By continuing you agree to eChinacities's Privacy Policy .
Sign up with Google Sign up with FacebookQ: How close are China and the US really?
With a the veritrol spewing from the media on both sides of the pond...could either really be what they are today without each other?
Like lovers that hate each other but have crazy awesome animal sex so they continue? (metaphor of course)
Wouldn't you love to hear those back channel diplomatic conversations?
Have you seen Canadian Bacon? They both need enemies (cold war style) to keep people scared enough to be stupid but behind the scenes they are humping like high-schoolers after a booze addled prom.
What do you think?
I certainly think the USA needs an 'enemy' to focus on. Look at what has happened to the USA since they 'won' the cold war. Science teaching is going backwards, NASA spending cut to the bone, end of the Space Shuttle, religious extremism is coming to the fore and even threatening the cherished constitutional separation of Church and State, as Neil Degrasse Tyson put it, "I don't have an issue with what you do in the church, but I'm going to be up in your face if you're going to knock on my science classroom and tell me they've got to teach what you're teaching in your Sunday school. Because that's when we're going to fight."
China too needs an 'enemy' but for different reasons, if you are focusing on someone else you are less likely to be concerned about domestic problems, China have always (well since the CPC came to power) used the USA for this. Of course there is also the other scapegoat of Japan.
I genuinely think USA is in terminal decline, it will remain the greatest military power for a long time to come but as the centre of creativity, invention science and freedom? I think those days are dying, and I honestly don't know who else will take up that torch, (certainly not China imho).
mattsm84:
Man, as a young American I see it completely differently, and am very optimistic about the future of my country. Our immediate problems are solvable. I mean, we'll probably go over the fiscal slope, but then that gives both sides an opportunity to quibble over which taxes to cut rather than which taxes to raise, which is something both seem to do much better. After that our greatest longing term problem is that our baby boomers are starting to require ever increasing amounts of public money as they grow old and die off, but once there gone we'll be sitting pretty.
I wouldn't trade our future with anyone. China has an unbelievable amount of hurt coming from its housing bubble in the short term, and its aging population in the long term, and the Euro isn't going to make it through the decade because once Italy or France require a bail out its curtains. On the other hand, the the will still lead in innovation because it's likely to retain its strong university system, it will likely continue to be a center of creativity because its population is so diverse, and it is likely to remain a military power because its going to keep throwing stacks of money at its military.
Hugh.G.Rection:
I disagree with you on two counts,
1. While the US education system may continue to create leaders in the scientific fields without the 'dreams' given by a fully funded and focused NASA they will go elsewhere once graduated to carry on their research. Look at your history and see how many of your greatest discoveries were made by those who came to the USA for the education and stayed to do research. Just look up Neil DeGrasse Tyson (and American Astro Physicist who has given evidence on this very subject to Congress btw) and read his views, (if you can access youtube even better as he is a very funny person too).
2. I don't think there is a major housing disaster looming anytime in the next 30 years in China, localised re-adjustments maybe but the government are too well aware of the social unrest problems a major crash may cause and have already taken several steps to restrict demand and prices.
Additionally every time in history when a major power has been overtaken by religious extremes that nation has declined beyond repair. I see that happening in the USA right now. The greatest disaster of all about that is I see no other nation willing or able to step up to that plate, I fear a new 'dark ages'.
mattsm84:
1) Yes, I'm a big fan of Dr. Tyson, and have been for some time. I'm actually rather pleased that the US is still turning out celebrity astrophysicists (Hawkings, Sagan et al). We seem to be the only people that do that. But you need to understand that when he makes the points that he's making, he's doing it because he's trolling for funds. And at the present time the sad truth is that the US has to, at this moment, sink more money into entitlements to support an aging population, so NASA can expect to see it funding cut until we have more money to spend on extras. I'm sure we'll get back into it in 10 or 15 years once most of the Boomers have died out and we start to feel butt hurt over not being the best in something we used to dominate. We are very good at spending money on toys, after all.
2. I think that you're giving them too much credit. They've know this has been coming but they aren't going to do the one thing that they need to do that really can avert the crisis, open up other areas for investment. As it stands they are still funneling people towards investing in the housing market, and that's why even now it continues to balloon. As time goes on, and the rate growth continues to slow, the NPL ratios are going to sky rocket and the banks will be over leveraged, if they aren't already.
3. The US has hardly been overtaken by the religious right. In fact, the hold these people have on government is shrinking, and they've ruined the republican brand for the next 30 years. Look at the exist poling, people under 35 are voting in overwhelming numbers for gay marriage, and the protection of abortion rights. So every year, the religious portion of the electorate gets smaller and smaller. As their numbers dwindle, they become more extreme. They have to howl louder and louder about some bit of lunacy or other to turn out their base or they risk getting clobbered by 15 points instead of winning or losing by one or two. They've essentially put themselves in a situation where they can compete in small elections, like for legislative seats at the state level and seats in the lower house on the national level, but can't contend for larger offices like seats in the upper house or the the presidency.
Hugh.G.Rection:
You have some good points, I think we will continue to disagree on the Chinese housing market, as I said, local readjustments yes I expect that, but I see no evidence for a national crash looming, quite the contrary, especially with the enormous cash surplus enjoyed by the national government added to the restrictions put in place on banks about how much they must hold in reserve.
Yes it is (still) great that the USA produces great physicists but that was part of my point, 20 years ago you educated them and then they stayed to do their research, now they are leaving in growing numbers, and that isn't a good sign, the developments that Tyson, Kraus et al made took many years, if you stop the research funds now they (and their ilk) will go elsewhere, (Russia, China?).
One point on the Physicists, USA did not 'produce' Stephen Hawking he is British born, educated and raised.
mattsm84:
That may be true about Hawking. But like Einstein, we were the ones that made him a star.
Hugh.G.Rection:
Sorry to be a pedant, but while you are totally correct with Einstein, Hawking has only every had one collaboration with an American University (Caltech 1997) to date. His graduate work was at Oxford and all his post grad was at Cambridge.
mattsm84:
No, I mean that we actually like putting him on TV.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking_in_popular_culture
I think the US is finally waking up and in a few years, once the common man knows and understands what China is really about, the decline will begin.
Considering that 10 years ago if a senior police officer of any ilk from a large Chinese city sought asylum in a United States Consulate and would have never been denied asylum and consider what happened this summer, that in my opinion, is probably the real answer -- a lot closer than most on this Board would ever come to believe.
The US and China are incredibly close economically. China buys US treasury bonds to subsidize its own manufacturing industry, mean that Americans buy Chinese goods with dollars that are in part supported by the Yuan, and the money China spent ends up flowing back to them with a smaller multiplier attached than would have had they used the money to support Chinese manufacturing directly, as the Japanese did two decades prior. For its part the US gets to spend a little more money without having its to risk inflation in its currency. Labeling China a "currency manipulator" is really just red meat thrown to American industrial workers in an election year. On the Chinese side, its just that the Chinese people like to see China standing up for itself against what they know is a larger power after being the world's punching bag for a hundred years, which is a perception the CCP does a lot to maintain.
From a foreign policy prospective, the US is in opposition to China in East Asia as its goals, maintaining stability for its own economic benefit, and China's, territorial expansion by way of economic or marshal pressure, are at odds.
Like two parallel line..always go together but never meet each other..