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Q: How do you feel about overachieving foreign ESL teachers?
I have a negative feeling towards overachieving, non-career seeking foreign ESL teachers. Okay, before you start insulting, please let me provide a description.
This teacher comes to China to teach ESL for a year, or maybe two, but certainly isn't looking for a career in ESL teaching. They are extremely passionate, relatively good at teaching, and the Chinese staff adore them.
The aforementioned traits, in my opinion, are great qualities for a foreign teacher to possess. However, there is one quality, which I haven't yet mentioned, that is extremely irritating. The willingness to do more, without financial compensation, outside of their contractual agreement with the school.
In most instances this doesn't mean additional teaching hours,but instead refers to providing additional support to the poorly managed school in the form of acquiring resources for the school, researching curricula, interviewing candidates for teaching positions, and basically anything else that is asked of them without ever saying "No.".
In turn this pressures me to work harder, and even venture outside of my contracted hours without additional compensation. The truth is I am a wee-bit jealous, because I want to be respected and loved the most. But, I am struggling to shake the feeling that I would be getting taken advantage of without receiving additional compensation.
How do you feel about this situation? What would you do?
8 years 47 weeks ago in Teaching & Learning - China
What is he going to get promoted to? Foreign teacher manager perhaps. These are usually just losers who do a lot more and get paid a little more. Mostly they also need to teach. If you are an effective teacher they should respect you. Unpaid work is not cool. if he is not an experienced teacher then it sounds like he is cutting corners on lesson planning. if he doesn't speak Chinese then probably he's about as useful as a spare tit.
erm.... its called going the extra mile. Its a good question, but its not China specific. What you describe is going on in sweatshops world wide. Its the capatalist dream. Competition for low paid jobs. Thats the system. Thats the system the bankers bribed the politians to get, left or right, east or west.
What are you jealous of exactly? That this person does more work than you do? Easy way to fix that. I'm no teacher so it's not much my place to give advice. However I imagine that if you are a good enough teacher then you don't need to do that extra stuff. If the new guy is happy shouldering those responsabilities then that's all the better for you, is it not? He'll be bugged to do it all while you don't have to... so i don't really see how that's a problem. Let the guy do his thing and cherish that, cause he'll eventually burn out and those tasks will start being put towards you.
I do those extra things that you mentioned (providing additional support to the poorly managed school in the form of acquiring resources for the school, researching curricula, interviewing candidates for teaching positions...etc).
I also say no to things that I don't want to do. Making yourself indispensable is a cunning trick to pull on employer. It comes in handy come contract renegotiation time.
morget:
This is a valid point, but you mentioned that the school you work for is poorly managed. Why would you want to resign your contract with them if there are many other ESL teaching jobs available?
I treat them the same as they treat me. If I must fight with them about the (respecting) Contract provisions, then I have much less time for the classes prep and volunteering at extra classes.
In Xinjiang Public School, school was respecting the Contract, so I offered them few extra English classes with intellectually disabled kids, who were in the same classes with other kids. It was my first time to teach disabled kids mixed in the large 50 students classes.
Some of them were better in English than other, normal kids, but problem with disabled kids is they need much more attention, which they can't get in big class.
School didn't give me an answer for extra classes, and started to disrespect Contract provisions (less pay mostly). After first warning to the Head, I called SAFEA with complain.
My present Contract require I teach 15 x 45' classes a week, no office time. I work over 20h/week altogether with class prep, but this school is completely different than usual Chinese schools.
I received full salary refund for 3m of waiting for Z docs. in EU. They purchased all tickets for traveling to EU and return to Kaifeng, when I had to exit China last Sept. As we signed Contract last year, school's authorization for laowai hire was still in progress, so they weren't able to extend my valid RP.
They waited for me at Zhengzhou Railway Station on my return at 2am (Head with the driver), and escorted me to my apartment.
I usually mind my business and do my work, completely disregarding other people's work.
This isn't a China issue or a teaching issue. It is a personality issue. Employers generally will favor those who give a good effort, produce positive results, and go above and beyond what is strictly required of them. People who state, "it isn't my job", "isn't in my job description", "why do you work so hard, it makes the rest of us look bad" are what I refer to as bare minimum individuals. They do the bare minimum required, working just enough to keep their job, but nothing more.
Don't begrudge people who do more than the bare minimum, it is their decision to make. As is your decision to do as little as possible.
morget:
In other career fields I completely understand, but this is ESL teaching and I stated in my OP that this particular person isn't looking for a career in teaching ESL.
expatlife26:
Yeah if I worked in ESL and wanted to bust my ass it would be to take on more BILLABLE HOURS not to participate in stuff that's irrelevant.
ESL just isn't that kind of job. It doesn't build a ton of skills you can transfer elsewhere.
It doesn't sound like the OP is saying they want to do a bad job with the teaching but just avoid impositions on their time which are of no benefit to them.
I'm actually gonna conditionally take sides with the OP here. I don't read this as "These people who take their jobs seriously are ruining it for me being lazy!"
He's saying "people come here acting like it's some kind of vacation lower my bargaining power as someone who is living ESL as a life"
If ESL is all you have and you've been doing it a while I can see it being frustrating that you're held to the standards of enthusiasm of a 23 year old who is doing it for a year and then leaving. You're probably better at it for one thing (though unlikely your employer cares) and you just don't wanna do stupid extra shit because where is your incentive to?
You aren't getting a promotion
You aren't getting a significant raise
So it's like now the standard is set that you have to spend whats supposed to be your free time working at no additional pay.
I mean I personally put my career ahead of EVERYTHING else in my life, which has earned me a certain degree of stability and prosperity but can cause issues in personal relationships. But I have the incentive to do that.
Boss asks if I can do something out of scope of my JD i'll usually just say "Sure I can totally build a P/L forecasting model!" and then look up what P/L means and how to forecast it. But then "P/L forecasting" goes straight on my linkedin and CV making me more competitive in the market.
But it would be ignorant for me to just look at some guy with a clock punching kind of job and say "well why don't you just go the extra mile like I do!" because the answer is that they have no reason to. Their boss sure as hell isn't running a charity would should they?
your popularity with the customers is the only measuring bar that matters in private teaching. this young buck is ingratiating himself with staf (maybe he likes a girl there and just wants more time with her?), but is it gaining him any recognition with kids and parents? students won't leave classmates to sit in another teachers class easily, so do you rrally have anything to worry about? extracurricular activities are volunteer-only. chinese will copy and follow boss's expectations without question, but you shouldn't.
Haha, that's like going to the gym and lifting heaving to get bigger.
Someone taps on the arm. "Excuse me dude, can you like... not lift so heavy and workout so hard... the women are checking you out more than me and I can't handle it!"
Now, tell me... what would you do?
expatlife26:
ehhh, not quite the same. Gym is supposed to be fun. It's something you choose to do and regardless of what weight you're putting up you're still benefiting from it.
What I think is going on here is that everyone's bargaining power is lowered by people who simply agree to do whatever they're asked. Like if they tell you that you need to come in the weekend for some event that you:
1. Don't get paid extra for
2. Does not allow you to showcase skills/initiative leading to promotion/career development
3. Don't learn or hone valuable skills for career development
So it's not even in the best interests of the person volunteering to do it. It's the company being exploitive and the other guy being a pushover or eager beaver to no benefit.
If nobody was willing to do whatever for free, and the company thought it was necessary. Then they'd pay for it. But apparently some jerk always will, and therefore nobody gets to make any extra $ and everybody has to have their time imposed on against their best interests.
Hell, think of it this way. If you're a teacher with initiative every you spend doing unpaid work for that job is an hour you aren't billing to a client elsewhere.
RachelDiD:
Haha, they do that to me, too. I will be running my way through my 11th kilometer and some idiot will pop up on the treadmill next to me and start a conversation. Because, everyone wants to have a chat while they are running a half marathon.
Robk:
@RachelDID - Yeah happens to me too. Usually some Chinese guy (a trainer more than not) comes and tries to talk to me while I am trying to push it to 100%.
It's like... umm... screw off k?
The trainers will also try to correct me and give me their sparkling advice while I am trying to do 10 reps of the max weight on a machine. I stop, look at them... and say...
"Okay show me.."
*They proceed to try and move the pin near the top...
"No thanks, show me with the same weight I am using."
"But I can't..."
"Then why you trying to give me advice?"
I have a philosophy about work. I turn up early. I dress neatly. I do my job to the best of my ability. I don't bother myself about what other people are doing as that's not my job. I go home.
They only time I concern myself with other people's jobs is when their inability to do their job affects my ability to do my job. I will then politely inform them of their shortcomings.
If someone wants to work for free then good for them. I couldn't give a fuck.
I find it rotates as to who the flavour of the month is and who gets asked to do extra crap. I never do.
I totally see where the OP is coming from and I'm surprised by a lot of the negative reaction. On the one hand, going the extra mile and working hard to do more than the bare minimum at one's job is good for your job stability and prospects of getting a promotion. There's nothing wrong with it at all. However, if you're in a job where there's no chance of that extra effort being rewarded, you're basically giving your employer free labor and probably wont' even get a thank you for it, let alone a promotion or a raise. Although he comes off as kind of arrogant and condescending at times, I almost entirely agree with Expatlife26 on this one. Most ESL teachers have no room for promotions and the extra effort is better put into getting more hours and compensation than on doing a bunch of busy work behind the scenes to help your employer but get you nothing in return. However, I don't hold it against these people or resent them for it. I just think they're foolish for not looking out for themselves and their own best interests. I want to give 2 examples.
1. A guy who basically did a bunch of managerial work that he was not paid extra for: including interviewing and hiring, setting up schedules, observing new teachers' classes and other admin work. He got paid the same as regular teachers but was hoping to take over day to day management for the headmaster when the headmaster relocated to his home country. Not surprisingly, the headmaster's Chinese wife's brother ended up taking over the school instead and the foreigner whom I mentioned left the school on bad terms, feeling he should have been put in charge of things in the headmaster's absence. Now this foreigner also had some of his own issues that I won't go into in detail here but he put in a LOT of extra work that he got nothing in return for. However, he used that experience to leverage his way into a legitimate management job at a large chain in another city where he now makes significantly more than a typical teacher. So while his work initially paid no dividends, the experience did help him move up the career ladder (which is possible in ESL though not in most cases).
2. Guy a know who works at a public school that is run horribly - he has to do TONS of admin work because the administrators are incompetent buffoons. He spent 8 hours last Sunday setting up computers because the actual computer guy didn't know how to do his job. He could've spent those 8 hours legally doing outside work (that his school approves of) or enjoying a day off but he had to clean up other people's mess instead without even a thank you or the chance of furthering his career in any way. He has to do stuff like this all the time. In that case, I basically agree that the extra work is pointless and not furthering his interests. Like expatlife26 says, why not put the effort into increasing his income legally?
morget:
Thanks for understanding. Number one is an extremely valid point and I would entirely support a teacher doing extra because of career ambitions in ESL.
The guy in number two sounds like a moron. Maybe I am just selfish and have no heart, but hey at the end of the day I know it's all about the money for English school owners in China.
While I understand where the OP is coming from, I don't really agree.
So you have a new, eager beaver who came here to teach for a year, have an experience he'll always remember,possibly figure out what he wants to do with his life, do something rewarding and challenging and all that feel good stuff, maybe get some work and life experience he can put on the resume.
Well, he's doing it. If he's here for a year he probably didn't come for the money, he came for the other reasons..
Ok he's not being paid for it and he's probably being taken advantage of but so what? Would it make a difference if he was being paid? Not all compensation is monetary, if he gets whatever he wants out of it then to my mind that's the same as being in cash.
No offense Morget, but how can you hold it against someone when they take as much from the job as they can, just not in cold cash?
morget:
Because, as someone else has stated here, it lowers my bargaining power. If something is deemed extremely important that must be done outside of contracted hours, but no teachers agree to do it without compensation then the school will be forced to pay, as they should.
Englteachted:
" Not all compensation is monetary,"
So true and too many people have not matured enough to realize this.
I worked with a couple of teachers that would never do anything extra for students unless they got paid for it. I on the other hand told them if I was free and they gave me advanced notice I'd do it. Helped with some of their contests, English corners and even tutored a few of them CET4, BEC or just to get them up to speed to pass their class. I learned so much from those experiences. Those private tutoring sessions taught me a lot about how Chinese students process information, what incorrect information their chinese teachers tell them. The contests inspired me to create some of my best projects. All of which has helped me to become a better teacher especially when I private teach for pay.
And here's the most important thing. Whenever I'm in a language bind I have about 50 former students that I can call/ message for help. Those same teachers would always whine and complain about not being able to deal with banks, doctors, buying stuff on Taobao and the like. The irony was lost on them, they would actually want the FAO or a student to help them for free if they had to get glasses or even one wanted help to order in a new restaurant.
They are stupid, China is all about money and I don't see any reason to waste my time to help ungrateful employers. As someone said above they might be looking for promotion, newcomers are not aware that there exist a glass ceiling for Foreign Teachers in the ESL industry in China, there are only a few ways you can break it and that means playing the game that Chinese play.
-Open your own school/training center, on promotion insist that it is owned by a foreigner, you will get countless students in no time and Chinese owners can't compete with that.
-Only do private tuition (spouse visa holders), you can charge a lot more money, even 10 students for 1 class if you charge 150 each that's 1500RMB for like 1h30, no training center or international school will ever pay that much in China.
-Be a middle-man, collect commissions from schools or other teachers for introducing them to each other, monthly based commissions require a written agreement to ensure payment and enforce it if necessary.
-The classic guanxi network, if you know the right people they will introduce you to better offers.
Shining_brow:
However... I knew a guy who did all sorts of things for nix.
Got himself flights back home and other trips around the place.... including the hotels etc.
It can work both ways,
I can not speak about the teacher you have a problem with. But, for me and my co-teachers, we do an English Corner every lunch period. yes. During our lunch period. We spend an hour a day with the kids. And, we do it without any additional compensation. Why? Because we have a passion for teaching and for the success of our kids. We saw that the kids needed additional training in a different setting than the 70+ kids per classroom. So, we decided to devote some time to it. If you do not have the passion for teaching and enjoy what you are doing here in China, then maybe it is time to leave. I have been here for three years. I love my job and I love the kids I get to work for. It is a true PASSION. I work 25 hours a week. Far less than the 50 hours I was working in the USA. So, it is no sweat to put in some extra effort in something that I love to do.
Robk:
That's a good attitude. If you love what you are doing, nobody can put you down for it.
If I see a cleaner that looks like he hates his job... it shines through and it makes him look that much worse. If he loves it and owns it, he will get all the respect he deserves.
And most importantly, he will respect himself.
Same goes for ESL teachers, CEOs, or any job for that matter.
dongbeiren:
Right on, I'm also very generous with my time to students who actually care and want to go the extra mile. I will take plenty of time out of my busy schedule to meet with students one to one to go over their work when the students show real initiative. That can be very rewarding whether or not there's monetary compensation. Nothing wrong with caring about your job and your students - but it's also true that sometimes cleaning up others' messes repeatedly will lead to situations where you're taken advantage of. There's a difference between helping students out and doing administrators' jobs for them.
morget:
This might be a little counterintuitive to the point you're trying to make, but if you really cared for these students why bother supporting the school who puts 70 children in an English classroom just to exploit them (and you) for money?
morget:
Oh, and another point on the school exploiting you... Classes only have ten students at my private English school. Are you being paid seven times more than me? Not a chance. Now, you are running an English corner free of charge for the school that is already exploiting you. Look at the big picture. Wake up.
Morget: You can remain in the negative zone and feel miserable about your life experience here in China. It is ok. Many are like you here. You can wallow in your pity party all day every day.
I choose to remian positive. I love my job. I love what I do. I love many thing here in China. And the things I do not like, I refuse to let it eat at my personality and character. I have always had broad shoulders and roll with the punches that life throws at me. I am not here for money and ego. I am here because I want to be here. i am here to teach the future of China. I am here because it is an exciting life I am living. I will not be brought down to your level by people like you.
So, drink yourself silly. Continue to lie to yourself that you belong here. I really have no use for people like you in my life, even if it is on an internet site. You go on living your life the way you want. And, I will live my life. I assure you that I am much happier and better off than you could ever be in your current position in life.
fada:
You are a schools wet dream. Lots of uncompensated work, you know they are charging the parents more for your little lunch break teaching sessions right?
morget:
I am not miserable, depressed, or a drunk. It's good to know you are enjoying your current state of affairs, but I'll continue to press forward with legitimate questions regarding fair compensation and the cash cow that is ESL in China. I won't hide my head in the sand and pretend everything is rainbows and butterflies. Suit yourself.
Eorthisio:
@fada -> Shhh don't tell him that, also don't tell him about how much the headmaster earns in hongbao every semester, don't forget the local teachers who when a student fails his test can "fix" the problem for a generous red envelope, and especially do not let him know that not a single person in the school beside him and his foreign crew gives a damn about education.
nashboroguy:
At least we care about the students and their education. It is why we are here. Our team at our school could care less about Chinese money and corruption. We are making a difference when and where we can. Our salaries are in the top tier of what ESL teachers are paid. But, money is not the most important thing in life and it is not the main reason we are here in China. We are changing things where we can. And, the students are better for it. You can bitch and moan all you want about the situation. While you do, you are not making any changes. You are not helping anyone. And, you are miserable in your life for your thoughts, opinions, and non-actions. It must be very sad to live in your life with that kind of thinking. Perhaps it is time to return to greener pastures and head out of China. You are obviously not happy with your conditions here. There is no doubt that there are major problems in China. But, that can be said in any country. It is how you deal with those issues that makes the difference. I am not sure you could be satisfied anywhere you live. You have such a negative view that you apparently can never see positive things around you. Some people like you can bitch all day. Others are here and making a difference and making changes where we can.
This is not an ESL thing, it is true of any workplace. People will go above and beyond to get ahead, and people who refuse to do anything that is not strictly written out in their contract...will be seen as those who will only rise to the bare minimum. It is a good thing to challenge yourself, acquire new skills, and develop good relationships.
The idiots that I have a problem with are the ones who undercut the rest of the market by working for pittances.
This is probably a troll but I'm going to answer anyway. Interviewing potential candidates is something I did for for my previous school but not for free. I offered to do it because I was sick and tired of them hiring any asshole just because of his skin color. Their incompetence brought trouble to my door step.
Just because a school is poorly run doesn't mean the people running are complete cheats . I'm currently pondering helping a school I deal with find a teacher because I'm sick of what they keep bringing in. When we are not working we share an office, if they hire a nut then work becomes seriously unpleasant. Using lessons that are shitty also creates an unhappy work environment. Improving the school's fortunes can improve the teacher's fortune as well.
So if someone goes above and beyond to help make the school better I don't care either way. It is their choice and I will not let it change or affect me. Only a witless loser turns into a competition for 'affection'.
OP. Also keep in mind that many Americans are quite charitable and are open to a volunteerism even within the bounds of employed work. The USA is ranked in the top 5 for charity and volunteerism. Maybe nashboroguy is an American...
nashboroguy:
Yes I am. But, my co-worers are from Australia and Ireland. So, I am not sure your assumption is completely accurate. And, there are plenty of stingy Americans who are like Chinese and worship money as a god. My co-workers and I just have come to the conclusion that money is not the most important thing in life. We do what we do because we care for the students we are teaching and love what we are doing here in China. I may not be a wealthy man. But, I am a very rich man. I prefer riches over wealth any day.
