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Q: How do you think?
Today My bf and I were out buying some vegetable.One woman told me my English is good and then she asked me if I have CET8.I told only CET4.She then told how come I can speak English when I do not have the CET8 certificate.
When my old friend knows my bf is a white guy.She told I got a special taste.I told she is rude.
"How do you think?"
It's a complicated process involving electrochemical signals between neurons in my brain.
I'm guessing your way is different.
What is the question ?
Victoria, this is a forum to ask and answer questions about life in China, mainly for foreigners.
you don't even have a question this time.
Are you that bored ?
Hulk:
I think her English is preventing her from asking the appropriate question, "What do you think about my English?"
But this forum is for expats and Chinese alike.
sorrel:
fair point about this being a forum for ex-pats and foreigners alike.
But
this has the 'deja-vu' feeling of a Victoria validation 'question'
http://answers.echinacities.com/question/why-many-chinese-are-so-judging
Victoria1987:
Sorrel and Hulk.Both of you are here just for making troubles.You two should be a couple.The same level people should be together.And sorrel,I am actually do not think you have a sucessful career.If you do,I guess it would be pretty easy for you to hunt good paid job in new york city if you call yourself career successed person.Can you easily get a manager job in New york or not?lol. A lot of peope gave better career advices than you.But they do not call themselves career sucessed even they could be much better than both you and me.Sorrel,you are too arrogant.
sorrel:
Victoria
thank you for judging me again: you comments are always insightful to your character.
I am not American, but i am an IELTS examiner here in China, and in demand as an IELTS trainer
i just wanted to know what your question this time was.
Spiderboenz:
Dear God, Vicky, your posts are breaking my "English" to English translator.
Hulk:
Vicky, sorrel and I are a couple. We engage in frequent pornhole exploration & investigation. Usually I'm on the receiving end. Do you have a problem with this?
Victoria1987:
Hulk you are one kind of loser who always on the forum causing troubles for ppl.Well,you lost,I am not so angry,just find something to relax my brain after a tired long day office work.lol.You are indeed a drama material.I would like to hear more about your unborn bastard babies.
She was lying to you. Your English is passable AT BEST.
Spiderboenz:
HAHAHAAHAHAHAHA! Please ignore my hystefical, derisive laughter, Vicky.
Victoria1987:
Go away you mean person.My bf told my English is good among Chinese.
Spiderboenz:
I've met 10 year old Chinese students that had better command of the English language than you do. I'm not mean, I'm honest.
Hulk:
Who names their kid, "my English is good among Chinese."?
Hello, my name is my English is good among Chinese. Nice to meet you.
"How do you think?"
It's a complicated process involving electrochemical signals between neurons in my brain.
I'm guessing your way is different.
I made research of your written text, and my machine replied your CET is around 6.9.
This is web link I used:
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/
.....so, girl on the outside market was right!
On another occasion, I saw graffiti:
'Wive me, dine me, 69 me.....' BuTT....that was at the different occasion
You can speak English?
EDIT: p.s. if you stumble upon this in the distant future, open up and look at the comments for *this* answer. It will be worth it.
coineineagh:
Vicky, you and your BF just guaranteed that this will be voted highest comment. I told thank him for your fuck! How was it for you?
Hulk:
Well? We're waiting. Tell us.
What did your boyfriend say to "Fuck You"? And by the way, who the hell names their kid "Fuck You"?
sorrel:
if Victoria is telling her her bf about comments on this site, i sincerely hope for her sake he doesn't read it.
Victoria1987:
He knows what I am writting on the forum,also about he owned me money before.I am not worries.He is not that narrow minded as I can see now.Slut sorrel
Visco8:
Victoria ~ I like you ! Don't worry about these other people trying to make themselves look important. I get where you are coming from, even tho your english isn't perfect. Cheers..
Would you like to repost this and actually ask a question this time. I think what you meant to ask was "What Do You Think". What do you expect anyone to think about an inane conversation with someone else over your level of English and choice of boyfriends. Why would it matter what anyone else thinks, other than yourself. I think Samsara's last sentence has it nailed.
I listen to what my little friend thinks, if I do not then I have regrets.
I gave you thumb up for entertainment 
Scandinavian:
yet you provide no entertainment yourself in this particular post. shame on you, punish yourself by drinking a big glass of cold malt-juice.
I think your English is a bit worse than my wife's, but since I've known you for a while, I can say it was much better than hers until she came to America and learned more. Your English needs to improve.
Practice here, with foreign friends, and, if you managed to snag yourself a western boyfriend, clear your browser history and practice with him. You don't want him to know that you post here.
Victoria1987:
I have interviews in both western and Chinese companies.But all of them are amazed by my English.My bf and his American friends told my English is good.But for some words,I need improving on the pronounciation.I do not think your wife's English is better than mine.I have been studing English for many years and I have been doing English job for almost 5 years.I do not have CET8,if my English is worser than the majority,I won't get hired easily in Shanghai.I impressed them with English before I told them I only have CET4,in this way,many companies hired me finally. PS:I saw your wife.She is not that good as you told.Deep inside and the outside looking.
Spiderboenz:
How do I put this... A man will say whatever he has to to be able to continue having sex with someone. "Yes dear, the sky is actually purple and cats communicate through their tails. You are so smart to teach me that."
Hulk:
My wife's English has improved dramatically. It's much better than yours. Her grammar is really good now.
And you've seen my wife? She's not as good as I said she is? At what? Deep inside and the outside looking? What the hell does that mean? My wife is beautiful, but you, on the other hand, look worse than a dog. You look like a man. =/
Victoria1987:
Every man who has the eyes know you have an ordinary looking wife.lol.Learning lanuage needs long way to run.Not some girl just married an American and moved to American not a long time ago can be called good English speaker.Are you done with your drama?Hulk.I understand she is beautiful in your eyes because you love her But for most men,seriously I don't think she is a beauty.Speaking of deep inside,she is kind of narrow minded.When I was talking on the reality,she kicked me out from your QQ because she told she didn't want you to get my negative throughts.All my friend will never tell that I am negative.I am quite socializing in my daily life actually and live my life in the reality world.Or she was just using this as an excuse since many stupid girls jelous too much.I do not care if my bf hangs out with femal friends.lol.I respect him as a person,nothing like your wife did.You and your wife make me feel like two kids are making dramas. I would feel bad to tell a husband that his wife is not that good.But it is your own fault for me to tell that.Because you and your wife has been rude and mean to me.Don't blame on me for saying those words. My boyfriend told you and many of those people are fool here.But not so bad to get my English practiced here.lol...Olala^^ PS:Get rid of your addiction to your religion will make you more open minded.Now you are living like a stupid society robot can't have the smart conversation. Besides she is a young girl who just married after finishing university.Some jobs might make her open minded.I personally can't find many smart conversation with school girls lack of social experiences.
Chinese people are rude in every way, in every situation. Especially regarding those who step outside the norms of Chinese traditions.
You should know this.
Victoria1987:
The day before yesterday I went to have the dinner with boss's mother.Because I did not like eatting chicken claw and some other things with many bones in.She stared at me with anger.I do not understand why she did not know how to respect what I did not like to eat.
Spiderboenz:
Yes, because there's no way that you said or did anything that could be considered ride or offensive while you were there.
Your English is generally very understandable. Now of course on this forum we can only comment on the written part. For instance when I am talking to my wifes mother, sometimes if there is some words that don't work in speak, a piece of paper and some quick scribbling usually solves that.
In the long run, what certificate you have doesn't matter, its how much you've used a language. I actually have 6 years of French from school, but as I never used it much, it's pretty much useless today. I can read it, I can understand it, but building a grammatically correct sentence I cannot do during a conversation.
You boyfriend would be the best judge of your English (he is a native English speaker right)
And, you probably do have a special taste in men, commenting on that, well, not sure I find it rude as such, on the other hand, its none of her business.
Victoria1987:
I think language comes from a real life.Which not a certificate can say everything.People who has the brain will not just believe in certificate.
Shining_brow:
I'll disagree on the BF comment - he's probably gotten used to it (as well all have), and thus he won't be the 'best judge' (and, probably not an honest or objective one).
However, unless his Chinese is ok, they're probably communicating in English, so at least it indicates some ability.
Victoria1987:
My bf is a good judger.He told my Englush is good,just some prounciation on words are not correct.Besides my bf is an English teacher for teaching international students.
Shining_brow:
"My bf is a good judge(r)*. He told me that my English is good( - ) just that some pronunciation of words are not correct.( ) Besides, my bf is an English teacher who teaches international students."
3 sentences - all with errors. Basic grammatical structures, poor punctuation. I don't know whether "international students" means students in an international school, Chinese students looking to go overseas, the international college at a university, or foreign students studying here (studying English??), so I've left it.
No, you're English is not 'good', it's passable! By IELTS public band descriptors, you're averaging about 5.0-5.5. (www.ielts.org/PDF/UOBDs_WritingT2.pdf) Your BF is just being kind to you (as we often do).
(*'judger' is not an English word)
icnif77:
@Shining: isn't 'judger' similar to 'painter'?
She passed 'my' test. Leave her alone!
Shining_brow:
@icnif... sorry - no cigar. A person who judges is called a 'judge' :)
if she didn't start a thread to basically say "Gee I'm great - people think my English is 'good'", then I would leave her (English) alone. But, being an Aussie, I have that bloodline trait called 'Tall Poppy Syndrome', in which anyone who, in effective, gloats - must be cut down.
Victoria1987:
Everybody has the typing error.I did mistakes on my Mandrine as well.Does it mean my Madrine is bad?I have beated so many job applicants for doing English jobs in Shanghai.If I am on the average level,I do not believe it.I might be on the average or below average level compares to native English speaker.But I don't think I am average among non-native English speakers.
icnif77:
@Shining: 'am I that bad, you took it 'seriously'?
I'm sure, I got higher CET score than you! Check my UK web link above. It's very short test! My CET number is 'no more O2 in Fuk.'. What's yours? O2
Scandinavian:
@Victoria: Small correction. The Chinese language is called "Mandarin" in English I believe a "Mandarine" is a small orange, although it can also be called "Mandarin Orange"
Scandinavian:
@Shinning: Aren't you being a bit harsh. I completely understand going after those who say they are English teachers yet have poor grammar. Vicky is not a teacher and I think if you look at her post history, you will see an improvement. Sure it is not perfect English, but it is very understandable (I'd say above country average)
Shining_brow:
@ Scandinavian - 'harsh'? Do you mean in my judgement of her English level, or in my comments about 'she boasted, I roasted'?
As for how her English compares to... IELTS or to the rest of the country, or... Unfortunately, as fare as IELTS would concerned (as per the public band descriptors linked above), no, she hasn't shown good enough English skills in her writing to score very high - in fact, about average for all Chinese IELTS test takers (as per IELTS.org - countries' averages). .. China's average is 5.3 in Writing. "understanding what you're trying to say' isn't the only pre-requisite. Most of them (80%+) are English majors at university, or have been studying the language for a number of years (usually, by the time they take the test, over 8 years). They're usually taking the test to go overseas, for study or a job. 90%+ score less than 7.0. More than 80% score less than 6.0. Victoria's currently sitting at about a 5.5. (I tutor for IELTS, and teach A-levels, IFY and Pre-master's program students - this is my job!)
Compared to the country... well, given that 30% of the country don't even speak their
own national language, I don't think it's really a great achievement!
As for Shanghaiese thinking her English sounds good... if you sound confident, and can string a sentence or 2 together (fluency), then yes, you'll sound good to almost anyone... it fools a lot of people! They seem to forget things like grammar, and don't bother with actually seeing how much they can say (ie, limited vocab). My best Chinese friend hated English, and it was only in the 2 years he spent with me and my fellow teachers that his English was useable.. His grammar still sucks, and his vocab limited (fortunately, we native speakers use a small vocabulary... we just use it differently - same for any native speaker of a language). And yet, he also scored a job in Shanghai! And, he isn't scoring above 5.5 either!!
If you mean, I'm harsh for picking on her English.... this is her thread for boasting. She thinks she's good. I think she's not. Welcome to the real world! (not you, Scandi ;-) )
Btw, in my part of the world, a mandarin is also a fruit like an orange - same spelling.
icnif77:
'thread' or 'tread'? ButT, you probably misspelled…Traveller or Shining?
Silly Vic, that's not how you spell "PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!"
Victoria - on this board there are a number of professional language teachers. Some of them are quite qualified, and very experienced. Not only do they teach, but they also have to examine. And, I'm willing to bet, there are a number of professional examiners as well (IELTS, TOEFL, PET).
NO-ONE has yet said your English is 'good'. Spider suggested your English is 'passable', which is about what I'd give it, too.
When we read what you have to say, we have to translate... we need to look through the grammatical errors, the lack of necessary words, the poor punctuation, the lack of logic and coherence, the inappropriate words (and word forms). However, ESL teachers who have been in China for a while have gotten used to this, and we have some idea of what you're trying to say (although, not always!)
Your choice is now - believe us... or believe what some woman in the market said... (and, what's her experience and training in English???)
RE: CET... is there a more meaningless piece of paper in the world? (well, other than the Chinese law books... and that map of land boundaries?) Vrtually ALL of my previous university students have CET or TEM, and none of them have 'good' English skills.
However, as my best Chinese friend discovered, who hated English in school and university, and constantly failed the tests... now lives overseas, using his English to sell stuff to the locals there! He got interested in us teachers, and started having chats... and, he got better! That's where you're at... (and, btw, he also got a job in Shanghai... he wasn't an English major either)
Shining_brow:
and that was way too long a reply for replying to a troll..... :(
Victoria1987:
Oh yeah.Those ppl in Shanghai are fool.They hired an English passable girl among those applicants from top universities.You are the smarest person like spider.Hmmm,you and spider should work for FBI.
sorrel:
As an IELTS examiner and trainer 
I have coached students to improve their scores by up to 1.5 points
Spiderboenz:
Eh, I've done enough governmental work already, no thanks.
Victoria1987:
Maybe just a small position in the government.It is not really worthy to speak of it.
Spiderboenz:
If by "small" you mean part of a small, highly specialized group, then yes.
I don't understand why you guys keep feeding the troll.
And this one is hungrier than most... and seems hungry for something else.
she only comes here for attention. maybe you guys are bored?
your english is terrible.
not like anyone cares, but you asked for it.
you have tons of writing mistakes. CET is a joke in china anyways... had a chinese assistant with a master degree in english and i could barely understand her.
don't fool yourself, nowadays there are millions of chinese who speak very good english already. Even in the "small" city where i live, many girls in your age speak good english. Hence even the waitresses can speak proper english.
English is nothing special. You need other skills to be successful, especially in some years. The value of english decreases in career chances
Vicky why do you respect your boyfriends opinion when you said a few weeks ago that he needs to borrow your money to buy vegetables? And then he is too stupid to buy vegetables and he goes to a restaurant.
I think you are not a good judger. You trust him when he tells you your english is good so that you will continue to give him dirty vagina and money for vegetables.
We dont want vagina or your money so why would we lie?
Shining_brow:
I think you missed something, Mike... I believe there was only 1 vegetable being sought for procurement.
Victoria1987:
Who the hell you are calling at?Dirty virgina?Watch out your phase you dirty person. PS:He gave my money back.Who the hell you are judging?
mike695ca:
Does your poor boyfriend with no shame know you were complaining about him taking your money on here? You should tell him!
In this thread: perfect proof of the old adage, "Women fake orgasms to have relationships. Men fake relationships to have orgasms."
As a non native English speaker,I have been learning English for years and I am still working on it.It's always good to have someone who's willing to correct your mistakes,In that way, you can learn from the mistake you have made and avoid it next time.
I was told by people that my English is pretty good when I was in China,even in Australia when I talk to people,but I do know that If I want to catch up with native English speakers,I have a long way to go.
Frankly speaking,You really need to work on your GRAMMAR If You wanna improve your English.
Good luck.
Victoria1987:
I know my English is not good compare to those native English speakers.Which my bf told the same,but he told mine is good among non English speakers.I do thhink he is honest with me.I do agree with you,maggie,you told the truth this time.But it is good to remind me like my bf does.But many ppl on this forum they seem like insulting ppl,I do not really think my English is terrible even I can't catch up with the the native speakers,just has a long way to go compares to the native speakers,but also me and you can nver really catch up with those native speakers who were born in speaking English.
sorrel:
Maggie is honest, as are many of us.
She accepts the challenges of learning a different and living with a different language with courtesy. 
It has to do with your response to posters here: insults beget insults, courtesy brings respect and help.
Which you get depends on the way you deal with the comments.
Not all the comments are insulting, but your comments can change the tone of the conversation.
You might not agree with the content of the posts, but if they are courteous and polite, there is no need to response in a hostile manner.
Shining_brow:
I'm not comparing you to native English speakers - I'm comparing you to NNS - Germans, French, Italians, Nigerians, Kenyans, Brazilians, Mexicans, Koreans, Japanese, Filipinos etc etc. There are many posters on this board who are not native English speakers. Scandi, Sorrel, Icnif, to name a few. There are many non-native IELTS examiners, too.
The statistics I quoted above are from the IELTS worldwide webpage!
Maggie's English is quite clearly much better than Vicky's. Vicky's English is 'good' compared to a few million of 'terrible'. This does not equal 'good' in general!
And that's my professional, qualified, and experienced opinion!
Deal with it!
(Oooh - I just had a thought for a new research project... "What do Chinese speakers of English really think of their English ability?" Maybe I can make that my thesis topic....)
Victoria1987:
Sorrel,like my bf said.Who you are to judge?You are just some non native English speaker and my bf is a native English speaker on his English literature master degree.He is someone who does not just have degree,he reads books everyday and help me correct my English every time.I do think someone likes him is being nice.And you are somebody who is so fake and pretent you were a saint after everytime insulted ppl.And you were very arrogant and told you have the sucessful career.I am the executive now,but I don't think I am professional enough to give people professional career advice,may be just some of my advuces will help ppl .But honestly you are not really better than me,and in a way you make yourself look so professional and start judging me.
lol...What a funny drama you are making?Are you that bored? PS:Many Chinese teacher can improve student's score on IELTS,it does not make them qualified enough to judge people's English because they are just like you,the so called non-native English speakers.As so far as I know,many public schools in big cities of China never will hire non-native English speakers as English trainers or teachers.Besides,people who have the smart brain know that no matter what kind of certificate can't really represent your English lever because certificates have no life,language is coming from the vivid daily life.You make youself looks like certificate worshipper.What a pity of you to become such a society robot.Shining_brow:
"Sorrel,like my bf said.Who you are to judge?"
Sorrel is an IELTS examiner (she has mentioned this before - obviously you missed it!). I think that makes her extremely qualified to judge! Certainly, the British Council, who looks after such things in this country, - and around large parts of the rest of the world thinks she's qualified, and experienced, enough to judge...
If you wish to ignore the advice of someone who ought to know much much better than most other people, that's up to you.
Victoria1987:
If I am stupid enough to belive your English is much better than my bf's.He has more professional certificates than you have.But he never think certificate really matters that much.Are you going to make me laugh?You think you are much better than those native English speakers who are educated?Many of my friends are native English speakers who got good education and manage thiis language very well. You are a arrogant person think yourself is professional enough to judge people's English.
Shining_brow:
Feeding the troll again.....
How would you know what certificates Sorrel (or myself) actually have??
And, as I said, the BRITISH COUNCIL (and Cambridge University) has adjudged that her abilities are good enough to be able to judge someone's English ability. Are you now going to insult them, and suggest that they, and Cambridge University do not know how to determine a person's English ability?
(if, OTOH, you're actually trying to refer to me... hard to tell, your paragraph construction is incoherent - bringing it down to a 4 on the IELTS band - again, you have no idea what qualifications I've got)
Spiderboenz:
A Masters in English Literature? … So, he got a useless degree, couldn't find a job in his home country, and had to come to PRC to teach. Met a woman who "opened up" to him, and will say whatever he needs to keep his pickle wet... But he clearly knows more than people who asses English language capabilities for a living, right?
sorrel:
I think that someone failed to notice that i did not make a comment on the quality/level of English used in the OP.
I just wanted the original question clarified.
I also made a comment regarding answering with courtesy.
Disagreeing with someone does not mean having to resort to name-calling.
Courtesy can be maintained at all times without agreement being reached and loss of dignity.
Victoria1987:
Wow spider you are so mean.Yeah he could not find job back to home which he told me.I think he could not find good job just because he is not very socialling to deal with ppl.Watch out your words,you dirty little mean man.And it have nothing to do with his good English without hunting a good job.At least he is honest with that.The silly thing is you were pretending some body who is working for goverment and make ppl to believe that you are some big people.haha.That is so funny.Finish your drama?Kid? I often heard some foreign trash came here looking for fuck.Now I found out you are this so called fucking guy.Are you that desperately desiring for fucking?lol
Spiderboenz:
Not working, worked. As in PAST tense. You crack me up, girl.
MissA:
Huh? Since when was sorrel a non-native? Surely vicky's just making shit up?
I was going to post some of the banter that took place at the market too
I was going to post some of the banter that took place at the market too
You have new avatar, is the goose significant? You like shaking your money maker, are you using it now?
Why are you bringing up this tread again?
