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Q: Have you been asked by a friend to do something you would consider unethical?
Since my return home, i have kept in contact with some of my former colleagues off and on - usually in the form of me posting them messages like wishing them a 'Happy New Year' , enquiring after families and the like - the usual things you do with friends.
Not surprisingly, I don't responses from most of them, this kind of 'small talk' not being the norm apparently.
I got an urgent request to chat from a colleague during the week and she didn't elaborate, but was unable to respond with more than an acknowledgement and arrangement to chat at the weekend.
Then there was this 'conversation' - no preliminaries, just straight jump in - she wanted me to 'help' with an application.
Friend: I know there must be some problems in my translation, if the sentences are not readable, please revise this for me
ME: a bit more background about the student would be helpful
Friend: I can explain the meaning.
ME: i am concerned that the student is not fully prepared for traveling abroad
Friend: the student is educated at home on Chinese traditional culture
ME: Many Chinese students don't adapt very well to studying abroad
Friend: she is very hard working, not only on study, but also on housework.
ME ability to socialise is of equal importance
Friend: there will be no problem for her to live anywhere. the only problem now is the language --ENglish
ME: a student who tries to work in isolation will find life much more challenging. has the student traveled abroad before?
how is she on interacting socially?
Friend: no, she is not educated alone at home. the home school has nearly 20 girls at her age,
ME: has she traveled abroad?
Friend: it's a little difficult to explain this kind of educational system
ME: has she done any independent travel/study I would be concerned she does not have the social experience of a university this can cause a lot of stress with student and cause their studies to fail. I don't mean to be discouraging, but i have seen SO many Chinese students fail because they are unrealistic about life abroad and getting assistance on any application would be considered cheating, in some cases fraud, which is a criminal offense.
Friend: the girl and her mates are totally different from the students we met in (city). don't worry about their ability to live abroad
ME: my concern is that if she is given assistance on applications, but her English fails to meet this standard when she is in university, it would be a waste of time and money, especially as the fees for Chinese students are so high
Friend: o, I got your meaning. Their application is quite early before they really go to the UK, they will be given a year of pre-school in China in the applying period and the pre school, they are learning English very hard
ME: yes, i am sure that is the case, but i am aware of the standard of english teaching in China
Friend: since they are home schooled on Chinese traditional culture from their early age, they seldon learn English, that's the reason why they are very poor in ENglish when they are applying the Academy of XXXX
ME: i hope she is aware that unlike in China, in a foreign universities the students are responsible for doing the assigned work, and no teacher will be running after them. there is no such things as 'assignement extensions', re-doing exams etc.
Friend: they will use about 2 years to learn English and pass IELTS. some of them did it last year(pass the IELTS)
ME have they kept up their practice of english In (CITY)? it was the rare student who kept working at their english once they got the score they wanted in IELTS most students did not understand the necessity of working on English every day
Friend: They invited a professor from the local university to teach them English and an IELTS training teacher from (city) to train them practise English
ME: and any foreign teachers? it is essential that they have foreign teachers if they want to succeed abroad, as they will be expected to have excellent listening to all types of accents. what is the level of their academic English? i'm sorry, but i am just being realistic here
Friend: thanks for your advice. I will suggest them getting practised with foreign teachers, like through online lessons
ME: real conversation english is required. how else will they learn to communicate outside a Chinese circle? unless they are comfortable in an environment where THEY will be the foriegner, this adds more stress
Friend: their majors are around (specialised topic).
ME: but they will have to live and work as foreigners. They will have to interact on a daily basis as foreigners. staying in a groups is a recipe for failure and their major is irrelevent
Friend: yes, I mean the level of their academic English they need is not very high
ME yet they will still need to interact with others who are not Chinese and academic English will still be required if they are writing in English. As i said, i don't mean to be discouraging, it is just that many Chinese students had unrealsitic expectations about studying abroad
Friend: I have the confidence for them to grasp a foreign language since they have an excellent base of mother language. trust me, Blondie. don't worry about their ability of learning and living and communication
ME: i am sure, but 'assitance' on an applicaiton may be considered cheating, that is why i am ambivilant about helping, because in the long- run, it might turn out not to be 'help' at all. if the student fails to live up to the application, there would be many questions. I am just being realistic here, and i know is sounds harsh.
Friend: I understand. there is cultural shock. for us CHinese, if I think she is hard working and she needs help at this stage to hand in some files, I don't think it's cheating. because she will finally pass IELTS before she can go abroad
ME: the problem is that the application is supposed to be from the student alone, and a reflection of the student's ability. ok, I'll take a look at what she has written anyway.
but i am not guaranteeing anything
Friend: but they hope the girls and boys can go to their Academy since they are very good at Chinese Traditional Culture
ME: i don't mean to be unhelpful, but i was pressured (and theatened) enough durning my time in (City) to change students grades. and i know, even though i did not bow to the threats, that i would be doing a student no favours if I 'assisted' a student. send the application to me and i'll take a look but no guarantees
File received.
ME:
what are the quesitons that are being answered? on first glance, it is Chinese translated into English not fluid english
an over-use of 'articles' in sentences (the / a /an)
Friend: haven't got the questions. I only got their Chinese answers and a draft of translation of the answers
ME: who will be reading this application?
an English or Chinese staff member?
there is no individuality in these answers
Friend: o
ME: it is as if the writer thinks these are the correct answers to write, not what she really thinks.
without knowing what was asked, i can not offer more of an opinion on what is written
Friend: so, could you just revise the expression? the language?
ME: No. my English would in no way reflect the English of the student and would be cheating. i would write as a native speaker and someone would spot that immediately.
Upshot was my friend would not understand that i would NOT rewrite the application as this is a dishonest reflection of the student's ability and CHEATING
sorry for long 'question' but what would you do?
6 years 4 days ago in Teaching & Learning - China
My wife calls it 'cloud mouth'. Considering possible negative consequences in the future, is essentially bad luck. People expect you to go about things with optimism, and keep preparation and planning to a minimum.
I hate it. But I learned to objectify the situation, and not assume responsibilities that the people themselves don't want to consider. If they are paying well, I'd give them what they want. Of course, disclaimers would be voiced by me, but I'd expect them to be ignored. And if they don't care, why should I?
I once met with Chinese friends of my wife in the Netherlands. They aren't teaching their kids any Chinese. They told me my kids are behind in Dutch learning, and we should abandon Chinese altogether. I disagreed, and warned them that mainland Chinese are not forgiving of any ethnic Chinese who doesn't speak the language. It is way worse for their kids' future prospects than being a bit slow at assimilating Dutch. Suffice to say I turned a friend into an enemy.
Discussing the clash with my wife, my wife told me: "why should we care about what happens with their children? Let them hit the lamppost by themselves." I found it brutally harsh, but the truth is, they like my wife for not challenging their parenting decisions. They hate me for being involved and giving a toss. So, when talking to sensitive egos, I need to remember to stop caring.
Just follow the group, do what others want you to, and don't bother anyone else with difficult thoughts. Your ability to foresee problems and plan ahead are best kept to yourself. You are the only person whose ego isn't challenged by your functioning brain.
Yeah... I used to do PT classes with a training center that would send kids to Model UN conferences. They tried to “insist” that I write the students’ Position papers.
I told them them where they could put those papers...
If there is enough money involved,..... nothing is unethical to me.
Blondie_:
there would be no money involved - i am expected to do this 'because of friendship'.
I'm sorry but being a friend still does not mean i will help someone cheat, and the 'everyone else is doing it' excuse does not cut it with me.
biggj123:
Oh... you brought your morals and ethics with you to china? How cute.
@Jean.P - is my long 'copy/paste' question ok, or should i have provided a link to the online conversation? 
https://answers.echinacities.com/question/how-much-copy-and-paste-too-much?type=alatest#answer000
The scenario you described, including the specific language in your dialogue, is common for Chinese-foreigner relationships. The Chinese sense of rules and ethics are different than yours. Obviously so.
Don't compromise your ethics. If you feel some sense of obligation to help your friend help the student, then limit your advice to commenting on general things like subject matter or ideas expressed, structuring paragraphs, and changing some simple and repetitive grammatical errors. Definitely do not do any re-writing. That would be crossing the line.
You can think of this as helping your daughter or nephew or best friend's son by looking over the application for generalized guidance. There's nothing wrong with offering a student helpful advice.
You don't have to fully explain your ethics to your friend, and convince her to accept your beliefs. That debate isn't necessary. Limit your involvement without justifying your restrictions.
Blondie_:
i was well used to such 'friendships' while in China, and had to put up with a LOT of crap.
It just makes me sad when this individual who is trying this on was one of the few positive working relationships i had.
It makes be laugh that even saying 'no' is ignored.
for me 'no' means 'no', none of this 'being polite' BS
Bugger me Jeezus.....Blondie you were here long enough to know that the only Chinese friend a foreigner can have is at the moment they want something from you at no charge. And they will be unlikely to even respond to any contact until they want something again.
Ask for $5000 and a dozen nude selfies or tell them to fuck off.
Blondie_:
ha ha, you are right Mr. Wolf - I was not surprised at the way the conversation went
it is just that I am surprised this sort of BS followed me home.
some of my former students do keep in touch in a more conversational, non-demanding way, you know like normal friends do. they let me know how they are getting on and I have time for them.
Seems to be the way these days...plenty of western companies do similar things to keep the cash rolling through.
And we wonder why people can't do their jobs well.
Please stick to your sence of right and wrong so we don't end up with more dumb arseholes in jobs telling us what to do.
My wife calls it 'cloud mouth'. Considering possible negative consequences in the future, is essentially bad luck. People expect you to go about things with optimism, and keep preparation and planning to a minimum.
I hate it. But I learned to objectify the situation, and not assume responsibilities that the people themselves don't want to consider. If they are paying well, I'd give them what they want. Of course, disclaimers would be voiced by me, but I'd expect them to be ignored. And if they don't care, why should I?
I once met with Chinese friends of my wife in the Netherlands. They aren't teaching their kids any Chinese. They told me my kids are behind in Dutch learning, and we should abandon Chinese altogether. I disagreed, and warned them that mainland Chinese are not forgiving of any ethnic Chinese who doesn't speak the language. It is way worse for their kids' future prospects than being a bit slow at assimilating Dutch. Suffice to say I turned a friend into an enemy.
Discussing the clash with my wife, my wife told me: "why should we care about what happens with their children? Let them hit the lamppost by themselves." I found it brutally harsh, but the truth is, they like my wife for not challenging their parenting decisions. They hate me for being involved and giving a toss. So, when talking to sensitive egos, I need to remember to stop caring.
Just follow the group, do what others want you to, and don't bother anyone else with difficult thoughts. Your ability to foresee problems and plan ahead are best kept to yourself. You are the only person whose ego isn't challenged by your functioning brain.
Yes. I've been asked to 'fix' essays before.
Usually I'd have no idea what point the writer was trying to make, it was just a word salad of cut and paste nonsense with no structure or coherent argument being made.
I'd just explain that I can fix the grammar and spelling etc but I can't fix the content because I don't know anything about the subject of the essay and I'm not going to rewrite it. Usually they're ok with that so I do my 'favour' and don't worry about the ethics because the essay is still incoherent nonsense, just with slightly better grammar and spelling.
Blondie_:
the document i was presented with is the same, the problem is that because i can't make head or tail of the content (everything is a string of cliches with no coherent point or meaning), i would not know where to start 
thanks for the responses guys.
I had considered all these things, especially when i was on the spot in China, and i am not changing now. I'll be formulating a decent response to my friend as to why i am not going to help ( i know i will be bombarded with mssgs until i do), and i'll let you know how it went down.
China is a feminine society dominated by filial piety. Women have limited fertile years and invest all the physical resources in making a baby. Women don't have time to solve problems in society, they just have time to secure enough safety and stability for themselves.
The Mainland government supports the promotion of feminine values of safety and stability, because the Red Guard thugs in power have that to offer, but look awful when held to any standards of ethics or fairness.
You come from a masculine society that expects people to uphold fairness and justice, so you think you'll be doing nothing wrong with a refusal to compromise your values and principles.
What it will be interpreted as by the Chinese, is a foreigner imposing his values on Chinese. Values that conflict with filial piety and the will of the government. Believe it or not, it can be equated to sedition.
Think of this scenario: A Chinese coming to the West to make money for their family, avoid taxes and flout rules, out of pure greed and selfishness. In China, they'd be praised for being hardworking and focused on filial piety.
YOU are the equal-and-opposite equivalent of that Chinese, and will be regarded as negatively as we regard them for having different values. I just hope you realize you will at best lose a friend over your value preaching, and at worst be reported to the government, and receive increased scrutiny for being a seditious element trying to corrupt Chinese values. Choose your words carefully.
@coineineacg,
great response, and insights.
this is the mssg i sent last night. -now awaiting a response.
"The suggestions that I have given so far regarding content of the answers are only that – SUGGESTIONS. I am not putting any pressure or obligation on the student to follow what I have said about the answers. IF she chooses to make any changes based on my answers, that is her responsibility, not mine. Again, if the student choses to ignore anything I have said, that is her responsibility not mine. I think it would be improper for me to make any more comments and I did not intend to give any false hope that I would ‘help’ more than I already did.
In my current job part of my work involves having to anticipate and evaluate all possible risks and problems. This means I have to think of ALL the possible problems that might or might not occur and their possible impact on the work I am doing. And then I have to decide how the risks might be dealt with, IF they occur, or how to avoid them altogether.
To consider possible negative outcomes of an action is NOT inviting bad luck, it is considered a wise move.
I am afraid that I can not help any more than what I have already, because what you are asking me to do is, for me, culturally unethical. I would say the same to ANY friend who asked me to do something similar. I can not be any part of what in my eyes is dishonest and cheating. I am sorry if you see this as a problem, because I value your friendship, but you have asked me to do something I can not do.
I did not promise or guarantee to help any more than the comments I have already given you, so I am not breaking my word to you.
I am not in any way seeking to impose my values on you or the student. I am just stating the system I come from and have grown up in, and the system she seeks to be a part of as a guest, and for these reasons I can not help. If this puts me in a negative light in your eyes or generates within you a negative view of me, there is nothing I can do about that.
I wish the student good luck and a hope that she achieves her goal. Again, I am sorry if you have a problem with my response, but this is clearly a huge cultural difference between us."
coineineagh:
I'm glad it was of use to you. My advice: Heed the Chinese expression "give a ladder to the opponent, so he may exit the stage gracefully." - the moral high ground is a coveted position even in China. You made your position too clear, and left the implication of Badness hanging in the air. It reads like a subtle claim of sophistication and superiority, which made me cringe when I read it. Of course you and I both believe our culture is better, but we're not supposed to say it, or even show it. Always be a chessboard move ahead of the emotional interaction. I'd have used a lame excuse like family obligations to excuse me, or just saying nothing at all would've been better than your reply. Perhaps just overact and be overly paranoid about authorities catching you if you help with cheating - then your position can be dismissed as an irrational fear response rather than an ethical value statement. Not even the most wealthy, powerful and influential people can claim to be entitled to the moral high ground. Everyone wants it. If you inadvertently put yourself above another due to ethical objections, you just claimed Goodness at their expense. OK, it's clear I over-analyse situations. I'm just trying to say, you should learn to "leave a ladder on stage", before you get yourself in trouble.
This kind of things used to happen to me when I worked in the university in the UK, some students wanted to 'be friends' with me so that they can make me do their homework. We aren't friends anymore of course, and we probably never were. Looking back though, it was not easy for me to say no, but then i told myself, if someone throws a hot potato toward you, you don't have to catch it, you can throw it back, it's their pain, not yours.
Wow you're really putting a lot more thought into this than I think is necessary. You don't need to explain your position. Just fix it how you like and say it's ready, and then let them sink or swim on their own ability.
