed that you can never let Chinese lose face if you did they will likely avoid working and dealing with you but at the same time it's acceptable to them to let you lose face ( as foreigner) in public . I also noticed it's very okay to lie in order to get what they want but they are usually over sensitive to any tiny lies from me and those tiny lies will be told to everyone they know. 

 I don't feel I am getting any reward from applying that principle It seems like I am often to be ended up as a vicious foreigner liar.

Any tips how to master face culture? how to react as a foreigner when someone try to let you lose your face in front of others ?

 

9 years 36 weeks ago in  Culture - China

 
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Emperor

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I simply don't care about it. If someone looses face because of me, then I am sure it is their wrongdoing that is the source of the problems. As long as you are behaved normally, it's none of your problem they everyone is playing a childish game of face. 

hunny797:

I agree to that too....like vicky tried to do a publicity stunt, although she got the wrong person..but who cares!!!!!

9 years 36 weeks ago
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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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I'm not sure there is a good strategy. It's like admitting that 1 + 0 = 1 : if you agree on this, then *anything* can equals to anything.

"face loss" is subjective by nature : it depends on your own sensibility, self-confidence, etc. Somebody with little self-confidence might be slighted by minor disappointments. "face loss" is also a loose/loose game:

* If you try to avoid face loss for others at all cost, then you can be exploited : "if you don't go like I wish, I will take it as a face loss".

* If you try to avoid face loss for yourself at all cost, you kill any personal initiative, as any interaction or initiative bring risks and a potential for face loss

So the best strategy, I think, it's to not play that game, because everybody loose at it. At worst it makes you easy to exploit, at best, it makes you very risk-adverse. When arguing or when I need to criticize something, I try to always leave an "honourable" escape route (99% blame but 1% compliment) and I avoid public humiliation. It makes me look like an overly strict and harsh person in the eyes of my Chinese colleagues (and students when I was teaching), but at least I got respected as a principled, rigorous person, and no hard feelings against me.

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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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Here's a look at face from a teacher's perspective (applies to the workplace as well):

 

Face is something you can never master if you aren't Chinese or Asian in general, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Here is a treatise on face (I didn't write this but I wish I did!):

 

There are some important rules of conduct in the classroom. The first and most important rule of Asian culture is that you must never ask a person a question that they don’t already know the answer to. Otherwise you will be making them “lose face”, a very offensive and serious matter in Asian culture. It’s equally important not to ask someone a question that they DO know the answer to, as you will then also be making them lose face as well as boring them, and establishing yourself as inferior to them.

 

This is equally true with writing activities, exams, homework, listening activities, grammar activities, role plays, pair work speaking exercises, and group projects. They must all be avoided as potential causes of loss of face.

 

You must definitely not criticize students in any way – even if they attempt to kill you. Attempting to explain something in class will cause great loss of face also, as it implies that the students do not understand something. At the same time keep in mind that you should never ask a student to explain something in class, as this would cause you to lose face and would thus mean you are a bad teacher, as well as making the student lose face.

 

It is unlikely that the students would ask you any questions of a grammatical nature, but you should not attempt to answer them if they do – this will cause the student to lose face. Failing to answer questions, however, especially the ones about why you aren’t married yet, will likely cause the students to complain about you as cold and unfriendly. And cause you to lose face.

 

Asking the students to play games, listen to pop songs, or watch films on video is likely to cause loss of face, since it will make the students feel as if you think they are children, incapable of serious study. Omitting these activities, however, is likely to cause loss of face because the students will feel you consider them in need of serious study.
 

Essentially, you must remember to do nothing else in class other than jump around and act stupid while talking about yourself and telling jokes. However, be advised that on some occasions this is likely to cause loss of face.

 

Arriving early in class is a definite no-no – that would indicate that you are not important. Arriving late to class is also offensive, as it would indicate that you think you are superior to whichever students arrived first. Arriving on-time is also a bad idea, as it would indicate you are inferior to the students who arrived late, yet superior to whichever students arrived early. This would cause a general loss of face.

 

A good way to please everyone is to skip class entirely, and don’t penalize your students for doing so.

 

Social relationships in Asia are an extremely complex and important part of life. Going out with the students and trying to shag locals will cause great offense to your students – they will consider you to be dishonorable and not serious. Failing to go out with students, on the other hand, will almost certainly offend them as you will be considered prejudiced against the local culture.

 

Speaking the local language is a sure way to cause loss of face – by this you are implying that the person you speak with is incapable of understanding English. Failing to speak the language will however cause immense offense to your students – why would you come to their country without learning the language? Getting drunk while in the presence of students will certainly offend them, and cause you to lose face, while failing to be as drunk as the students will cause them great loss of face. Drinking exactly the same amount as the students, however, is likely to cause you to lose face, and will offend students when they realize they are drinking with someone who has lost face.

 

Some Final Thoughts: In short, each and every thing you attempt to do is likely to cause the students to lose face, or for you to lose face. Failing to do certain things, however, is a sure way to cause them to lose face, or for you to lose face, which will cause them to lose face. Nothing is more face-losing than being taught by someone who has lost face. At the same time, having students who have lost face may cause you to lose more face, and a vicious circle may ensue from which one will never recover.

ambivalentmace:

i am in the twilight zone, no its just a hangover. 

9 years 36 weeks ago
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icnif77:

'He's back!'

I teach English, and I require English manners in my (last School Grade 3 - 6) class:

1. If student comes to the class after the bell, he/she is required to say: 'I'm sorry, I'm late!', (without further explanation of 'why'), and then sit down. I act the same, if I'm late for the class.

I never come in the class too early, even when Chinese teacher is coming with me and rushing to the class in kids break time. Why? I hated, when teacher came in the class in our break time, when I was same age. My fellows hated too, so kids today probably aren't any different. If I'm early for the class, I wait outside till the bell rings.

2. If boy hits or push the girl, he must stand-up, get pot with the flowers from the windowsill, and hand it to the girl with: 'I'm sorry!'. Chinese teachers know, I won't tolerate aggression in the Classroom, or anywhere else. Rest of the kids in the class enjoy that 'exercise'.

3. I promptly show them their mistakes they make in English, as that's my job. Face or no face! Chinese teacher always translate my message to the students in the first class as 'I'm here to help you, not to grade or punish you'. I invite them to ask me any Q they desire, and sometimes I help them with their homework or exam papers, the most often at the math.

4.'Final thought': in my Native language, we have saying (words match-up) translated to English 'my pump better pump than your pump (can) pump'. We skip verb 'can'. That's 'face', IMO!

Great Sino's post, and I'm tempted again to hijack AoD!

It's c&p, still great post.

9 years 36 weeks ago
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I just live by my own version of face.

 

1. If you treat me with respect I'll treat you with respect, and if I treat you with respect and you disrespect me then I don't care about trying to give to face, you'll be treated with whatever level of contempt you have coming.

 

2. Be honest in your dealings, and if others aren't honest with you they get called out on it. If they have a problem with that it's their problem, they shouldn't  try to cheat people.

 

3. I don't care what car you drive, or how much your cell phone or house cost , actually it bores me but if you do need to brag about these things then you need to have bought them with your own money, from a job that you got on your own merits. If your daddy bought them for you then it doesn't count.

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9 years 36 weeks ago
 
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I am going to say this as nicely as I can....

 

  they can take their 'face' and shove it up their ass~

 

*and personally it has been my observation that that social dictum has passed.  most all asians I know (granted they are mostly under 30 years of age) don't give two shits about it either.  they call things as they see them, with the nominal manners most humans employ in social/interpersonal relationships. 

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