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Posts: 250

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Q: Have you ever failed a student? What was the blow-back?

I failed my first student this week an boy has the proverbial shit hit the fan. Did you guys ever have to deal with this and how did you handle it.  The kid I failed is both dumb and lazy with parents who spend zero time trying to help him improve. The kid is addicted to video games and throws tantrums when I take his play station away until the end of the class. The parents are filthy rich and invited me out to dinner tomorrow night, but I made other plans with my free time.

12 years 16 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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Posts: 1876

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Fail a student, fail a student. Make it clear to admin that you don't care if they change the mark, but you won't be doing it.

Path of least resistance.

His family situation, his parent's attitude, etc., are none of your concern. That's the admin's job...that's why they drive the Beamer and not you.

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12 years 16 weeks ago
 
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i failed 3 students last semester.

i clearly outlined the class rules which included attendance.

they broke the rules, got a chance and broke them again.

no come-back from admin: if admin chose to change their grade, it had nothing to do with me.

This semester there will be 1 definite failure due to lack of attendance. The student got a warning and has missed the required numbers of days attending.

She won't be sitting my end-of-semester exam. Simple as that.

 

you should have agreed to meet the parents and told them why their child was failing your class.

I would have.

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12 years 16 weeks ago
 
Posts: 250

Governor

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I told the parents I would meet them at the school during working hours. I want to avoid the hong bao thing at a restaurant. And yes, of course I will tell them why junior failed.

12 years 16 weeks ago
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Tarzan:

You did the right thing dude.

12 years 14 weeks ago
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12 years 16 weeks ago
 
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Yes - so what? Di they hire qualified teacher... or a  singing dancing monkey?

 

If the latter, then take whatever hongbaos you can... if the former, stick to your guns!

 

(I think it also depends on the school and the age... older students at real universities matter more than younger kids that are just being dragged along...).

 

Sinobear suggests that the admin should be getting the hongbaos to change marks... why?? Why should we miss out? Especially since it's the same end result...

Sinobear:

Well, I'm terribly old-fashioned and honor is a big part of why I've never accepted the lucre, as I sense Almost has similar ethics as well..

I don't care if others do that, but it's just not my style.

12 years 16 weeks ago
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12 years 16 weeks ago
 
Posts: 112

Governor

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Try to see it from the other side. The parents probably know that their kid is lazy and doesn't want to study but they're paying to have you help him irregardless of you "passing" him. That's not what you're here for especially if you work at a university. The school is not paying you to give grades they are paying for teachers to say to everyone hey look at how many foreign teachers we have. Do your best and try to teach as best as you can to those that want to learn but dont take yourself too seriously. Should you fail a student? I ask why bother? It's not worth the hassle.

mike168229:

'Irregardless'?

12 years 16 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

Then you are a clown, not a teacher. 

12 years 16 weeks ago
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hunny797:

i guess you are not an ENGLISH teacher.....

or maybe you are

12 years 16 weeks ago
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RobertZimmerman:

Doing the best that I can with the students that I have hardly puts me in the category of "clown teacher". Having worked at a university and given grades to students then being advised by my Chinese helper about how my grades should be higher my idea of grades and our role at school changed. Don't get me wrong if you are able to work for a university that is stricter than mine then more power to you.

12 years 16 weeks ago
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12 years 16 weeks ago
 
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I have never been offered a hong bao no

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12 years 16 weeks ago
 
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At worse, non renewal of contract.

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12 years 16 weeks ago
 
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I once failed about 30 students, in a class of 40. Not that I'm proud of it, they just left me no choice. Those students went to the first lecture and the last one, missing all the other lectures. I put my teaching materials available for download, maybe they felt that would be enough ? Anyway, the exam was an open exam, all documents allowed, 2 hours for what would take 1 hour. It was a set of exercises, a mere variation on exercises we rehearsed several time during the class. But of course, if you missed all the classes, you were knee deep in the shit... I was paid to teach, no to clown around : you fail, you fail.

 

The failed students went apeshit, calling me a stupid foreigner and a terrible teacher. Their grades were, according to them, *my* failure, and had nothing to do with them skipping all the lectures. The dean called me in his office, put his funeral face, and told me that I made the students loose face. I kept track of who came to my class regularly, showed the dean. He asked me to write, I shit you not, an apology letter to the students. I take no bullshit from anyone. My letter explained to the students that they missed almost all the classes, how they would except to pass any topic without studying ? And then I mentioned other attitude problems, like blaming me for being foreigner and using this an excuse. I even quoted Kong Zi and Mao...

 

After that, I got a permanent increase of 2000 RMB month, moving from 5000 RMB to 7000 RMB. I was no asked to change anything in my teaching style. I kept grading honestly. Students groaned, whatever, they took it and went on with that.

RobertZimmerman:

Sounds like it worked. Wonder if the dean will ever do that again.

12 years 16 weeks ago
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12 years 16 weeks ago
 
Posts: 197

Shifu

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I usually fail at least 1 or 2 students every semester. These are the kind of students that miss half (or more) of the lectures, don't bother to do their homework and still expect to get a passing grade at the end of the semester. I stick to honest grading however and don't care what happens as a result. Worst case scenario I have to find a new school smiley

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12 years 16 weeks ago
 
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I had a real pain in the ass class this last year. They were not English majors but trade students and a lot of them did not want to be in the class or learn anything. There were three or four good students, the rest were like The Sweathogs. I was also hampered by a textbook that was way too difficult for them and just a pain to use, so I simply did my own lectures. Fortunately, their study was hotels and hospitality and I did work like this before I came to China.

 

One of my students (Student number one on my roll sheet) literally missed almost every class. I had them for 14 weeks, twice a week, so 28 sessions, and he came in maybe three times out of the 28. Even had the nerve to try to sit for my oral exam, and I basically told him to get lost.

 

I learned from past experience that I cannot "fail"  a student. If the students "fails" they get the option to do a retake of the exam. I get around this by giving the student a "60%", which is the lowest passing grade. When I turned my stuff in, I told my class assistant that this kid failed, and 60 means fail, and they can do with the information as they like.

Sinobear:

The Sweathogs? My gawd, you're showing your age! Welcome Back Kotter and we'll be hearing you on WKRP in Cincinnati.

12 years 16 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

have the whole tv series wkrp on my computer from torrents, great show after all these years, i once had a class of 33 students for business english and the three that showed up for class all received a 92 mark and the other 30 got a sixty score, the unversities have lots of debt and need the body count, has nothing to do with education.

12 years 15 weeks ago
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12 years 16 weeks ago
 
Posts: 117

Governor

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I failed 3 of 10 students at Goldentran and management had a tizzy fit and demanded that I changed the grades.  I refused since the three kids truly did not learn enough to pass and made no effort at all to kep up with the rest of the class. Truly, they were just lazy and disinterested and one of the three actually dozed off every day for about 30 minutes during class and once fell out of his chair.  Long story short.  I was told to change the grades or look for another job , and I chose the latter. Things worked out for the best.  Goldentran was only interested in selling the parents another 3 month module - period.

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12 years 14 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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A story from the other side, I was once almost failed by a Chinese teacher!

 

During my studies in China, Chinese language class was part of the mandatory curriculum which is really nice, if not for the fact that the Chinese taught is the most basic stuff, and it is the only Chinese classes offered. So out of a class of 25 students we were 8 students who were intermediate or better in Chinese. On the first day of class we asked if we could skip the classes and just attend the exam, the teacher said "ok".

 

Fast forward, we all attended the last class before the exam and the teacher was PISSED at those of us who "skipped" class, she told us to get the hell out of her classroom and that she will fail all 8 of us. After some frantic discussion and negotiation with the office, the teacher and the affected students she agreed to let us take the exam. And yeah all of 8 of us got B or better on the exam.

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12 years 14 weeks ago
 
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I'm doing an end of semester speaking test right now with all my grade 7s and 8s.

They are required to speak for between 30 seconds and 2 minutes on a topic of their own choice.  Any topic.  Many asked me to choose a topic for them but I declined, explaining that this is an opportunity for them to decide something for themselves.

So today I had about 8 or 10 students who refused to even participate when their turn came around.  

I gave them a mark of zero and that will be reflected in the letter I have written for all the parents.

I'm certain that no one will give a stuff about this as my exams don't count for shit.

 

 

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12 years 14 weeks ago
 
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