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Q: Hillary or Bernie? Why or Why Not?
What is your preference?
Neither!
Bernie's brand of socialism is demonstrably unsustainable -- it's promises can't ever be realized.
Hillary's only core belief is that she deserves to be President, and she will do anything -- illegal or not, immoral or not in support of that belief.
Neither has, as far as I can tell, ever read the Constitution of the United States. Neither, based on the policies they advocate and their past behavior, could be trusted to fulfil a promise to protect and defend the Constitution.
The Democratic Party has created a narrative that the Republican Party is fundamentally fascist, while -- at the sme time -- propogating what are essentially fascist government edicts. They make the Rebublicans out to be "crony capitalists" while -- at the same time -- supporting the largest crony capitalist program in American history in support of "green" projects.
I'm not saying this in support of the Republican Party (it is no better than it's opposition). If I had to vote in the upcoming election, and was required to choose one of the major party candidates, I suspect I'd have a stroke on my way to the ballot box.
Shining_brow:
"Bernie's brand of socialism is demonstrably unsustainable -- it's promises can't ever be realized."
Then, please, go ahead and demonstrate... while the rest of the world laughs at you!
The majority of the western civiised world lives in Bernie's socialism. I don't think you'll find a single policy of his that isn't somewhere working incredibly well in some well-developed nation (usually in Europe) right now! Many of us non-Yanks read his policies, and think "What - you guys don't have that already? We've been doing that for decades!"
expatlife26:
yeah it's only unsustainable because we need such a big military. If we didn't build the F-35 we could have funded all of that stuff for decades
coineineagh:
Bernie's policies are a carbon copy of Roosevelt's. Roosevelt's staff knew they needed to get the country running smoothly and efficiently to win a world war, so they stopped playing around with ideological internal strife for the sake of the country. Was the Roosevelt era also demonstrably unsustainable? Get your delusional heads out of your asses. Bernie is hardly a socialist by European standards; he's a regular centrist. It's just that America is ideologically so far to the right, that every stabilizing and normalizing measure has to be left wing. USA is politically extremist. Replace "socialist" with "sympathy for infidels". Replace "socialist health insurance and tax policies hurting the rich" with "abolish Jizya tax disproportionately taxing non-muslims". Replace "less aggressive military spending" with "ignored religious head's call to join the Jihad". Now look in the mirror: You are your own worst enemy.
RiriRiri:
What model countries are you thinking about ?
And what policies are "working incredibly well" ?
Because in my book I'm seeing European socialism failing miserably everywhere. Not only for its unsustainability but also because policies will usually either backfire and make a mess of society (fund children and single parenthood? Divorce rates explode. Fund education? University starts teaching useless crap and propaganda. Fund healthcare? Enjoy waiting for 10 hours while you die, and the price of drugs explode in silence while you keep paying for them in taxes) or simply be diverted by the people who control it for their own purpose (let me shower you with money and stuff so you can vote for me, let me threaten everyone I dislike with a fund cut).
The long term observable effect of socialism is either dysgenic (sponsoring the stupidest people) or xenocracy (the reign of well-voting newcomers).
But honestly I wish Sanders could have had a shot, so Americans could have their bite at some sort of socialism and hopefully remember what their ancestors crossed a whole ocean for. Maybe Trump came around too early and you really needed things to get messier beforehand. Dunno, time will tell.
Not even going to scratch socialism in the rest of the world, we got plenty to laugh about already (but if you want to we definitely could, how's Venezuela doing lately ?).
coineineagh:
Venezuela is a dictatorship under USA's sphere of influence last I heard. And both China and America are hard at work breeding generations of entrenched, cowardly, system-abusing assholes who feel entitled to their petty fiefdoms. And they are vocal about feeling threatened by any socialist measure that might allow people to compete with them (childcare, health care, education) because you know: they're cowards. America was intended to be a land of opportunity and (religious/cultural) tolerance, as the founding fathers set it up. RiriRiri your ancestors overrun America with extremist religious fundamentalism so disfunctional that Europe didn't want them, and robber barons setting up holdings left, right and centre. Before long, the Federal Reserve Bank was created, private owned, which is exactly what the war of independence war fought over to avoid. The American heartlands has belief systems like Mormonism, so ridiculous and offensive that it boggles the mind. You grant church status to Scientology, giving a violent extortionist sect a legal foothold to spread around the globe. Stock exchanges in America have psychopaths as the most successful traders. But you still claim that 'conservatives' are the good guys ousted by all the allegedly external factors that ruined your country. In my experience, the conservative moniker is a claim to legitimacy by equating oneself to traditional aristocracy, but unlike the feudal system, the self-proclaimed American aristocrats have a very different measuring system of worthiness, which is nearly the opposite of gentility.
Neither!
Bernie's brand of socialism is demonstrably unsustainable -- it's promises can't ever be realized.
Hillary's only core belief is that she deserves to be President, and she will do anything -- illegal or not, immoral or not in support of that belief.
Neither has, as far as I can tell, ever read the Constitution of the United States. Neither, based on the policies they advocate and their past behavior, could be trusted to fulfil a promise to protect and defend the Constitution.
The Democratic Party has created a narrative that the Republican Party is fundamentally fascist, while -- at the sme time -- propogating what are essentially fascist government edicts. They make the Rebublicans out to be "crony capitalists" while -- at the same time -- supporting the largest crony capitalist program in American history in support of "green" projects.
I'm not saying this in support of the Republican Party (it is no better than it's opposition). If I had to vote in the upcoming election, and was required to choose one of the major party candidates, I suspect I'd have a stroke on my way to the ballot box.
Shining_brow:
"Bernie's brand of socialism is demonstrably unsustainable -- it's promises can't ever be realized."
Then, please, go ahead and demonstrate... while the rest of the world laughs at you!
The majority of the western civiised world lives in Bernie's socialism. I don't think you'll find a single policy of his that isn't somewhere working incredibly well in some well-developed nation (usually in Europe) right now! Many of us non-Yanks read his policies, and think "What - you guys don't have that already? We've been doing that for decades!"
expatlife26:
yeah it's only unsustainable because we need such a big military. If we didn't build the F-35 we could have funded all of that stuff for decades
coineineagh:
Bernie's policies are a carbon copy of Roosevelt's. Roosevelt's staff knew they needed to get the country running smoothly and efficiently to win a world war, so they stopped playing around with ideological internal strife for the sake of the country. Was the Roosevelt era also demonstrably unsustainable? Get your delusional heads out of your asses. Bernie is hardly a socialist by European standards; he's a regular centrist. It's just that America is ideologically so far to the right, that every stabilizing and normalizing measure has to be left wing. USA is politically extremist. Replace "socialist" with "sympathy for infidels". Replace "socialist health insurance and tax policies hurting the rich" with "abolish Jizya tax disproportionately taxing non-muslims". Replace "less aggressive military spending" with "ignored religious head's call to join the Jihad". Now look in the mirror: You are your own worst enemy.
RiriRiri:
What model countries are you thinking about ?
And what policies are "working incredibly well" ?
Because in my book I'm seeing European socialism failing miserably everywhere. Not only for its unsustainability but also because policies will usually either backfire and make a mess of society (fund children and single parenthood? Divorce rates explode. Fund education? University starts teaching useless crap and propaganda. Fund healthcare? Enjoy waiting for 10 hours while you die, and the price of drugs explode in silence while you keep paying for them in taxes) or simply be diverted by the people who control it for their own purpose (let me shower you with money and stuff so you can vote for me, let me threaten everyone I dislike with a fund cut).
The long term observable effect of socialism is either dysgenic (sponsoring the stupidest people) or xenocracy (the reign of well-voting newcomers).
But honestly I wish Sanders could have had a shot, so Americans could have their bite at some sort of socialism and hopefully remember what their ancestors crossed a whole ocean for. Maybe Trump came around too early and you really needed things to get messier beforehand. Dunno, time will tell.
Not even going to scratch socialism in the rest of the world, we got plenty to laugh about already (but if you want to we definitely could, how's Venezuela doing lately ?).
coineineagh:
Venezuela is a dictatorship under USA's sphere of influence last I heard. And both China and America are hard at work breeding generations of entrenched, cowardly, system-abusing assholes who feel entitled to their petty fiefdoms. And they are vocal about feeling threatened by any socialist measure that might allow people to compete with them (childcare, health care, education) because you know: they're cowards. America was intended to be a land of opportunity and (religious/cultural) tolerance, as the founding fathers set it up. RiriRiri your ancestors overrun America with extremist religious fundamentalism so disfunctional that Europe didn't want them, and robber barons setting up holdings left, right and centre. Before long, the Federal Reserve Bank was created, private owned, which is exactly what the war of independence war fought over to avoid. The American heartlands has belief systems like Mormonism, so ridiculous and offensive that it boggles the mind. You grant church status to Scientology, giving a violent extortionist sect a legal foothold to spread around the globe. Stock exchanges in America have psychopaths as the most successful traders. But you still claim that 'conservatives' are the good guys ousted by all the allegedly external factors that ruined your country. In my experience, the conservative moniker is a claim to legitimacy by equating oneself to traditional aristocracy, but unlike the feudal system, the self-proclaimed American aristocrats have a very different measuring system of worthiness, which is nearly the opposite of gentility.
Bernie. Hillary is tainted . There has been a lot of mud slung at her, some of it undeservedly.
America already hands gazillions out to its corporate masters in bailouts and tax breaks. This is the worst kind of socialism.
If America didn't blow billions on propping up Israel and trillions on its bloated military then maybe they could afford basic health care and education for its less fortunate citizens.
Hilary is a war-monger. I'm actually surprised she's a Democrat! the impression I get from her is that she'll never listen to real, good advice if it goes against her goals.
Bernie, OTOH, seems the sort of person who actually relies on the knowledge and wisdom that people with more training and experience provide.
anyone who would even consider hillary should have there head examined she cant tell the truth she got fired from her law firm for lieing shes as corrupt as hell she stole furniture and paintings from the white house when bill left a felony got caught and had to return them bull going to lolitta island with his friend epstien the billionaire got convicted of having sex there with under age children and refused to testify against bill i never had sex with her clinton is in prison hillary doing all she can to dis credit these woman if thats not enough go to yahoo type in clinton body count where 49 people mysteryously died 1 a witness against hillary which would have put her in prison for 15 to 20 years is this the best the us has really
Seems a silly system to me. Gotta register so long ago that it's in the too hard basket and the amount of money involved in 'fund raising' is mind bending. Where are the country's best interests being held?
Free tip; look for an interloper to come in and save the day. Cape on would be best.
ironman510:
Lets note the Trump used his own money and didn't fund raise.
royceH:
Noted. So no financial backers at all? Didn't know that.
Nevertheless, if so, undoubtedly no small amount. Like hundreds of millions or something?
Seems fukd up.
royceH:
I should add that my conspiracy theory has it that he and Hillary long ago stitched up an agreement to guarantee her the white house. And now, 20 odd years later, this is how he does it.
On the strength of this theory, it follows he didn't undertake to fulfill his end of the bargain for nix.
Stiggs:
If you like a good conspiracy theory, ask yourself why someone would spend millions on a campaign to land a job that pays about 400k a year. ;)
i think Hussein will throw her under the bus when the time is right and put Biden or Warren in the seat, not sure he wants his legacy forgotten so soon by the first woman president to take his ego trips away as the first so called black president. he is staying in Washington to bitch moan and complain as they tear down his mess.
it will be an interesting sight to see Trump tearing down everything, the sooner the better.
expatlife26:
That's a pretty ridiculous interpretation. I'm not saying i'm a big fan of either of them but that is a ludicrous outcome to expect.
Statements like that (and far worse you see elsewhere) are why republicans are fast losing any social credibility at a time when the excesses of the now-socially dominant left desperately need a rational, reasonable counterweight. Smart conservatives need to be living in reality now more than ever. it's how the left won my generation btw, when I was growing up social conservatives were dominant and acted like assholes trying to ban the simpsons and brand music as devilry. The left was the reasonable "let it be" side. Now the left is dictating morality and maintain a moral majority. The right needs to recognize that and become the side of reasonableness over victim-mongering and finger pointing.
coineineagh:
What is it with you white Americans and this imaginary race war? Number of times Obama talks about his half-black heritage: too few to remember. Number of times he plays victim: Zero. Number of times angry white Americans accuse him of playing the race card: Embarrassingly many. WTF... Obama may be another corporate toady, but he isn't a token nigger. Get that through your delusional skull.
retiredinchina:
seventy percent of my fellow white americans voted for this piece of garbage and race relations are worse than they have ever been.
i never mentioned race in my comments anyway, the left automatically throws that out to deflect an argument. there is a real animosity between clinton, especially bill and hussein, he said they bring a knife we bring a gun. time will tell the story. now if you want to bring race into the argument, i grew up in the ghetto, not a middle class protected area, calling hussein the "n" word is quite disrespectful to the brothers who truly are the "n" word. jesse jackson wanted to rip his testicles off, microphone caught the comment, he showed up in Chicago after living the rich white society life and joined the most radical black church he could find to the get the "n" vote because he has never been one. Just because someone tells the story and it hurts someone feelings does not mean the story is false, the truth always comes with a butt burn or two.
in regard to social conservative issues, i really don't give a damn, in regard to financial issues, its too late, the country is bankrupt, its over, most conservatives are leaving the country, we have a network of us all over the world, the debt can never be paid, the influx of immigrants will flood the country with poverty and crime, the college debt bomb will kill the education system, its over, no reason to return. trump cant fix the problem, nobody can, we are finished.coineineagh:
You did bring up his race. But if you meant he wasn't "really" black, I misunderstood. And yes, the USA can't service its debt anymore, but a large part of the cause is that the Federal Reserve is private-owned, that Bush instituted tax cuts for the rich, and Obama added massive bailout packages. Even if Bernie were to start sane government, the government would still be in trouble. Your network of expats are no more than kids who complain that their parents house is unlivable after trashing it themselves.
retiredinchina:
I wish that was true about trashing the house, i could live with that, no regrets, but most of them were the highly productive type, high income type, who simply said enough, enough,
Giving money for wars, poverty, right, left, pick your poison, nobody is every accountable for the results of the policies. The policy is what is most important, and results are never measured. The bashing of police even his own former chief of staff in Chicago is creating black gentrification in urban areas and crime is skyrocketing everywhere. More guns have been sold in America in 8 years of Hussein than the entire history of America, and the number of women packing heat is astounding.
The productive tax payer is leaving and the numbers will only get worse, the rich ones are changing passports, the middle class will be gone soon. It is very sad and could have been avoided, but nobody would listen, debt is a powerful drug to political power in the short term, but it always causes revolution eventually, no matter how stable the government.
coineineagh:
How is investing in the humanities comparable to wasting money on wars, tax cuts and bailouts? The USA does have a systemic problem, and it's money in politics.
retiredinchina:
we have had humanities overload for the last 8 years, nobody in hussiens cabinet has ever worked in the private sector, not a single one. professors and theories running a free market, how did that work out?
like i said, it's over, the fat lady has sung, the light at the end of the tunnel is gone.
coineineagh:
The country was already a mess before the Obama administration. And if you look at his record, you would not have imagined the guy elected in 2008 would pass such right-wing bills into law. Extending the Bush tax cuts, military spending, they all seem written by a GOP think tank. He is either a complete corporate sell-out, or he was always as powerless as a wet paper bag.
retiredinchina:
yes coin, that we can agree on, Harry Reid's protege', and nobody noticed.
Let's get this party started, 3 times a charm.
So the center is afraid of the socialist progressives, Biden will stick his foot in his mouth again and Hillary comes in on a white horse to rescue the party.
What a bunch of F** idiots?
ambivalentmace:
https://time.com/3924857/hillary-clinton-2020/
yes a debate between Tulsi Gabbard and Hillary, cat fight, bring the popcorn.
ambivalentmace:
https://www.facebook.com/hillaryclinton2020
I may make a donation just to see the fireworks.
ambivalentmace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPCefneyu9Y
Sky news Australia, Hillary is running. TV broadcast.
retiredinchina:
Why not? Jurassic Park number 3 was a pretty good movie but the popcorn was stale. I don't know how you spin hope and change into a better narrative for the uneducated and how you throw red meat to the social progressives and convince them your not lying to them. The crazy left would probably go third party, which would be good to stop the 2 party corporate oligopoly in there tracks.
Trump-a by wide margin ... he he. Never involved into voting in my entire life, buTT still ... my 'horse' is a winner. Watch&Learn, he he
I have Trump-a's achievements as POTUS somewhere. Wait ...
Interesting read:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-08/trump-playing-4d-chess-china
It's one of the comments on above weblink:
Trump’s list: 289 accomplishments in just 20 months, ‘relentless’ promise-keeping
by Paul Bedard
| October 12, 2018 08:43 AM
The Trump administration’s often overlooked list of achievements has surpassed those of former President Ronald Reagan at this time and more than doubled since the last tally of accomplishments after his first year in office, giving President Trump a solid platform to run for re-election on.
As Trump nears the two-year mark of his historic election and conducts political rallies around the country, during which he talks up his wins in hopes it will energize Republican voters, the administration has counted up 289 accomplishments in 18 categories, capped by the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court.
They include 173 major wins, such as adding more than 4 million jobs, and another 116 smaller victories, some with outsize importance, such as the 83 percent one-year increase in arrests of MS-13 gang members.
“Trump’s successes in reducing the cost of taxes and regulations, rebuilding our military, avoiding wars of choice and changing the courts rival those of all previous Republican presidents,” said Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform.
“Trump has an advantage over Ronald Reagan: He has a Reagan Republican House and Senate while Reagan had a [Democratic Speaker] Tip O’Neill House and a pre-Reagan Republican Senate. Reagan and [former GOP Speaker] Newt Gingrich were the ice breakers that allowed Trump’s victories to grow in number and significance,” he added.
Unlike the Year One list which included many proposals and orders still to be acted on, the new collection includes dozens of actions already in place, signed legislation, and enforced executive orders.
... more ... on China especially, he he
The Dems current candidates chief criticism of Trump is that heis enforcing the immigration laws written by congress and mis-interpreted by the courts. None of the current candidates seem the least interested in protecting or defending the constitution so my current answer is the same as my old one -- neither. Not Bernie, not Hillary, not any of 'em. Not Trume, either, since he's too controversial, and too easily manipulated by his "advisors." Also, he is in no way an espouser of classic Liberalism (now more often called Libertarianism)
My first choice would be Utah's Mia Love (since Condi is getting a bit too old) 'cause an actual conservative who happens to be a black woman would be a big plus for the Reps. But the chances of me voting at all are essentially zero. I pretty much gave up when the Libertarian party was taken over by fruitcakes, and the Republicans decided winning was more important than ideals.
Bernie is a fraudster 3 luxury homes luxury cars access to private jets job professional politician enough said and Hillary is all about Hillary f the people
