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Q: Have you ever seen Chinese approach foreigners talking negatively about them?
I don't like to spit too much vile and venom in public places about Chinese people. I think it is quite rude even if Chinese people are rude themselves (doesn't mean you have to stoop to their level). Yes, I do complain and discuss some strange points about Chinese but when a foreign guy starts over-doing it... I tell them to chill or just walk off.
I notice that some Chinese can sense they are being put down (or possibly they understand the English)... pretty much like we would even if we don't totally understand. Usually, the just try to ignore the foreigners chatting or send over angry glances. Have you or anyone you know every been approached and told to shut up about Chinese? Have you every seen any Chinese try and start a fight with the foreigner talking them down?
I am just wondering because I have never seen it. This could be a testament to cowardice or that most Chinese don't have a clue what foreigners are complaining about in bars and clubs (or they don't care).
If I complain about China to other expats in public, I'm pretty sure the language is too complex to be clearly insulting. Most of the keywords are not so simple to recognize.
If a Chinese talks about foreigners insultingly, I'll hear waiguoren/laowai at least 5 times, used in clearly judgemental sentences. There will also be lots of staring involved, perhaps with raised voices. There might be laughter and/or dirty looks.
When I criticise locals, my body language will not single them out or betray my topic. If I raise my voice, it will be towards my discussion partner, intended to place emphasis on my comments, not to get attention from bystanders (so, limited loudness). I won't be saying the word 'Chinese' often, preferring a mix of words like 'Mainlanders', 'locals', 'people here', 'they' (English prefers pronouns over redundant repetition).
Even if a nosy person were perceptive enough to catch on that I'm talking about Chinese people, they'd still need to hear a number of other keywords to guess whether my comments were unflattering or otherwise. A few examples of keywords that locals are unlikely to hear, and even less likely to take offense at: pollution, education, indoctrination, shallowness, attitudes, politeness, hygiene, reasoning, dismal, shortsighted, etc.
Most of all, I believe I display far less body language than Chinese do, and feel no need to look at the people when I'm talking about them.
A while ago, my wife wanted to tell me something about a man in a tea house. She said: "You see that man over there?"
I took note of the direction she pointed at, I was aware of the man in the corner of my eye, and without turning to look, I asked: "Yes, what about him?"
My wife was stunned that I didn't look at the man when she directed me to look. Three times she signaled to me to look at the man, and I eventually said I don't want to be seen looking at him directly after she pointed at him.
She took offense at this, and never told me what was special about the man. Perhaps Chinese insist on direct observation when discussing a topic, or perhaps it was a relative who would gain face if I turned my head to look at him. Whatever the reason, I believe Westerners can be more indirect and subtle in communication, perhaps to maintain privacy and respect.
Because my body language is reserved for discussion parners and not onlookers, I believe I have offended fewer people when discussing them.
No, and those bars you are talking about are typically the kind of places where you can find such people.
http://41.media.tumblr.com/c84a6a4d068f05ab26c71a8d91939e62/tumblr_neygi...
http://thechinachronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2013/11/115_DCE.jpg
Eorthisio:
No, they are part of a comic strip series called laowai comics.
If I complain about China to other expats in public, I'm pretty sure the language is too complex to be clearly insulting. Most of the keywords are not so simple to recognize.
If a Chinese talks about foreigners insultingly, I'll hear waiguoren/laowai at least 5 times, used in clearly judgemental sentences. There will also be lots of staring involved, perhaps with raised voices. There might be laughter and/or dirty looks.
When I criticise locals, my body language will not single them out or betray my topic. If I raise my voice, it will be towards my discussion partner, intended to place emphasis on my comments, not to get attention from bystanders (so, limited loudness). I won't be saying the word 'Chinese' often, preferring a mix of words like 'Mainlanders', 'locals', 'people here', 'they' (English prefers pronouns over redundant repetition).
Even if a nosy person were perceptive enough to catch on that I'm talking about Chinese people, they'd still need to hear a number of other keywords to guess whether my comments were unflattering or otherwise. A few examples of keywords that locals are unlikely to hear, and even less likely to take offense at: pollution, education, indoctrination, shallowness, attitudes, politeness, hygiene, reasoning, dismal, shortsighted, etc.
Most of all, I believe I display far less body language than Chinese do, and feel no need to look at the people when I'm talking about them.
A while ago, my wife wanted to tell me something about a man in a tea house. She said: "You see that man over there?"
I took note of the direction she pointed at, I was aware of the man in the corner of my eye, and without turning to look, I asked: "Yes, what about him?"
My wife was stunned that I didn't look at the man when she directed me to look. Three times she signaled to me to look at the man, and I eventually said I don't want to be seen looking at him directly after she pointed at him.
She took offense at this, and never told me what was special about the man. Perhaps Chinese insist on direct observation when discussing a topic, or perhaps it was a relative who would gain face if I turned my head to look at him. Whatever the reason, I believe Westerners can be more indirect and subtle in communication, perhaps to maintain privacy and respect.
Because my body language is reserved for discussion parners and not onlookers, I believe I have offended fewer people when discussing them.
I do it during my really bad china days. But i prefer to do it in Chinese so the offenders know exactly who i am talking about. No one ever sais anything though i wish they would when i am in that state.
Opposite of your point in Inner Mongolia we hired a taxi for the afternoon and this guy HATED chinese. He wasnt a laowai lover and he mostly spoke with my wife and my friends. And he wasnt a mongol as I asked. He was a Han from Hebei. But he straight up hated Chinese. He said straight away that Japanese are faaaar better quality than Chinese and Koreans are somewhere in the middle which i complety agreed with. The thing that left the biggest impression was that it wasnt a rant to impress. He had logical and reasonable examples of how shitty Chinese people are.
We had obviously asked a few taxis for this expensive trip and his first quote was half of everyone else. He said that he preffered to take people from any other country because they dont try to take his money and he doesnt need to try to rip them off. We can save and he can earn.
I was in Urumqi a couple of days ago for my annual medical for a new resident permit.
So I was waiting outside the building for them to unlock the doors of this 'International Hospital' and as the clock got near to 10am I started up a yarn with my Chinese minder about yuezi. Is that what it's called? You know, the practice of retarded behaviour that surrounds child birth here. Anyhow, I'm ranting on about how it's not only retarded but basically a breach of human rights and guess what? The young woman standing next to me ahems and ahems and I recongize it and we have a conversation about all kinds of things. Turns out she speaks English and that makes a total of about 7 since I got here more than 5 years ago. In fact her English was really fantastic. Speaking would score at least 7.5!
She agreed that many things that go on in China are not compatible with a modern world.
Boy, was it great to have an intelligent conversation with a random!
I think it's a good rule of thumb to always assume people understand everything you're saying even though they probably don't. The other night I was having a conversation with a friend at a bbq restaurant that could have been interpreted as somewhat anti-China. Nothing was inflammatory or racist or anything but just some general complaining and feelings about people being untrustworthy. Anyways, I heard the guy at the other table say in Mandarin that we were saying his country was bad so now he'll say that our country is bad. The others at his table kind of laughed but nothing really came of it. Fortunately, we really didn't say anything offensive but clearly the guy understood enough of our conversation to catch a slight anti-China bias. No incident, no confrontation, just a reminder to be aware of what you say in public.
