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Q: How can anybody be proud to be an American anymore?
*Selling information on how to become Chinese citizion.*
So im guessing you are one of those whom will be calling for do over?
You have to have a narrow view of the world in order to become a chinese citizen.
Once, I wrote in my reply to Bill: 'If things will go that way, soon you'll be only able to whisper 'I am an American!'.
It was around 2012 with 'torture in Iraq and Guantanamo' affair. Bush Jr.& Cheney time.
ambivalentmace:
yes, I was ashamed to be an American when 70 percent of my white Americans voted for an idiot professor because of "white guilt syndrome" and now black Americans are worse off eight years later from the collective stupidity of the first black president, thank whatever evil spirits and foul demons that live that we don't want to be screwed by the first woman president as well, fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me, but things will get better in a couple of years unless the narcissistic idiot who never said we americans or all of us but used the word "i" 47 times in 12 minute speech, made it beyond repair.
icnif77:
Isn't it easier, if you skip voting? 
I also know, you know 'R.P. McMurphy' ... Jack Nicholson's role ....I just felt-that-way, while reading around the Internet about 'Erection in USA' ...LOL
I'd rarely reply to a troll,,, but I just want to say that I am proud to be an American citizen.
Among other things, I am proud that we conduct an electoral process, flawed as it may be, in which pretty much the whole country get's involved to some degree or another and over a period of several months we work it out through relatively reasonable discussion and then we freely and openly elect representatives to govern our nation and it's affairs.
Yes, I'm proud of that.
royceH:
Jambali ten feet high keem o sabi..... I've got the lyrics wrong. But anyway, go Diver.
Englteachted:
I'm beginning to think not as flawed as I felt this morning. If a Chinese leader refused to bend to the will of the people like Hilary and the DNC, could the Chinese people block them from power, NO!
Also, becoming a Chinese citizen is the last thing I (and many others) would want.
Sadly, the system actually worked. People elected Obama hoping to get a politician that would do what they the people wanted; end to militarism, closing Guantanimo Bay, jobs, end to the shitting trade deals; but what we got was expanded droning, more shitty trade deals or the continuation of the existing, more legals and refugees coming in to keep wages low, his own 3 quarter trillion bail out to help pay executives bonuses and to help some companies set up shop in China.
Dems and established Reps refused to address the issues that mattered the most to Americans so the voters gave them all the finger and said 'not you not again'. If politicians refuse to bend to the public's wishes then they will keep you jobless. Remember Hilary was Sec of State during the Ukraine debacle (America is the country that started that and the reason why we are possibly entering another cold war). Dems, Obama, is bombing in Syria for no damn reason.
I'm not happy but I understand, I hope the Democratic party gets it and we see sensible pragmatic plans for 2018. Let's not forget also, the DNC screwed over Bernie and this is a little payback from Bernie supporters.
Shining_brow:
"Dems, Obama, is bombing in Syria for no damn reason."
No no.... there are reasons! Firstly, to keep the evil Russians in check, and secondly o put a gas pipeline through Syria (after they've removed a legally (even if questionably) elected sovereign leader is removed). And, thirdly, it helps keep the whole area de-stabilised, so it allows all those rich mercenary (oh, I mean 'security') companies and weapon manufacturers in their expensive cars, yachts and islands....
Englteachted:
As I said, no damn reason. You don't fucking kill people for that. You don't risk nuclear war for that.
icnif77:
Many 'don't do that damn thing(s)' from USA in the last 15-20 years.
The problem is what does it mean to be an American now. Before yesterday, America was the country that sort of maintained a world order through the international institutions it built at the end of the second world war. That's over with now. We sort of have to find out what being American means.
Englteachted:
International policy has been used to try and change the ethnic make up western countries too much in order to drive wages down, shipping jobs out of the country, funding countries that are amassing arms to go to war against us, involving ourselves in wars especially civil wars, an outlandish military budget, revamped tensions with Russia because we kept fighting the cold war while they were trying to see us as equal partners
ambivalentmace:
International institutions are not acceptable to local citizens in most countries just the elites who thinks it's best for us low life deplorables. All politics is local, leaders forget this theory when they get some power and they want to be a world unity gang.
Shining_brow:
"International institutions are not acceptable to local citizens in most countries just the elites who thinks it's best for us low life deplorables. All politics is local, leaders forget this theory when they get some power and they want to be a world unity gang."
Unless your local leader hates your guts and wants you dead! Or steals all the wealth. Of puts the people into starvation. Or kidnaps and tortures and murders people. Or basic human rights are ignored to keep that power.
Englteachted:
Shining , you're skewing to the extreme. Simply put, the Marshal Plan, which sort kicked things off, helped our allies to get on their feet and it put Americans to work by opening markets to American companies (and came in under budget). Recently , maybe the last 20 years, we've been propping up govts that actually hate us (China, Pakistan). Our govt officials have been trying to leverage third world workers against domestic workers in order to force lower wages. Also bringing in people to take lower class and now middle class jobs and Dems openly saying they support a change in demographic . If Australian politicians said they wanted to bring in more non Australians in order to change the demographics, would Australians accept it?
Shining_brow:
A couple of points... firstly, you say I'm extreme, and then you say China and Pakistan 'hate' America...!!!!
Secondly, are you sure your government actually planned to lower wages? Rather than to help rich business owners (particularly manufacturers) get richer?? Your government's plan was actually to screw over the people they governed?? (other than the general screwing over that the people get... this is an intentional screwing over for no other reason than to screw someone over... very yangist!)
Third - ummmm... actually, the Australian government DID say, a few decades ago, "we need more migrants to change the demographic"...! It's called an 'immigration policy', and when you favour one group over another, then it's intentionally changing the demographic!
Lastly, Icnif will probably comment that I've done 3 (plus this one) when I wrote 'couple' above :p
Your government allowed easier trade (ie, imports) from other countries so people (ie, business owners) could make more profit. That reduced income to the local lower and middle class (outsourcing), which mean lower-level ("mom & pop") businesses couldn't compete - unless they lowered wages, which meant taking on workers who would accept a lower salary (eg, illegal immigrants) OR going out of business (which happened a LOT).
Please remind me - which political party wants less government intervention in business, so that they can make as much profit as they can get away with??
icnif77:
@Shining: 'I just want to point it out how good I became in Englo. '
I can go 'grammatical' 
on anybody ...
I hope that while many may feel proud that their system still works in some ways, and there are other things to be proud of, that it doesn't remain so strong that they're not willing to look at the way other countries do things, and start taking a few leaves out of those books.
The biggest flaw for any government (and patriotic peoples) is the unwillingness to admit that maybe, just maybe, others do it better!
Shining_brow:
Yes, it is... but we can pluralise 'people', so that we can talk about all the different peoples (types) in the world. So, Canadians would talk about 'First Nations Peoples', rather than 'People'.
All the people in the US, and all the people in Canada, and blah blah blah... so, all those different peoples.
icnif77:
Interesting point, however it wasn't/isn't visible from you 'peoples' above. Or maybe, it is. I usually 'scan' readings in other languages, but at return to the same text, I can see other possibilities/means.
Selling info on how to be Chinese because you are Chinese
As an American, the only thing I may not be proud off is the fact that on every Presidential election, less and less Americans bother to vote.
And if I was still proud when Obama was elected, I do not see a reason to be less proud when in reality apaty of voters to go to the voting booths was the real reason Trump won.
Many Democrats chose to stay home, and also many Afro-Americans emulate them. So, we are now stuck with a President elected by less than 1/4 of elegible voters. That is the only thing I am not proud of !
philbravery:
out of interest are you for or against compulsory voting?
joseph2016:
In Australia they have they have compulsory voting but not many more choices... And my Australian friends told me that in many cases young people vote like their parents like that they don't get the fine but they don't really follow politics..
A system that works is one that facilitates popular participation in the decision making, but lets be honest it' impossible with 300m people...
philbravery:
at least with our system you can't say you didn't have the opportunity to have a say . how many of those protesters voted?
Shining_brow:
"at least with our system you can't say you didn't have the opportunity to have a say"
Precisely!
"A system that works is one that facilitates popular participation in the decision making, but lets be honest it' impossible with 300m people..".
Rubbish! There is no good reason why all of your eligible voters couldn't get out and vote! I would suggest, though, that your system actively discourages a 100% turnout. Why? Because, if you had mandatory voting, those that didn't vote may be more likely to vote for one of the alternative, independent parties or candidates - the ones currently considered a 'waste' of a vote. In Australia, those 'wasted' votes have held the balance of power for quite a while, and those 5 or 6 senators make a difference! They've also brought in bills that the other parties haven't touched.
(Granted, it also brought in Family First and One Nation...)
HappyExPat:
I would not go as far as compulsory voting, but would love to see above 89 % participation. That will make me very proud!
I think we have to take responsibility for the crappy politicians we get.
People are fed up with politics and I get it, the establishment makes it impossible for anyone to get his idea through, but if we give up as a people then it's also our fault...
I think we got what we deserve with Trump. For some he's the one they wanted to change the system but I doubt he'll manage even that. For others it's the end of the world. But the election just got the Republicans in charge for at least the next two years and probably the next four, and President Trump is prob just gonna follow their decisions...
If we really want to shake things up we have to all get more involved, voting and supporting independent politicians who want to change the system.
As for whether we can feel proud? Probably not. It's changing the opinion people had of the US as a land of diversity
Shining_brow:
"For some he's the one they wanted to change the system but I doubt he'll manage even that"
That would actually take convincing his party members in the congress and the senate that teh system actually needs changing - which would also mean the possibility that they would lose their seat... not going to happen!!!
Well, so similar to Chinese ...they are. ...copy copy...So first they put pineapple on a pizza, then ketchup on spaghetti and now this poor version of berlusconi...'what's next, penis enlargment and call themselves Mario ?
I actually sometimes make a mistake, not often but this statement by Michael Moore may actually change my opinion of him.http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/11/michael-moore-millions-of-trump-voters-elected-obama-twice-theyre-not-racist-video/
it is not a surprise however that it was not published or reported by the american press, the fouth branch of government and susidiary of the democratic party.
Shining_brow:
Quantitative data analysis has some flaws, which qualitative research can patch up...
Q: is it possible to be racist against one group of people, but not against another? If so, is it still 'racist'?
ambivalentmace:
so if a racist voted for the black savior and trump but not clinton, would that not be a sexist possibly but not a racists, but if a woman voted for obuma and trump, that would make here a what?/maphrodite, lesbian, i give up , help me out here.
