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Q: Has anybody figured out how stupid the new visa law is for travel?
so i am at the psb office for my twice a year z work visa approval, no real trouble as my school has great guanxi there, but the new national law is they have to hold my passport for approval 15 working days, so i get this piece of paper to carry around along with a copy of my passport to buy a train ticket or use the ticket to board a train.
while im talking to the psb officer with a translator, i tell the psb officer that this is very bad for recruiting and will cause less foreigners to come to china, of course he does not have a clue why.
so i tell the translator, foreigners have 2 travel periods , spring break and summer break, both approximately 6 weeks depending on the type of school, this is also when you renew most contracts for the next term and most passports and now 3 weeks have been taken away for a return visit to family out of china, for younger teachers no trips to exotic places like manila, bangkok, or vietnam. the temporary letter says only good for travel in china. what good is a round trip ticket home at the end of a contract if you cant use the damn thing. so you spend a week getting documents together, wait 3 weeks to get your passport back and now you have 2 weeks left to travel abroad twice a year and only those 2 weeks unless your at a big school with extra teachers so you can take off in the middle of a term.
as usual, someone has not done any logical thinking, they give 6 months now in shandong instead of a year so they can make 400 rmb twice a year on the visa, how about charging 800 and giving us a year and let me have my 3 weeks of china land lock down back.
10 years 10 weeks ago in Visa & Legalities - China
I know people in Shandong that have 1 year Z visas, i thought they were gradually getting longer not shorter.... Perhaps your school doesnt have as much guangxi as you thought.
ambivalentmace:
some universities are getting a year but training schools and international schools like mine are all getting 6 months. the boss of my school has classmates that work at the psb, otherwise the psb officer would have never talked to me, but this 3 week wait on a passport is definitely going to cut down on travel time for people who want to visit their family. this is also psb for jinan , aston in jinan get 6 months but zibo gets a year, i only know one teacher in jinan with a one year visa, they work at shandong university, the provincial universities had different rules than the city of jinan. the provincial universities are taking teachers up to 70 years old and jinan is 65, rules are really confusing here.
ironman510:
My gov friend said Shandong and Sichuan are testing grounds for all these new laws. Maybe after review we'll be required to renew our RP twice a year.. Or a guess just popped up in my head, maybe the school doesn't want to give a one year RP, easier to let go if the teacher isn't needed or if he or she bums out.
Shandong province is a testing ground for new Visa laws, just like in Qingdao..That's why you have to renew every 6 months. And thats why we're hearing about the 5 year in a row working law popping up, because these laws are being tested.
As for the 15 day passport holding, yes it sucks, it's all over China, but you can only blame those crazy foreign teachers that got caught.. The passport holding is for a deeper security check..
ambivalentmace to be very honest with you, China may not really want us here.. Yes big investors are welcomed, but deep down they really don't want the rest of us here, even a members wife who went to a gov meeting heard that we weren't wanted, so don't expect too much love from China..
ambivalentmace:
so the more they get rid of us, for those that can manage stay, we just charge more, supply and demand is a wonderful thing.
Scandinavian:
@ironman. you could very well be right that China doesn't want foreigners. But this approach would mean those who are more qualified will have an easier time to seek else where and all the slackers who have less choices would think the hassle is less of an obstruction !
ironman510:
I agree with Scan, the question is will enough high qualified people want to come to China or Saudi? Saudi tax free salary of $4000.
TMaster:
I don't think passports are retained for any reason at all. The security check thing is not credible, no check needs two weeks, and it's hardly any extra work with the right technology.
Most RP are printed the week following deposit, and many of then within 48 hours.
And I don't think cases of fake passports that would require such measures are that many either. I mean, what relation does it have with illegal work anyway? None. This is just another way to express unwelcomly attitude, and nothing else.
What you say about big investors is true, except that now you would expect big investors with half a brain never to consider China for investment, and those already engaged in operations actively looking for a way out.
ironman510:
Yeah Tmaster has a point, Adidas pulled out of Shanghai last year.. we'll see who's next...
TMaster:
Tesco, rumors of Carrefour, that pharmaceutical that got framed last year, tech giants like Apple... Other industrials are slowly realizing their Chinese operations are a waste of time and money now after many years of continuous management and accounting problems.
How many small and middle size companies I don't know.
Indeed it's a little late now they're setting local owned factories full of stolen tech all over the place, but I don't think they'll go very far now the feed is slowing. A few more years to realize the students that came back from abroad in whom they placed so many hopes aren't as performant as expected.
Zhenglaien:
Can the PSB do an international background check on foreigners for Resident Permit renewal? If they can do that, what is the point of having to go through the trouble of getting the CBC ourselves?
So what is this "deeper security check"?
ironman510:
The deeper security check so to speak is a check of our history maybe in China, but my guess they need 3 weeks to check us because there's a long line of passports to check and they might need 2 days or 3 weeks to check, so they hold on to it for 3 weeks just to ensure they have enough time to check everything.
TMaster:
Whenever you have to wait in line somewhere, never assume it's because the place is too crowded. It's rather because someone doesn't give a damn about making life a little bit easier for a lot of people. You rarely wait to buy something, but you sure do when your something is broken and you need it fixed.
I think many of you are missing the point. China's govt wants all foreign businesses and people out. Yes, it is shooting yourself in the foot economically. But having foreigners in China is making Chinese businesses and the Chinese way of doing things look bad. And because people are learning new ways of thinking and doing things, that will endanger the stability of the ruling party. Every year there are more strikes, protests and people voicing disagreements with the govt.
Englteachted:
Also, China's govt does not want qualified teachers working legally. They are trying to make it impossible for schools to hire teachers legally. They want to force schools to hire teachers illegally. So every now and then they can round up the illegal workers and publish the story for propaganda. Also unqualified illegal teachers are more likely to be bad apples. So when they try to sleep with their students or show up hung over, it will fuel the anti-foreigner campaign.
ironman510:
Wanderingteacher said her boss told her that China will require certified teachers in the future. Tesol or TEFL and BA degree or even a masters degree will be worthless..
Englteachted:
Ironman: they will for this purpose, to force teachers to decide not to teach in China. Certified teachers will not accept low salaries to teach in China. Saudi pays equal to the salaries in the states.
In other countries that require certification, are great places to live (Latin America, Caribbean)
Also this will mean schools will have to hire foreigners illegally, which gives them more power over foreigners.
ironman510:
I guess I really need to get my wife a greencard...Looks like a good handful of us won't be able to remain in China.. I have no wish to raise a family on a Q Visa...
Does anyone know any Chinese teachers who have a visa to work in western countries?
A few years ago, my GF, now wife, got a UK tourist visa to come visit me for 6 months. This was her first tourist visa, but she had been to the UK many times on a business visa.
She was pulled aside at Heathrow, and taken to an interrogation room. She was in tears by the time she was allowed out. I will never put her through that again.
That's why I am here now.
If you think it's tough for us, try being a Chinese trying to get into your home country.
Ask your parent's what they think of immigration, or your school friends or ex workmates. I bet they are all anti, or at least a good proportion are.
You might think Chinese rules are shit, but I bet they are actually a lot more easier than your home countries rules. 
Englteachted:
I'm sorry, but your story is not believable. First you do not state why they questioned her. Secondly, you say she was brought to tears as if that means they did something horrible to her. I have seen people brought to tears because fruit was confiscated from them at the airport.
mike695ca:
yeah, i get what your trying to say but it just doesnt seem to be right. Im from Vancouver where 25 to 30 percent of the population is immigrants mostly from China. Many dont work or pay taxes yet take money from the government. Millions of chinese get to Canada and dont have to jump through the hoops that we do. They have a much easier time of it. I cant get mad at the chinese, its my own stupid governments fault but i dont like how we get treated here by comparison. If they want me out, then kick out the millions of chinese from Canada and ill be happy to leave, untill then, i feel like i have every right to stay no matter the visa.
WCG:
I'm perfectly ok with my gov't making it hard for Chinese. They are more of a hazard than I am. I think we actually do China a lot of good. I couldn't imagine where China would be if it didn't open its doors. It's a love/hate relationship, but I would argue that on balance China needs the world, if not to at least promote creativity and innovation. yinyang, right? They have a severe emigration imbalance.
It has always been easy for me to get a visa and enter China.At the immigration checkpoints they always are polite, but thorough. Now, the return to my country, the
USA has not always been smooth or easy.
Last time my [Chinese] wife and I got interrogated by the immigration authorities. The mainly focused on me, asking me questions such as: 'Why do you go to China and teach there? - Why did you stay so long? - Are you planning to live here in the US again or will you just live in China; perhaps you don't like it here?' --
Then they tore apart our suitcases, inspecting every item... two times!
I hate coming back here... and the leaving is also a hassle with the TSA! They treat
people like we all are criminals/terrorists. Sort of reminds me of a certain country in Europe... around 1940.
I am really 'frosted'!!!
Englteachted:
Again your story sounds like complete and total BS. As an American, I know for sure your story is BS. The US govt bends over backwards when it comes to immigrants. Illegal immigrants can't be deported. A few years ago the govenor of AZ tired to change that (allow police deport and arrest illegals) and there was a big uproar and that law had to be suspended. Any real american knows that story is BS. America (the govt) allows immigrants to establish gangs and other organized crime to victimize citizens so please cut the Bull.
Englteachted:
This is a public forum. I am free to post my opinion. In my opinion, you are lying. USA (govt) does not harass people over immigration and traveling to other countries. Americans travel freely all over the world, border agents don't harass people about traveling. Many people in my family have traveled and lived in various countries including Cuba, they have had no problems even when trying to bring back banned items (the items were just confiscated).
Instead of sending me PMs post your garbage here for all to see.
Englteachted:
"Then they tore apart our suitcases, inspecting every item... two times!"
That is complete BS. They as matter of policy never break or tear apart anything unless the x-rays shows something in the linings. And really they tore it apart, repaired it, then tore it apart again?
Never heard of this... My Uni renews my residence permit once a year, it takes 3-4 days... Anyway, if you are native speaker why would you work in a training center???
ironman510:
I've worked in Wallstreet for 5 years, why? Great students, no BS, cool technology to use for teaching and with some OT can make over Y25,000 a month.. I hope that answers your question.
mike695ca:
i second that. people who work in training centers make more money, dont want 5 months off a year, seem more responsable and more " normal". You get wierdos everywhere and amazing teachers in unis too, everyones got their reasons and choices.
Nah it doesn't. 
manasyt:
Uni professor? Haha Ironman... what do you want to know? Question was about visas.... Not how much money you make... You got a bed in your classroom or is it 1000 an hour? Sorry, I'm sure Ironman can handle anything 
ironman510:
Nice try, I didn't say anything about visa's, I answered your question: "Why would a native speaker work in a training center." Now I asked you why after you said it didn't answer your question.. And you replied with this BS answer, so come on Uni Professor, answer me, why?
Answer you what....If your school has to renew every 6 months that is already major BS. All I meant is that public schools in China are less hassle in most cases. What else do you want to know? No, I don't drive an SUV. 
ironman510:
No further questions Uni Professor.. I'm so proud of you man. This reply gives us a better idea of what's on your mind with relation to this original topic, well not the SUV part, but much more clearer then your first post.. I agree renewing every 6 months would be BS..Every passing year the visa rules make a lot of working professionals feel unwelcomed..
manasyt:
Hehe you started it...'Uni Professor'? Thank you but it's only a BA (in English, out of all things). Didn't mean any harm, Ironman. 
well, my stepfather whom i hated and hope is in the bottom pits of hell, always told me if you going to be a whore, be a well paid whore, so if your not the boss or owner, go for the money, so i work for an international program that shakes down rich chinese who want to send their high school crumb crunchers overseas for high school and pass the ielts. if universities start paying whores better, then i will go back to teaching at universities.
the comments about better pay and certified teachers is credible but older teachers, certified or not, are not welcomed in many countries, so old farts like myself are somewhat limited.
i dont travel much anymore, seen everything, but for young folks wanting to see the world and china's illusions of grandeur, it seems the policy will keep foreigners away.
two years ago i laughed when my university employer at that time and the psb agent said china could easily get foreigners with a master's degree in english to teach in china for 5000 rmb. my reply was a curt smile and said good luck with that fantasy.
manasyt:
Well, many do it...I don't know if I'm young or old (I'll be 38 this year) and my Uni does pay me 6000, which I save because I can work PT and still have at least 2 days off a week. The Uni pay is for 2(!) days a week, done at 4PM, with a 2 hour lunch break.
There are about 25 English teachers at my Uni, sometimes people with PHDs. I'm a non-native with a BA, we all get paid the same. We have about half a year off (if you put together all holidays), no visa worries, bonuses for every holiday, no dealing with parents whatsoever. No criminal background and health checks and a nice apartment with bills paid in a gated community 10 minutes from work (where my wife is allowed to live and any relatives or friends can visit, BS free). I go home for a month every year (plane ticket paid). My students vary depending on their major but they are in their 20s, so there's no dancing monkey children crap in my class. They are interested and they learn a lot. Due to their feedback and the school's observation I can keep this job as long as I want. There's no way I will teach 40-50 hours a week, that's mental torture. So I choose a relaxed lifestyle instead of money or what my father tells me.
mike695ca:
@ man, you chose the easy road. Sais alot about you, you dont want the mental torture = im too lazy to work and buy a house or have real goals, ill just coast till im 60 and hopefully im not too much of a burden on my kids. your choice, but how in your right mind can you judge others who work longer hours and deal with way more bullshit for faaaaar more money? thats life in every place, the harder you work the more you get.
manasyt:
I don't have kids, mate. First goal was a car, have that now, fully paid. Uni+PT can get pretty much the same money as a FT Training center and still have more free time (have no idea where Ironman works haha). So I don't know how you get your conclusions about what kind of person I am. You get to go back to the UK, so don't tell me a person from Eastern Europe would ever have it easier than you because you have no idea. 
mike695ca:
fair enough, but im from canada, andmy bestfriend is working here, hes polish so perhaps i have a bit of an idea. maybe we should all keep our judgments to a minimum haha
manasyt:
Not UK? So why go there? 'No idea' meaning being one of them haha...as having choices or freedom in life 
. Lifestyle also depends on how much one spends...which varies greatly among expats, I believe.
