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anonymous
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Q: Happy Hate Japan Day, everybody!

This is the day when air raid sirens remind the Chinese people how Japan invaded China, committed atrocities and murdered countless innocents.

I'd like to get my facts correct here, but Google is blocked, naturally.

Japan killed how many Chinese people? There's the 200k in Nanjing, but how many millions over the duration of the 8 year invasion? I'm looking for objective estimates, so no Japanese figures, as we know there is a bit of denial and covering up going on there in some schools. I also wouldn't trust Chinese government figures, but any non-Japanese casualty estimate will do, I guess. From memory, 19 million was the most quoted number; is that accurate?
There were of course the widely-known medical experiments and a fair bit of rape and torture going on, but the vast majority were killed quickly, which limited the amount of suffering. a lot of innocent civilians were killed as a result of Japan's horrible Scorched Earth Policy; they were fighting a nasty war with no intention of treating the Chinese people well.

Let's compare it with the rest of WWII, which involved much of the rest of the world, not just 2 countries.
79 million deaths, of which only 11 million were German and Japanese. It's clear that the Axis was a pretty f*cking awful force of evil. Dropping the Atom Bomb on Japan was perhaps an opportunistic act by the USA, but in the grand scheme of things, it does seem well deserved.

OK, now let's compare it with something totally different. A time of "internal struggle" during peacetime in a country we all know. "Mistakes" were made, as the most enlightened of its citizens are willing to admit. Though most people colourfully refer to those dark times as the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward. It was PEACETIME. People were being *tortured and executed* publicly for being educated (or merely in the process, when we talk about students), curious, smart, brave, honest, or just different. Innocent farmers were dragged from their fields to smelt steel, given poor equipment and instructions. Not only is the Red Guard still revered as a legendary force of good in said country, the glorious leader who initiated all the killing is still honoured with his face on all the country's money, and children receiving Red Guard "education" are taught to sing songs praising him.
The final western scholar who refused to attribute deaths in the Great Leap Forward to Glorious Leader Chairman X finally came around when he read old government documents by the CCP. In these documents, it is clear that X knew about the overreporting of grain & rice produce by officials in his provinces, was aware that this would lead to mass starvation, but still sought to export even *more* food, so he could pocket a bit of the profits personally. It took a congregation of 6000 Party officials to stop him from doing worse.
A number. Hard to estimate, since this country kept its internal affairs very quiet. This is one estimation I could find on a single remaining unblocked search engine whose name I dare not mention here:
"Chairman X (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000"
OK, the Tibet war should be subtracted, since I'm interested in *peacetime* killings. But since the country wasn't densely populated, I'd be surprised if it goes over 2 million.

Congratulations, Chairman X! You successfully killed less of your own people through starvation, torture and execution than all the world could kill during wartime. I believe such minor achievements by incompetent officials are applauded in your country, so let's give him a round, everybody!

I'm at a loss what to make of this "Hate Japan" day. Should Japan be hated for not killing *enough* Chinese people to gain demigod status? Do we throw tomatoes at them merely because they LOST the war? Hate Japan for fighting with Nationalist China, while said regime was engaged in an internal struggle with the Communist regime, ultimately causing most of China to be controlled by a dismal dictatorship? Remember the atrocities committed by Japan, but forget the Chairman's? It's all a big distraction of course; anything to ignore the elephant in the room.

Happy Hate Japan Day, everyone! Be glad the world makes more sense for the rest of us.

9 years 27 weeks ago in  Culture - China

 
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Emperor

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How dare you post such a thing amonymously!
I know who you are Wink

Shining_brow:

What a coincidence - you being on within 1 minute of that post... :) (would you like me to delete this comment??)

9 years 27 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Oops. It seems I may have blown my cover. So reckless. I really regret commenting so quickly. It's like they say here in China: "If you were truly sorry, you wouldn't have done it in the first place." Which leads me to wonder why there is even a word for 'Sorry' in Chinese, if they don't believe in accidents.

9 years 27 weeks ago
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icnif77:

You must realize that posting anon, 'cover/defend' you just against visitors/members of the Board.

Gov. at eChina is on to you.

Me, I feel provoked with 'let's forget nazi atrocities' posts, and I might open my own thread about my relatives on Martinus Strasse in Dusseldorf. I don't forget nor forgive, when …...

9 years 27 weeks ago
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9 years 27 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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DrMonkey:

Seriously *duuuuuuuhhh*, it's not a revelation, I think most of the regulars here know that, and you forgot to include the Taiping Rebellion and the magnificent military and civilian successes of the KMT since the 1911 revolution.

9 years 27 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

And anon forgot to add the present-day worship of Nazi Germany in China. So efficient. Ubermenschen, eradicating minorities and everything different. Yum yum! Me: "But they were Japan's allies." Red guard: "You think too much." I'm sure anonymous talked with the Chinese wife about today, asking why there isn't a Hate Mao Day as well, and then felt the need to vent.

9 years 27 weeks ago
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DrMonkey:

A fun fact is that the KMT armies pre-1939 were equipped with lots of German supplies : same helmets, same uniforms, same 'potatoe-masher' grenades, same rifles, etc. It was a good contract for Germany, but they had to stop shipping weapons since they were supposed to be Japan's ally.

9 years 27 weeks ago
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9 years 27 weeks ago
 
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I lived 3 years in Japan before coming to China, when I tell Chinese people about that they always ask me first "Do you prefer Japanese or Chinese?" to what I usually answer "I like every humans", they are so confused.

 

Sometimes when a Chinese tries to tell to how he hates Japan and everything Japanese I let him know that as a German I don't hate Americans, Russians, Jews or French. I also like to ask Japan haters if they watch Japanese AVs as they are very popular in China, this is enough to make them feel ashamed.

laowaigentleman:

I told them that those kinds of questions have no meaning. They were more than a little perplexed. Perhaps they thought I was trying to equivocate.

9 years 27 weeks ago
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icnif77:

It's very difficult to hate anybody as post 2nd WWar German generation.

I would rather hate myself, if I would be a German.

9 years 27 weeks ago
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Eorthisio:

icnif77 -> I feel no shame about it, most of the war criminals have been arrested and sentenced by Israel or some international court, some apparently fled to South America but must be dead by now.

 

The common people who were born by then, most are dead and those still alive were probably too young to be responsible for anything. The younger generations born after the war have nothing to ashamed of, they are not responsible for what happened.

 

We could very well hate Russians or Americans for the rape of countless German women, but we don't or the spiral of hate will never end.

 

Also Germany is seen as the friendliest and most welcoming country in the world nowadays according to various polls published on Forbes and other websites.

 

Past is past, if no side forgive then we will keep fighting forever, China might hate and attack Japan by now, but in the future the opposite might happen again (as a result of China attacking Japan today), and so on, forgiving and working hand in hand is better for both sides, this is a notion Chinese have a problem with.

 

Anyway the hate of Japan is being spread by the CCP so that people focus on it and no on the inner problems of China (e.g. corruption, pollution, inequalities, ...).

9 years 27 weeks ago
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9 years 27 weeks ago
 
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  Happy Hate Japan Day to you too sir. Oh I do so hate Japan. I do, I do, I do. And a partridge in a pear treeeee.

Robk:

I hate that song! *Throws rocks at the partridge in the pear tree.*

 

Why won't it fly away so we don't have to repeat that part each time?!

 

 

9 years 27 weeks ago
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9 years 27 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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I wish every country was enlightened as China. When oh when will my government dedicate a day to hating everyone of a certain nationality?

laowaigentleman:

We don't need to distract our populations.

9 years 27 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Cos we're allowed to publicly hate our government???

9 years 27 weeks ago
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9 years 27 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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Don't worry everyone. If the Chinese keep traveling and acting with their god awful manners, the entire world will have a "Happy Hate China Day!"

 

Then they can go back to saying that everyone always bullies them... oh wait, they never stopped saying that...

coineineagh:

Constructive criticism is not in the Chinese dictionary, while bullying is considered mature adult behaviour here. I guess when they witness western behaviour they can't quite place, they just assume it's bullying.

9 years 27 weeks ago
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JacobJohn:

coin, that's because they believe they are entitled to bullying everyone, while being bullied gives them the appetite to play the victims.

9 years 27 weeks ago
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9 years 27 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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Pretty sure the sirens are next week.

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9 years 27 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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Just heard the sirens here in Guilin

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9 years 27 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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Sirens started early in my city.

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9 years 27 weeks ago
 
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I don't know why the whole People's Congress doesn't just stand up and have a big collective wank. They could tone it down a little and just beat their chests like neutered chimpanzees. Both are practically the same thing as the sirens going off.

 

I noticed a lot of the migrant restauranteurs are looking especially transfixed by the CCP ham-acted propaganda shows lately. They must find a band of peasants who ran in the opposite direction to where the Japanese were so inspiring.

coineineagh:

Migrant workers have less relatives to seek comfort with, so they feel more nostalgic attachment to the media. I wonder if it's intentiona lthat so many Chinese are forced to work far from home for exactly this reason. Divide and conquer into the little details of people's daily lives. Well played, big brother!

9 years 27 weeks ago
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9 years 27 weeks ago
 
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I'm curious as to why China hates Japan so much, and is having this little fisticuff over some small islands against them - but hasn't got the guts to actually start a war....

 

Also - Q: is this "Hate Japan Day" of equal insult to the Japanese as visiting the Yasukuni Shrine is to the Chinese? (or, should it be of equal import/insult??)

coineineagh:

Japan is China's "Evil America", except closer so they can see it properly. There's a joke about the Myopia epidemic in universities in there, but I can't quite figure it out.

9 years 27 weeks ago
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Robk:

Just ask one of them.

 

They will be quick to list out the horrible events the Japanese have done...

 

- they raped us

- they gased us

- they insulted us

- they invaded us

- they murdered us

- they insult us by visiting their war shrines

- they provide us with excellent AV and auto.... wait... I didn't say that!

 

*a black BYD van pulls up, black bags the guy and takes off with the tires squealing*

9 years 27 weeks ago
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Governor

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Well to be fair my grandma and great aunts grew up in Qingdao (great grand-dad was a doctor/teacher) and they said based on the behavior of the Japs prior to the family departure in 1941, they had always assumed they were a subhuman race of monsters. Grandma said she first met a Nipponese in person in the 1980's, 40 years later, and was very much surprised to find a Japanese polite and civilized. So it's not only China who harbored a deep-seated hatred of Japan for so long. But meanwhile there is a whole row of pricey Japanese goods in the local convenience store so hard to believe they really hate Japan. Why not? Japanese culture is kinda cute.

xinyuren:

dare i ask the purpose of this thing?  I can't read Japanese.

9 years 27 weeks ago
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sam239:

Friend said it is a kind of device to help people sing certain harmonic notes that are said to help cure ailments. By singing with the device in the mouth the body vibrates and healing occurs.

 

I think it's just a front and the true purpose is to help stretch the mouth muscles to prepare to make love to octopuses.

Or (English teachers) is that octopi?

9 years 27 weeks ago
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9 years 27 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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Sure thing, but I don't hate Japan because China feels entitled to hate and make that a nationalistic prove of love for China. So keep doing that but in the mean time do please mention how many millions died at the hands of your own government, after Japanese committed these atrocities. They did so wrong, so outrageously wrong, but if that's what should be called, how should I call the killing of so many Chinese after it at the hands of the Chinese government?

if you hate the hate they killed your people, how should be hated the hate you Chinese people killed your own people for the best of the People?

Edit: So you say "Chairman X (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000". That means that there are some proves about the mass killings over the good times of the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward. Oops, I guess I got emotional!

mArtiAn:

  Yep, there must be an entire generation of people in their 70s and 80s asking themselves "What the Hell was that all about? Everyone's walking around using iPhones and listening to Lady Gaga, this place is a capitalist nightmare. Jesus, I shouldn't have shot my art teacher, he was nice." 

9 years 27 weeks ago
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Governor

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A nicely balanced point. Thanks for that, I totally agree.

I just wish more Chinese would see the 'light of day'..

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